| Electronics > Repair |
| Charging by the hour is unfair! |
| << < (29/40) > >> |
| David_AVD:
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 02:18:48 pm ---I just want to check how the following scenario works in your mind. I am a bit rubbish at electronics. I have relatively little experience or training. I try to fix things, but I really struggle if I can't find a circuit diagram. Several times I have come across a complex electronic product, and my lack of experience means I cannot identify what each part of a circuit board actually does. I often have to give up on a repair because I just can't work out what is wrong with it. Nevertheless, I rather like the idea of making a living by repairing electronic products. I know I'll do well because I can charge $200 per hour no matter how long it takes me, and I can even charge the same labour rate if I fail to find and fix the fault. So I set myself up as an electronics repair shop. --- End quote --- Of course this a bad situation for the customer, but the market does seem to weed out most businesses that are like this. Sure, it could take a while to happen but you could apply this to most businesses. Reputation and reviews are useful and so much easier to verify these days. |
| vk4ffab:
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 05:33:22 pm --- --- Quote from: MK14 on July 06, 2024, 03:41:07 pm --- --- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 03:36:54 pm ---I've got a theory. My theory is that almost all the respondents on this thread are American. If so, it suggests that the concepts of honour and fair play don't extend across the Atlantic from my country (UK). --- End quote --- At this point, it looks like you are Troll Baiting, in the quoted section, or whatever it should be called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_bait --- End quote --- "I am being paid to work on the customer's product, not to repair it. If it does get repaired, great, we're both happy. But if not, I'm still going to charge the same amount because it's my labour that is being paid for, not the fruits of my labour." To which my response is BULLSHIT! The customer doesn't want your labour, they want the fruits of your labour. Your business model is outrageously unfair on the customer, because you can fail, and fail, and fail again, and still go home every day with another $1,600 in your pocket. It's "Heads I win, tails you lose". Nothing more to say, is there? --- End quote --- In my experience, the way its typically done here (Australia) is, and this is dependent on industry, but assuming electronics repair, is that a repair shop will charge a flat fee for diagnosis, plus repair time and parts on top of that only off the customer agrees to the quoted price. When you bring something in for repair, you are not paying just for labour, you are paying for the skills and knowledge required to diagnose what the problem actually is and then quote on the repair. This covers all bases, customer is knows upfront what their out of pocket will be to find out what the problem is and if its financially viable to repair and then is not hit will bill shock when hit with a repair bill higher than the product is actually worth. I would not take my item for repair to a shop that does not have a fixed service charge to determine what the problem is before any work is undertaken. My mechanic does that, I know that I am up for the equivalent of 1 hours labour for him to diagnose the problem with my car, even if it takes him 4 hours to do so, and then I pay for time and parts after he has quoted me those costs. There is never any bill shock, I know exactly what I am getting before we start. Plumber, electrician etc etc all the same, call out fee to determine scope of works and quote on the actual repair. None of this I will rip everyone off cause i can crap. I would not deal with people like that. |
| fmashockie:
--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 06, 2024, 07:05:31 pm --- Can you please, kindly, fuck off with the personal attacks? You're not furthering your argument, you're only making yourself look look like the asshole here. And the rest of us by association, that we might seem to tolerate or even accept such behavior. I for one see fit to call out such behavior. Steve, for his part, has been nothing but calm and patient with his point. --- End quote --- What thread have you been reading Tim? Here's a few of Steve's quotes. Not including putting words in other member's mouths including my own under the guise of 'paraphrasing': "I've noticed a worrying number of contributors to this thread seem to have the attitude "I'm incredibly smart and wonderful and my time is incredibly valuable (even though I can't fix the appliance), so I'm going to charge the customer the full whack anyway, and they can eat shit" (to paraphrase, obviously!). In other words all the risk is on the customer, none on the technician." - Steve "The arrogance I've seen in this thread has been extraordinary. "If I can't fix it, it can't possibly be because I'm incompetent, it must be the fault of the appliance" seems to embody the attitude of a worrying number of contributors" -Steve "Psycopaths and money-grabbing sociopaths might feel comfortable with that level of arrogance and the complete lack of empathy for the customer, but I don't." -Steve "I've got a theory. My theory is that almost all the respondents on this thread are American. If so, it suggests that the concepts of honour and fair play don't extend across the Atlantic from my country (UK)." -Steve But yea, personal attacks are bad. |
| MK14:
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 05:33:22 pm --- --- Quote from: MK14 on July 06, 2024, 03:41:07 pm --- --- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 06, 2024, 03:36:54 pm ---I've got a theory. My theory is that almost all the respondents on this thread are American. If so, it suggests that the concepts of honour and fair play don't extend across the Atlantic from my country (UK). --- End quote --- At this point, it looks like you are Troll Baiting, in the quoted section, or whatever it should be called. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_bait --- End quote --- Don't be boring by banging on about trolling. It's very tedious. If you've got nothing constructive to say, then please don't say anything. The grown-ups are having a conversation, so don't interrupt. I actually do think there is a cultural difference between the US and the UK when it comes to business practices. I am not being facetious. I think there is a much clearer and simpler attitude to profit in the US. Making a profit is considered honourable and reasonable, and even laudable. In the UK there is still a hint of "dishonour" or "greedy" about it. We are just slightly uncomfortable with the idea of profit. The distinction between making a profit and profiteering is paper-thin on this side of the pond. I think there is another cultural difference, too, around individualism. The US is far ahead of the UK in terms of individualism, and individuals looking out primarily for themselves. Making a profit from failure (as I've been talking about above) seems to be morally OK in the US, because the culture is all about putting yourself first. Others are responsible for their own success and well-being. It's not your job to look after someone who struggles to look after themselves. Since 1979 (when Thatcher was made Prime Minister) Britain has been on a journey away from collectivism, towards individualism. We've a way to go before we catch up with the US, but we are certainly going that way. Old bastards like me remember the time before Thatcher and regret the growth of individualism. Maybe this is why I might be instinctively more reluctant to make a customer pay when I haven't repaired their product. I don't know, maybe I'm talking crap. ---- Well, guys, I think I'm about talked out, and I have learned a lot from you all and taken on board many of your arguments. The one I simply cannot move on with a clear conscience is this (which I still find astonishing and hard to believe): "I am being paid to work on the customer's product, not to repair it. If it does get repaired, great, we're both happy. But if not, I'm still going to charge the same amount because it's my labour that is being paid for, not the fruits of my labour." To which my response is BULLSHIT! The customer doesn't want your labour, they want the fruits of your labour. Your business model is outrageously unfair on the customer, because you can fail, and fail, and fail again, and still go home every day with another $1,600 in your pocket. It's "Heads I win, tails you lose". Your argument that "market forces" will weed out the numpties isn't much help to those poor customers, though, is it? And if repairers are in short supply, market forces don't come into play. It is also astonishingly arrogant to believe that your time is worth $200 per hour even when you've no clue what you're doing. That's what happens when a computer expert gets an audio amp to fix. You'll still charge $200 per hour, won't you? We both know you will. Anyway, we've hit the buffers on this debate and I've come away saddened by the arrogance some people have expressed ("I'm worth $200 per hour whether I know what I'm doing or not") and some people's lack of empathy for the customer ("Fix or no fix, you owe me $1600 for the day I spent poking at your audio amp and hoping for the best"). Nothing more to say, is there? --- End quote --- It's been tricky for me to reply to your post, but I will try. "Don't be boring by banging on about trolling. It's very tedious. If you've got nothing constructive to say, then please don't say anything. The grown-ups are having a conversation, so don't interrupt." Seems to be accusing me of going or being off-topic. Yet, the rest of your post, seems to be a long political or similar post, with little to do, with the thread topic. If my quick glances at it, indicate correctly. Given that you seem to have the UK flag set, and be talking and trying to sound like someone from the UK. How come, all your prices are in dollars ($), e.g. see the post I just quoted. Is that a Freudian slip-up, or is there another explanation? |
| bookaboo:
Pretty sure the OP is a troll, but the thread reminds me of something I heard quipped during a supplier-customer debate about costs. The supplier who was being pressed to write off large swathe of labour retorted: "All these other people you know who work for free, bring them to me for I have work aplenty for them" |
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