Electronics > Repair
Charging by the hour is unfair!
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tooki:

--- Quote from: T3sl4co1l on July 06, 2024, 07:05:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on July 06, 2024, 02:28:00 pm ---A paranoid schizophrenic who is suffering from delusions doesn’t realize they’re delusions, either. Yet objectively, they are.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: tooki on July 06, 2024, 02:33:22 pm ---Your contrived situations of dishonest, untrained rip-off artists do nothing to validate your point. But they do make you look like a disingenuous crank.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: tooki on July 06, 2024, 06:32:07 pm ---Here we go again with your idiotic contrived situation. We established early on in the thread that EXPERTS can charge higher rates because of their expertise and experience. Nobody here except you is ever claiming that an incompetent technician is worth that.

--- End quote ---

Can you please, kindly, fuck off with the personal attacks?

You're not furthering your argument, you're only making yourself look look like the asshole here.  And the rest of us by association, that we might seem to tolerate or even accept such behavior.  I for one see fit to call out such behavior.

Steve, for his part, has been nothing but calm and patient with his point.  Insistent, unable to (or refusing to) reach or explain a common point of reference, but not "schizophrenic".  At worst, "troll", an accusation first raised by myself, and I stick to the reasoning given therewith: to the extent that reasoning applies, it's a factual statement, not a personal attack.  That's exactly as far as I meant to go with it, and no excuse for anyone else to go further.  It is certainly not reason to make it personal.

--- End quote ---
Only one of those three quotes contains anything that might be construed a personal attack, but even that one says “makes you look like a disingenuous crank”, not “you are a disingenuous crank”.

I never called him schizophrenic. I was simply illustrating via analogy that a person suffering from a delusion doesn’t know it’s a delusion.

And it’s the contrived situation that I called idiotic, not him.

As for his behavior, fmashockie covered that aspect pretty well.

P.S. And I see fit to call out OP’s behavior.
PlainName:

--- Quote --- some concrete way to maintain your privacy
--- End quote ---

Not at all (particularly since I've explicitly mentioned it many times). But every little helps, and "perfect is the enemy of good".

Oh, and  PlainName is my real name, kind of, if you move the letters about a bit. Maybe substitute a couple.
SteveThackery:

--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---But when you start assuming that because we do not advocate for "no fix, no fee" that we somehow lack empathy for the customer....

--- End quote ---

I stand by that assumption.  Many posters frothed with incredulous outrage at the very idea that "no fix/no fee" should EVER be considered. So yes, if you are one of those outraged posters who believes there are NO circumstances that justify no fix/no fee, I think you DO lack empathy for the customer.


--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---...or that we approve of anyone ripping customers off by selecting any hourly/fixed rate they want without the expertise/skill to back it up, then you're being an asshole.  And that is exactly what you were doing.

--- End quote ---

I was using the well-known technique of the "logical conclusion" to illustrate that even when a position might seem reasonable at first glance, the "logical conclusion" highlights that it is actually morally bereft and profoundly selfish (for example), or based on a fallacy (for example), or is simply illogical (for example).

I'm surprised I'm having to explain this to you, it being such a common tool to illuminate the dark corners of a stance someone has taken.  But if it wasn't, then it's my fault and I apologise.


--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---You stated several times that you think "no fix, no fee" is fair as long as the customer is aware beforehand that is a possible outcome.  And that is exactly what people who work independently stated they do! 

--- End quote ---

You've got yourself into an pickle here.  I've been advocating for "no fix/no fee" from the very beginning, against enormous resistance, it must be said.  I reluctantly but genuinely conceded that the opposite: "fee/no fix", might be justifiable if the customer is warned in advance.


--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---It wasn't until you started being a dick by putting words in our mouths, quoting/paraphrasing wildly incorrectly, and throwing insults that people started calling you a troll.

--- End quote ---

I haven't insulted a single person, have I?  (Apart from any scumbag who called me a troll.) 

I also don't believe I've put words in mouths or misquoted anyone EXCEPT when doing the "logical conclusion" stuff to illustrate that the principle underlying someone's reasonable-sounding statement may actually be wrong/immoral/logically flawed/etc.

Clearly I got it wrong if so many people didn't realise what I was doing and why.  I thought the "logical conclusion" technique was so obvious and commonly used it didn't need any introduction.  I'm sorry for getting that wrong.


--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 12:43:00 pm ---You do realize that there's a little flag next to each member's name with the country they are from?

--- End quote ---

Ooooh, no, I had no idea - I'd never even noticed the little flags.  What a plonker!  😂
tooki:

--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 07, 2024, 03:02:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---But when you start assuming that because we do not advocate for "no fix, no fee" that we somehow lack empathy for the customer....

--- End quote ---

I stand by that assumption.  Many posters frothed with incredulous outrage at the very idea that "no fix/no fee" should EVER be considered. So yes, if you are one of those outraged posters who believes there are NO circumstances that justify no fix/no fee, I think you DO lack empathy for the customer.

--- End quote ---
No, what we objected to with incredulity is your assertion that “no fix, no fee” is the only model that’s acceptable.

We have acknowledged repeatedly that some service providers do choose that model, and explained to you the ramifications of that model, including how it is unfair to the customers whose repairs subsidize the “no fix, no fee” customers.
fzabkar:

--- Quote from: tooki on July 07, 2024, 03:31:19 pm ---
--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 07, 2024, 03:02:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 07, 2024, 01:13:36 pm ---But when you start assuming that because we do not advocate for "no fix, no fee" that we somehow lack empathy for the customer....

--- End quote ---

I stand by that assumption.  Many posters frothed with incredulous outrage at the very idea that "no fix/no fee" should EVER be considered. So yes, if you are one of those outraged posters who believes there are NO circumstances that justify no fix/no fee, I think you DO lack empathy for the customer.

--- End quote ---
No, what we objected to with incredulity is your assertion that “no fix, no fee” is the only model that’s acceptable.

We have acknowledged repeatedly that some service providers do choose that model, and explained to you the ramifications of that model, including how it is unfair to the customers whose repairs subsidize the “no fix, no fee” customers.

--- End quote ---

The implication of that "subsidy" is that the repairer believes that all customers owe him/her a living.

Let's say I take my broken device to repairer A, and s/he spends 4 fruitless hours on it before writing it off as unrepairable. I then take the same device to repairer B who fixes it within an hour. Does repairer A deserve any recompense for their fruitless effort?
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