Electronics > Repair
Charging by the hour is unfair!
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Runco990:

--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 08, 2024, 07:58:42 pm ---

Why on earth would you not want me for a customer?  Perhaps you haven't read the thread, but what you describe is pretty much exactly what I've been advocating!

😀

--- End quote ---

You know I can only do this because it's basically my HOBBY.  If I had a ton of bills and had to pay for a shop, I'd find something else to do.

Now if you could convince politicians and CEO's to actually produce ANYTHING for their paychecks.....  THERE I'm on your side.  These people keep failing upwards and become millionaires.
David_AVD:

--- Quote from: PlainName on July 08, 2024, 12:28:44 pm ---
--- Quote ---Suddenly the favourite item from his youth was not worth spending anything on and he declined to bring it in.
--- End quote ---

Consider the alternative where he'd either paid up-front or agreed to whatever it costs in the end, and then discovering the actual cost. He may well have thought that had he known beforehand how much it would be, he'd never have considered it. So that's a customer out of pocket an unhappy.

--- End quote ---

I don't just repair an item at any cost and present a bill to the customer at the end. Likely costs and limits are discussed at booking in time. The customer being out of pocket in the case of an unrepaired item is not my problem.


--- Quote from: PlainName on July 08, 2024, 12:28:44 pm ---Perhaps a midway solution would be to agree an upfront (not necessarily paid upfront) cost to investigate (and potentially fix), and if it's looking to go over then the customer is advised and they can either accept a new estimate or not.

--- End quote ---

I do charge an upfront fee. It covers the first hour of labour. Occasionally I will book something in for half the amount (which covers 30 mins of labour) if I suspect that I can diagnose it accurately in less time. As I've said before, not charging the fee upfront leads to losses due to customers who fail to collect the item.


--- Quote from: PlainName on July 08, 2024, 12:28:44 pm ---ISTM that paying per hour is effectively making the repairer an employee in all but name, and yet not having any say on the matter. Paying an agreed fee (even if that turns out to require adjustment) is paying for the result rather than the journey getting there.

--- End quote ---

In a lot of (most ?) service industries, a "result" is not the same as a completed repair. It's a service performed. Would you complain about the tech who comes out, diagnoses your dishwasher / oven / washing machine / fridge, can't repair it (due to cost / parts) but still charges you for their time?
CatalinaWOW:
Just to explore a corner of this issue which hasn't been totally beaten to death.

It has been stated that the repairer has no right to an income and is therefor unjustified in charging anything for unsuccessful repairs.

I totally agree with the statement that the repairer has no right to an income.  Of course I am thoroughly embedded in a self sufficient mindset.  Someone from a place that was more egalitarian and society minded might not agree so completely.

But there is another consequence of my point of view.  The customer has no right for a repair business to exist.  If repairers find that they can't earn a living they must choose some other occupation and the customer is left with no alternative but replacement.  While several business models have been proposed none of them (including per hour fee with no guarantee of repair) assure that repairers exist.  If customers desire such a service to exist they may be required to exhibit some flexibility in their desires.

An analogy in my life.  I much prefer a brick and mortar store where I can examine a product before deciding to purchase, benefit from the expertise of the shop owner, and having made the decision can immediately satisfy my desire for the product.  Unfortunately the economics of a brick and mortar store competing with on line retailers has eliminated a large number of them.  Most of the survivors do so through a hybrid business model where the on line portion of their business allows the physical presence to remain open.  And the geographic density of those survivors is much lower meaning I have lost access to a great many products in my preferred format.  I have had to adapt, regardless of my preferences.  I have also been forced to admit that on line retailers have advantages, even for me.

I fundamentally don't think this is a fairness or morality issue, just a consequence of economic activity. 
shabaz:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on July 09, 2024, 12:29:30 am ---I fundamentally don't think this is a fairness or morality issue, just a consequence of economic activity.

--- End quote ---

Exactly; in itself, it's not inherently unfair or immoral at all.
Otherwise, where would it end. Taken to an extreme, it could be considered immoral to give up, even if you don't charge for the repair. Would it be more moral to not stop working till the end of time, and then charge a fixed fee because that was what was promised? Wouldn't that be immoral for the customer to then accept? Would it be immoral for the engineer to continue working knowing that it might make the customer's behavior become immoral.

Fortunately, the solution is simple. One can't force people to fix their hi-fi, or force any kind of work, that's a principle now entrenched almost everywhere since abolition of slavery. The solution is to use a contract, and morals have got nothing to do with them (granted terms must not be [legally] unfair, which is a completely different thing, often related to negligence and so on); if the contract is broken then there is simply an exchange of money (in either direction) as defined in the contract.

And as mentioned by people, the pricing model for the repair is a completely different thing.

fzabkar:
This is an interesting thread which discusses the pros and cons of free quotes and no fix, no fee.

"Business Strategy.. $0 fees if nothing recovered":
https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?p=311514#p311514


--- Quote ---@fzabkar "For example, a DR company may know that it is incapable of recovering a helium drive with a mechanical fault, but they may still accept the drive just so they can earn money from a diagnosis."

Indeed - a couple of months ago I inspected a helium filled 18TB HDD which had been to a well known UK data recovery company, that had charged £2500 upfront non-refundable for the recovery attempt. Needless to say the data was not recoverable. Worst of all, the disk had a mechanical failure (motor seized) and they had not even bothered to open the disk to at least give the impression the disk had been worked on! Just took the money from the customer desperate for their data. Disgraceful.
--- End quote ---
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