Electronics > Repair
Charging by the hour is unfair!
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fmashockie:

--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 04, 2024, 01:39:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: David Aurora on July 04, 2024, 12:10:28 pm ---The idea that we should absorb even more costs because a customer simply wishes the repair was cheaper is preposterous. It reeks of both entitlement and an absolute detachment from the reality the rest of the world lives in.

--- End quote ---

Another example of misrepresenting me. "Wishing the repair was cheaper" isn't anything I have said.  Please don't put words in my mouth.

I am advocating for the customer NOT being billed for a non-repair, UNLESS they have been warned in advance that this might happen and are willing to go ahead taking that risk.

There is an awful lot of noisy outrage in this thread, but my opinion is simple and summarised in that single sentence.  And nobody has yet made a good argument why that can't be standard practice.

--- End quote ---



I think the problem is whether you believe it or not, you are paying for the expertise/knowledge in addition to the repair of your good.  You say you don't care if the tech has to poke/guess as long as he gets it right but you do.  You're saying you would trust your car to a mechanic who just pokes/guesses around as long as he fixes it?  Okay so he guesses right that one time.  How bout the next time you need your car fixed?  He cuts the brake line and then you die in firey crash.  So that is what you are paying for as well.  The expertise, the knowledge.  The work that is being performed (diagnostics, troubleshooting, restoration, soldering, etc) that gets done even if the repair doesn't get completed.  Have you ever had to go to court?  Well in most cases, you are paying for that attorney's time whether you are found guilty or innocent.  It is no different here.  We can use the car analogy again: you are still paying for the labor that goes into the repair of your car even if they don't fix it.  Doesn't mean you can't complain and say that is unfair.  We can say a lot of things are unfair, but that is the way it is.  And that is why you take it to a good/experienced tech who might be able to tell you right off the bat (as David A said) that this isn't worth repairing; it may not end in success; etc.  I don't think you deserve any hate for your opinion because it is a valid question to ask, but 'no fix, no fee' ain't fair either. 
SteveThackery:

--- Quote from: fmashockie on July 04, 2024, 02:24:40 pm --- don't think you deserve any hate for your opinion because it is a valid question to ask, but 'no fix, no fee' ain't fair either.

--- End quote ---

The no fix/no fee may not be fair on the technician, but paying a technician to not fix your appliance is not fair on the customer, either.

I've noticed a worrying number of contributors to this thread seem to have the attitude "I'm incredibly smart and wonderful and my time is incredibly valuable (even though I can't fix the appliance), so I'm going to charge the customer the full whack anyway, and they can eat shit" (to paraphrase, obviously!).  In other words all the risk is on the customer, none on the technician.

The arrogance I've seen in this thread has been extraordinary. "If I can't fix it, it can't possibly be because I'm incompetent, it must be the fault of the appliance" seems to embody the attitude of a worrying number of contributors.

Psycopaths and money-grabbing sociopaths might feel comfortable with that level of arrogance and the complete lack of empathy for the customer, but I don't.

That's why I've been begging these contributors to at least consider a small change of practice to one of the following:

1/ If there is a possibility that the customer might have to pay your standard labour charge but still walk away with a broken appliance, then please warn them in advance that this might happen.  Then it's up to them whether they want to take the risk.

2/ Tell the customer they must pay for an evaluation regardless of your findings, and then give them a price range for the repair.  The customer can choose to pay for the evaluation or walk away.  If they choose to pay, then the next thing they will get is price range for the repair, and again they can pay up or walk away.

Yes, the second option is more complicated so probably less attractive to some of the more bullish contributors.

I just think it is extraordinary how so many contributors to this thread are completely unwilling to even consider taking on ANY risk, yet they are happy for the customer to risk hundreds of dollars of their hard-earned money.  It doesn't sit well with me.
shabaz:
Regarding:


--- Quote ---That's why I've been begging these contributors to at least consider a small change of practice to one of the following:

1/ If there is a possibility that the customer might have to pay your standard labour charge but still walk away with a broken appliance, then please warn them in advance that this might happen.

--- End quote ---

Really, this will simply be part of the T&C's. That's a well-defined mechanism (and avoids the risk of the customer stating they didn't hear or see the warning or that it was too ambiguous).

I think customers will expect this anyway; it's very common for some things to be unfixable or beyond economic repair, and it's very common for customers to expect to pay for this anyway.

At some point, people have to learn to read contract terms, and notices on the premises of the businesses they visit, it's a life lesson that applies beyond electronic equipment repair.
fmashockie:
Okay now you're starting to be a bit unsufferable to discuss this topic with.  And are beginning to deserve some of the anger being directed towards you IMO:


--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 04, 2024, 04:37:29 pm ---The no fix/no fee may not be fair on the technician, but paying a technician to not fix your appliance is not fair on the customer, either.

I've noticed a worrying number of contributors to this thread seem to have the attitude "I'm incredibly smart and wonderful and my time is incredibly valuable (even though I can't fix the appliance), so I'm going to charge the customer the full whack anyway, and they can eat shit" (to paraphrase, obviously!).  In other words all the risk is on the customer, none on the technician.

The arrogance I've seen in this thread has been extraordinary. "If I can't fix it, it can't possibly be because I'm incompetent, it must be the fault of the appliance" seems to embody the attitude of a worrying number of contributors.

--- End quote ---

No one said anything like this.  Also, you keep using the analogy of an appliance.  You're discussing this with people who are mainly talking about the component level repair of PCBs.  Boards that generally don't have schematics available or have parts that have become obsolete.  It is a big difference.  You're being a dick by trying to say that you paraphrased anyone's stance opposite to yours with the kind of language you used in the quote above.


--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 04, 2024, 04:37:29 pm ---Psycopaths and money-grabbing sociopaths might feel comfortable with that level of arrogance and the complete lack of empathy for the customer, but I don't.

That's why I've been begging these contributors to at least consider a small change of practice to one of the following:

1/ If there is a possibility that the customer might have to pay your standard labour charge but still walk away with a broken appliance, then please warn them in advance that this might happen.  Then it's up to them whether they want to take the risk.

2/ Tell the customer they must pay for an evaluation regardless of your findings, and then give them a price range for the repair.  The customer can choose to pay for the evaluation or walk away.  If they choose to pay, then the next thing they will get is price range for the repair, and again they can pay up or walk away.

Yes, the second option is more complicated so probably less attractive to some of the more bullish contributors.

I just think it is extraordinary how so many contributors to this thread are completely unwilling to even consider taking on ANY risk, yet they are happy for the customer to risk hundreds of dollars of their hard-earned money.  It doesn't sit well with me.

--- End quote ---

The people on this thread who do this for a living very much care about the customer.  I'm not working independently full-time, but at my current job as an instrument engineer for a biotech company, I go above and beyond to ensure repair is done timely, cost effectively, and with full communication to the end user.  Anyone who doesn't won't last long in this business.  And multiple people who are opposed to your 'no fee, no fix' request already stated they inform their customers of the potential outcomes and keep them informed as the repair proceeds.  You keep moving the goal-posts of your argument and you sound like your talking about some specific instance where someone ripped you off.  Your 'no fee, no fix' stance also seems in line with someone who does this for a hobby and not as your full-time job (something you've also confirmed yourself eariler).  This will be my last response because at this point you sound like you're just trying to rile people up (i.e. trolling).  Is this what happens to people in the UK around the 4th of July?

Final observation: the fact that you are calling the people in this thread sociopaths as you continue to 'like' every post made in opposition to you is also ironic. 
Smokey:
Hmmmm..  a user who makes wacky posts and then proceeds to argue with everyone while also liking every post....
Doesn't that sound familiar.....   F...  Fa...  Fai..... Fair....   
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