Author Topic: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin  (Read 3740 times)

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Offline RF_fanatic

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CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« on: November 18, 2016, 09:11:38 am »
As the topic mentions this deals with the CMU200 from Rohde & Schwarz which hangs during startup.

This is a quite often occuring bug so I will deep into some details of it and will restrict the fault to plugin level.

The CMU is packed with modules and each module also packed with plugins so how to search for a fault....

The problem manifests itself as a hanging serial number detection during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin eventually it will continue and even will mention the correct serial number but it takes time..... a lot of time..... while this normal would be done instantly.

So what is holding it?

As I have sort of specialized myself in the CMU and want to get to know every detail of it I was able to make a CMU test bench so I can quickly identify broken of defective modules and plugins.

It was not directly my intention to sort this specific problem out but as others on this board mentioned the same problem I decided to give it some more priority and narrow the problem down to plugin level and hope others will pick up where I stopped. Eventually I will also focus on repair of it but as I have so many projects running I just have a lack of time.

So lets cut the crap and start digging :

When you had enough patience to eventually load the serial number you will often find problems like dsp.cpp error or similar red screens on the CMU.

This allready gives you information that focussing on the dsp module would be interesting. By swapping the DIG module with a know good unit it an be confirmed that the DIG module is causing the problem.

Opening the DIG module you will see multiple plugins, the number will depend on the installed options.

The unit with 1100.3220.02 is the cause of the hickup

I have tested multiple not starting DIG modules and all come down to the 1100.3220.02 unit


« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 09:13:14 am by RF_fanatic »
 

Offline richnormand

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2016, 10:02:17 am »
I got a similar behaviour (with the same message. Perhaps about 10 minutes of delay. I will check tonight on the exact file name. That was with SW 5.03) in the course of fixing mine, but that issue went away when I decided to make a disk image (with several reading in case of read errors, and use a different drive.  It has been working for over a month now with no problems.

Could it be that the same error message screen be due to multiple causes, module hardware and/or corrupted software read from the HDD, bad data loaded to the eeproms or something else too?

Also posted here to be able to follow the thread.

Cheers and have fun!  :)

« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 10:33:19 am by richnormand »
 

Offline EB5AGV

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2016, 10:52:22 am »
I got a similar behaviour (with the same message. Perhaps about 10 minutes of delay. I will check tonight on the exact file name. That was with SW 5.03) in the course of fixing mine, but that issue went away when I decided to make a disk image (with several reading in case of read errors, and use a different drive.  It has been working for over a month now with no problems.

Could it be that the same error message screen be due to multiple causes, module hardware and/or corrupted software read from the HDD, bad data loaded to the eeproms or something else too?

Also posted here to be able to follow the thread.

Cheers and have fun!  :)

Yes, I think so. I have also a faulty CMU-200 with a similar problem. I also opened the DIGITAL board, which on my case was plenty of black dust, and carefully cleaned it along all the modules. But it still fails.

I have in the mail a new hard disk with working software for the CMU, so I will check if it is a matter of software of hardware fault. I guess the later... but I will know for sure soon.

I will let you know my findings. I guess that we can team to find a solution for this problem  :)

Regards,

Jose
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Offline SoundTech-LG

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 04:19:38 am »
Our (RF Lab) just obtained a CMU200 from another lab. We're trying to set it up and use it , so unsure of it's status so far. Will report back any problems we see...
 

Offline RF_fanatic

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 08:32:03 am »
I got a similar behaviour (with the same message. Perhaps about 10 minutes of delay. I will check tonight on the exact file name. That was with SW 5.03) in the course of fixing mine, but that issue went away when I decided to make a disk image (with several reading in case of read errors, and use a different drive.  It has been working for over a month now with no problems.

Could it be that the same error message screen be due to multiple causes, module hardware and/or corrupted software read from the HDD, bad data loaded to the eeproms or something else too?

Also posted here to be able to follow the thread.

Cheers and have fun!  :)



In my case (serveral units) the problem was 100% produced by a dead plugin module in the DIG board. In my CMU test bench I have kept the harddrive identical during all tests. just swapped the plugin as mentioned before.

But I have seen many problems with CMU's, a failing HDD is not very common, (only seen it once), one of the things I noticed when I suspected software issues I could "repair" them by using the function "delete non volatile RAM" and using scandisk both in the version manager environment.

It would be interesting if you place your original HDD back and do these things. If it starts hanging again than it can be confirmed that a HDD can also cause this.

Back to the dead plugin unit: The components are very dense and also some ball grid arrays are applied, so I'm a little bit affraid that one of the difficult components are the cause.

 
 

Offline richnormand

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 09:07:44 am »
I had a look yesterday and indeed the behavior was similar to what was described. A very long delay after the initial screen and then it would resume loading and give me the error message.
However, the file mentioned was "hw_init.cpp" at line 400. So you are right, it is a different issue. I assume this means hardware initialisation problem.

For good measure, since I now have a good disk image, I low level formatted the HDD and reinstalled the image on it. It has booted up OK several times today. Probably a bad sector on the HDD that got mapped out when I did the original check disk with the repair option. Also considering how old the HDD units are getting, having a good image backup is a really good idea I would think. They probably get less shocks than when used in a laptop but, on the other hand, my CMU has over 16500 hours logged in on that HDD. That is about 2000 8-hour work days. I don't think the HDD has a sleep function either.

 :)





« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 10:04:05 am by richnormand »
 

Offline EB5AGV

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 05:51:19 am »
Well, some more info to the pile  ;)

I have got today a hard disk with a working copy of the CMU software (it is not too recent, just V3.60). But it does the same than with the other hard disk. So, in my case, it seems there is some damage on the famous DSP board  |O

I have been talking with a good friend who has a BGA rework machine (and indeed a very good German one). We are going to reball the BGA devices on the DSP board. My idea is to do it one by one, so we know for sure if any of the ICs makes a difference.

I will let you know what we find. Things are getting pretty interesting  :-+

Regards,

Jose
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Offline Velund

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2017, 07:12:57 am »
The CMU200 I trying to restore now had the same problem that was fixed (started new thread about remaining troubles - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-cmu200-repair-(analyzer-levels)/msg1145649/#msg1145649 ).

Was able to figure out what happening after I switched to oldest version of FW that was on disk (3.06 ? ). That version not crashed during boot (not every time, though) and I was able to pass to self test. After I seen that FE EEPROM is not accessible, I looked thoroughly to cables, connecting FE and found defective IDC connector.
 

Offline EB5AGV

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2017, 08:03:42 am »
The CMU200 I trying to restore now had the same problem that was fixed (started new thread about remaining troubles - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-cmu200-repair-(analyzer-levels)/msg1145649/#msg1145649 ).

Was able to figure out what happening after I switched to oldest version of FW that was on disk (3.06 ? ). That version not crashed during boot (not every time, though) and I was able to pass to self test. After I seen that FE EEPROM is not accessible, I looked thoroughly to cables, connecting FE and found defective IDC connector.

Please, could you elaborate a bit more, perhaps with some picture of the offending connector location?

Thanks!

Jose
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Offline Velund

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2017, 08:11:54 am »

Please, could you elaborate a bit more, perhaps with some picture of the offending connector location?


Unable to take a shot - it is already assembled and put to a shelf over my workbench (the only place where it can be used for something useful). ;)

Concerning connector - it was a moderately wide flat cable that connected frontend to mainboard and then routed to top side of instrument. Problem connector was the middle one (2 mm 2 rows IDC) that, connects to motherboard.

Looked at connection diagram in service manual, probably cable was W215, but can't be 100% sure.

PS: Error was not in dsp.cpp though, but in stuc.cpp (cannot find line number now).
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 01:16:52 pm by Velund »
 

Offline Qw3rtzuiop

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2018, 11:56:43 pm »
Hello

my cmu200 has now a similar problem. The error apears on every start up.
I removed all unnecessary options and modules without any success. Has anyone a guess what part may be defective?
 

Offline RF_fanatic

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 09:32:08 am »
It might seem strange but check the connector between the Frontend module and the mainboard (the grey multiwire cable)

If I remember correctly I have also seen such message when that cable was not making proper contact, but I can be wrong..

 

Offline Qw3rtzuiop

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 11:15:15 pm »
I checked the connectors but that didnt helped. But i updated all the software to the latest version. Now the cmu is bootin up. But the spectrum display is empty. There must be a fault in the DIG module. Either the adc or the DDC/DSP board.
 

Offline tech255

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 07:19:51 am »
I have a machine that throws up errors like this when i try to install B17 and B21 modules im looking for an install version of "version manager" so i can wipe my drive and reinstall the version manager and then the software.

I would also like to install an earlier software if anyone has copies of these i have all the latest 5.1 and 5.2 versions. I have no idea what versions were previous.
 

Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2019, 09:58:23 pm »
Hi,

I received two CMU200 with broken DSP board 1100.3220.02.

Just a quick question (I am in the office and can't test it now): what happens if I remove this board? Will I just lose the WDCMA functionality or will the bas spectrum/generator functions stop working, too?

Does the CRTU have this board, too? Are they exchangeable between CMU200 & CRTU?

Regards,
Vitor

Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 02:00:09 am »
I answer myself: without the digital board, booting is normal, but WDCMA options is missing and RF spectrum/generator will crash the machine. :(

Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 12:06:18 pm »
1) Opened one of my CRTU and removed the two DSP modules from the DIGI board (CRTU has two)
2) Put each in my new two CMU200 (both had broken DSP module inside DIGI board)
3) Both CMU200 now start correctly, showing the serial number and spectrum works

But:

1) CRTU does not power up anymore, no matter if:
- remove DIGI board
- remove 2x broken DSP modules but insert DIGI board
- insert 2x broken DSP modules and insert DIGI board
It seems that the DIGI board is doing the power up and decides if the PC module starts or not.

2) Both CMU200 lost WDCMA capabilities. I think this is integrated in the DSP module.

So I traded one working CRTU to get two CMU200 running.

Anyone knows why the DSP modules break?

Regards,
Vitor

Offline Velund

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 01:37:36 pm »
2) Both CMU200 lost WDCMA capabilities. I think this is integrated in the DSP module.

Did you run "hardware change" procedure? Maybe DSP firmware should be updated to match main SW?
 

Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 08:07:57 pm »
I did.
Also installed latest FW and put in some keys...
No WDCMA options anymore.
I think that the DSP modules are all different with different options inside, though they are interchangeable.

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2019, 05:20:10 pm »
I'm going to put the following remark not as a statement of fact but rather to provide additional data for possible future analyses. I may be 100% off base or this may just be a coincidence.

I recently got a CMU200 back to work (display issue). Tested it when half-assembled and it worked fine. Put it back together and it didn't anymore. It orginally threw an error "unable to load FPGA from file" but after some tinkereing it now gives me the "stuc.cpp" error.

Taking it apart again, I noticed I swapped two of the Compact Flash flat cables. May have caused the issue or not. Restoring the correct order or just taking out the CF didn't help anymore so the damage appears permanent.
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Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2019, 07:49:10 pm »
Hi,

I don't think that swapping the CF cables would cause any harm - you would just map slot 1 to CF2 and vice-versa.

Unless, of course, you put the flat cable the wron side around, which again I don't think is an easy thing to do...

You might have:

- broken HDD
- corrupted file system
- broken module

Or, and this is a long shot: because you connected the CF slots in the wrong order, the C, D, E, ..., letters are now messed up and the BIOS/filesystem tries to load files from the wrong unit?

Good luck!

Regards,
Vitor

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2019, 01:01:25 am »
Well, figured it out in the end. There was another small flatcable not fully inserted somewhere in the chasis.Hadn't touched it but must have gotten a bit loose during assembly ;)

For my understanding; there's 3 flatcables for the CF card. How do you come to the conclusion swapping them could not cause physical harm?
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Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2019, 01:46:34 am »
Great news! I am glad it was a simple thing.

Please allow me to apologize - I forgot that the card-reader does feature three flat cables and they indeed all have the same connectors. Plus the length of the cables is ALMOST identical - W216 is shorter. I went to my spare parts box and looked at it.

I would say you could manage to swap W217 and W222.

Anyway, I stand by it that you probably would not break anything if you swapped the cables, as I think that there is no dangerous voltage in any of those pins and ground is the same. Some pins are not even connected, as the resistors are missing.

I suspect the third cable is not even used? The PCB is missing an IC that connects to W216.

Regards,
Vitor


Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2019, 01:55:37 am »
I'd give it a try but I don't want to jinx it ;D

Anyways, using the same cables 3x on the same location is just asking for trouble IMOH.

For those stumbling upon this thread somewhere down the line: atached is a picture of the offending flatcable.
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Offline Bicurico

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Re: CMU200 Rohde & Schwarz hangs during BaseDiscoverOptionsBegin
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2019, 02:08:51 am »
If I am not mistaken, that is the flatcable that connects the RF-Frontend module to the main board.

It is best accessed from the other side, when you remove the RF-Frontend module (I think).

I can imagine all sorts of errors if this cable is not propperly fitted and yes, it could get loose while messing around with RXTX-modules... (they need a lot of unscrewing of the waveguide connectors).

I wonder how long it took to develop the CMU200, considering its complexity and engineering...

Regards,
Vitor


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