Author Topic: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on  (Read 10844 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« on: September 07, 2015, 03:24:57 pm »
I have a Tektronix oscilloscope 2465, but unfortunately the CRT High Voltage Power Supply Circuit Board does not work anymore ("black smoke"). I bought a replacement board on ebay http://www.ebay.it/itm/201258583548?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Reading the service manual, under "Adjustments CRT," I saw that you need to have a Time-Mark Generator to generate a 10us time markers. Unfortunately I do not have this tool, but I have a function generator Rigol DG1022, is it fine as a substitute?

Any suggestions for the adjustment of the trimmers is pleasing.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 09:36:58 pm by Giovanni28 »
 

Offline wn1fju

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 246
  • Country: us
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 05:47:29 pm »
Should be good enough.  Just set the function generator to produce narrow pulses at the desired rate (or interval) and align them all with the graticules on the screen as you make the adjustment.  Typically a true time mark generator will probably produce faster rise times than you will get with the function generator, but as long as you make the graticules align with the same voltage on all the slower rise time pulses (say, on the left rising edge), you should be OK. 
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17504
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 08:03:21 pm »
I have a Tektronix oscilloscope 2465, but unfortunately the CRT High Voltage Power Supply Circuit Board does not work anymore ("black smoke"). I bought a replacement board on ebay http://www.ebay.it/itm/201258583548?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Reading the service manual, under "Adjustments CRT," I saw that you need to have a Time-Mark Generator to generate a 10us time markers. Unfortunately I do not have this tool, but I have a function generator Rigol DG1022, is it fine as a substitute?

Any suggestions for the adjustment of the trimmers is pleasing.
Normally a Time-Mark Generator is for the Cal procedures, does thie CRT HV board have Cal trimmers?  :o
If so, wn1fju's advice should suffice.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 08:16:11 pm »
Thank you! The new board must still be sended, when it will arrive most likely I will still need your help.

This is the new board. The seller says it is compatible with my oscilloscope.


this is the old board


« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 09:03:45 pm by Giovanni28 »
 

Offline wn1fju

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 246
  • Country: us
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 10:47:33 pm »
Yes, I was just assuming Tektronix called for a time mark generator as part of the horizontal cal procedures, not anything specific to the CRT adjustments.  I took a quick look at the service manual and that seems to be the case.

BUT, let me take this opportunity to rant a little about Tektronix cal procedures.  They usually call for specific pieces of equipment (usually their own brand, but not always), then tell you how to set the knobs on them and on the unit under test.  So if you don't have the specific piece, you have to figure out what they are trying to do and then look around your lab for something equivalent.  Not too bad usually.  But, then Tektronix marches you through step by step without really telling you what's going on or why.  I guess this is so an "untrained" person could theoretically do the cal.  However, God forbid you miss or skip a step, because usually the support equipment and unit under test have been set a certain way 10 pages ago and then modified 50 times since.  I've calibrated several dozen vintage Tektronix pieces over the years and it is always a chore.

Having said all this, after looking at the service manual, I would be astonished if you had all the necessary equipment.  Even if you did, I would be astonished if you could get through the cal procedure without making a mistake.

Rant completed.
 

Offline MarkL

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Country: us
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 12:23:47 am »
Assuming the scope was calibrated beforehand, you don't need to go through the whole calibration procedure if all you're doing is replacing the CRT electronics.  You don't need all the cal equipment.

Here's what you can do instead:

First, you'll need to perform the "CRT Adjustments" section to accommodate HV, grid, and other CRT-related voltage changes.  Use the calibrator output as a simple signal source.  Don't mess with the Z-axis transient adjustment unless necessary.

Adjust "Dynamic Centering".

Then, turn on the deltaV cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 8 divisions (ex: 8.0V if on 1V/div).  Use the vertical gain (R638) and vertical centering (R639) to make the cursors overlay the very top and very bottom graticule line.  Check that the full motion of either of the cursors is centered around the center on the screen.  It may take a few iterations to get a best result.  (On my 2465, the cursors don't go any further than the top and bottom graticule lines anyway, so they're always centered in motion, but I don't know if this is generally true.)

Similarly, turn on the deltaT cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 10 divisions horizontally, adjusting horizontal x1 gain (R860) and horizontal center (R801) to make the cursors overlay the very left and very right graticule lines.  Check centering as above.  Turn on horizontal x10 and adjust horizontal x10 gain (R850).  Again a number of iterations may be needed to find optimal settings.


The reason the above works is you're just re-adjusting the screen to make the cursors show the right signal values.  The best approach is still a full re-cal, but I've found this can suffice as long as the scope was correctly calibrated.
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 02:47:25 pm »
Assuming the scope was calibrated beforehand, you don't need to go through the whole calibration procedure if all you're doing is replacing the CRT electronics.  You don't need all the cal equipment.

Here's what you can do instead:

First, you'll need to perform the "CRT Adjustments" section to accommodate HV, grid, and other CRT-related voltage changes.  Use the calibrator output as a simple signal source.  Don't mess with the Z-axis transient adjustment unless necessary.

Adjust "Dynamic Centering".

Then, turn on the deltaV cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 8 divisions (ex: 8.0V if on 1V/div).  Use the vertical gain (R638) and vertical centering (R639) to make the cursors overlay the very top and very bottom graticule line.  Check that the full motion of either of the cursors is centered around the center on the screen.  It may take a few iterations to get a best result.  (On my 2465, the cursors don't go any further than the top and bottom graticule lines anyway, so they're always centered in motion, but I don't know if this is generally true.)

Similarly, turn on the deltaT cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 10 divisions horizontally, adjusting horizontal x1 gain (R860) and horizontal center (R801) to make the cursors overlay the very left and very right graticule lines.  Check centering as above.  Turn on horizontal x10 and adjust horizontal x10 gain (R850).  Again a number of iterations may be needed to find optimal settings.


The reason the above works is you're just re-adjusting the screen to make the cursors show the right signal values.  The best approach is still a full re-cal, but I've found this can suffice as long as the scope was correctly calibrated.

  So the service manual under "CRT ADJUSTMENTS", are you telling me I have to do the first 4 steps?

1. Adjust ASTIG Preset (R977) and Grid Bias (R1878)
2. Adjust TRACE ROTATION (R975) and Y-Axis Alignment (R1848)
3. Adjust Geometry (R1870)
4. Adjust Edge Focus (R1864)

and steps 5 (Adjust Z-Axis Transient Response (R1834)) and 6 (Adjust High Drive Focus (R1842)) NO 
 

Offline SoundTech-LG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 517
  • Country: us
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2015, 03:16:55 pm »
Assuming the scope was calibrated beforehand, you don't need to go through the whole calibration procedure if all you're doing is replacing the CRT electronics.  You don't need all the cal equipment.

Here's what you can do instead:

First, you'll need to perform the "CRT Adjustments" section to accommodate HV, grid, and other CRT-related voltage changes.  Use the calibrator output as a simple signal source.  Don't mess with the Z-axis transient adjustment unless necessary.

Adjust "Dynamic Centering".

Then, turn on the deltaV cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 8 divisions (ex: 8.0V if on 1V/div).  Use the vertical gain (R638) and vertical centering (R639) to make the cursors overlay the very top and very bottom graticule line.  Check that the full motion of either of the cursors is centered around the center on the screen.  It may take a few iterations to get a best result.  (On my 2465, the cursors don't go any further than the top and bottom graticule lines anyway, so they're always centered in motion, but I don't know if this is generally true.)

Similarly, turn on the deltaT cursors and set them to a value that covers a full 10 divisions horizontally, adjusting horizontal x1 gain (R860) and horizontal center (R801) to make the cursors overlay the very left and very right graticule lines.  Check centering as above.  Turn on horizontal x10 and adjust horizontal x10 gain (R850).  Again a number of iterations may be needed to find optimal settings.


The reason the above works is you're just re-adjusting the screen to make the cursors show the right signal values.  The best approach is still a full re-cal, but I've found this can suffice as long as the scope was correctly calibrated.

Having recently replaced the CRT on my 2467B, I found this to be exactly the case. I did an earlier CAL 01 on the scope, and everything was good to go at that point, so I figured the electronics were set. Changing the CRT would just mean accounting for the differences in Horiz/Vert deflections/gains of individual tubes. I set everything you mentioned, and it seems quite happy. So I think I can confirm this abbreviated CRT CAL procedure works.
 

Offline MarkL

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Country: us
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 08:36:31 pm »
  So the service manual under "CRT ADJUSTMENTS", are you telling me I have to do the first 4 steps?

1. Adjust ASTIG Preset (R977) and Grid Bias (R1878)
2. Adjust TRACE ROTATION (R975) and Y-Axis Alignment (R1848)
3. Adjust Geometry (R1870)
4. Adjust Edge Focus (R1864)

and steps 5 (Adjust Z-Axis Transient Response (R1834)) and 6 (Adjust High Drive Focus (R1842)) NO
Actually, I'd recommend working through the entire CRT Adjustment section.  (I previously said just NOT the Z-Axis transient response, but that's also on your new HV board, so you should do that too.)  Again, you can just use the calibrator input to give you a signal to examine.  I've also found it useful to turn on the BW limiter when working on focus related adjustments to give you a nice crisp trace.

In general, it's unlikely that the settings on your new HV board will be optimal for your specific CRT.  You'll probably need to tweak all the pots.  And like most analog adjustment routines, it's going to be an iterative process until you reach the best compromise for overall display quality.

Mark the pot positions with a marker before you move them in case you get totally off and want to start again.
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: CRT Adjustment Tektronix 2465
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 09:26:44 pm »
  :-[ |O Unfortunately, the card A9 was not responsible!

I disassembled the board A2 and I realized that there were two capacitors "broke", the C1016 and C1018; Resistor R1016 was also burned. I have replaced all three components and I reassembled the whole. Unfortunately still does not turn. No signs of life. Any suggestions on some equipment to be controlled and / or measures to be carried out is welcome.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 09:39:03 pm by Giovanni28 »
 

Offline Bryan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 572
  • Country: ca
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 12:53:29 am »
Probably the best thing you can do is get a hold of a service manual, readily available online. Start with the voltage checks on the power supply and go from there. There was a recent post a couple days ago and a user posted a picture of the dip socket on the mainboard and the page from the manual to verify the power supply voltages.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/another-2465-300mhz-to-repair/
-=Bryan=-
 

Offline MarkL

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Country: us
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 01:54:15 pm »
Check that the main fuse on the back (F90) is ok.

And, yes, definitely check the power supply output voltages.

If they're all zero, given that the dead components C1016, C1018, and R1016 are all on the primary side of the power supply, you could start by making sure there's DC coming out of CR1011 (approx 264VDC, according to the schematic).

USE CAUTION!  This and other voltages on the A2 board are at line potential and are dangerous.  Also, if some of the power supply is functioning, capacitors may remain at dangerous voltages after the unit is unplugged.
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 10:18:46 pm »
Check that the main fuse on the back (F90) is ok.

The main fuse (F90) is ok.


Quote
And, yes, definitely check the power supply output voltages.

If they're all zero, given that the dead components C1016, C1018, and R1016 are all on the primary side of the power supply, you could start by making sure there's DC coming out of CR1011 (approx 264VDC, according to the schematic).

The DC coming out of CR1011 is OK.

I checked the A3 board and I finded the capacitor C1023 was shorted.

I hope that now everything is ok!
 

Offline Bryan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 572
  • Country: ca
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2015, 01:19:52 am »
Best to change out all the electro caps on the power supply board. Just a note if replacing by the schematic there is a error with one of the caps shown in the schematic as it's shown installed reverse polarity. So just note when pulling them out the correct polarity. You will know they are leaking as soon as you unsolder as they will give off a fishy smell.
-=Bryan=-
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2015, 12:53:14 pm »
I can not find the capacitors to replace the silver in the picture (250uF 20V C1114 and C1115 - 180uF 40V. C1113 and C1116 - 10uF 160V. C1132); have you any suggestions for me?

« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 01:13:03 pm by Giovanni28 »
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15348
  • Country: za
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2015, 03:33:35 pm »
C1114, C1115 replace with 220uF 50v capacitors, they will fit. C1113/6 replace with 10uF 200V.
Buy 105C versions, preferably Panasonic, Nichicon or Rubycon, not mystery branded ones. Those are almost older than me.......
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2015, 05:06:47 pm »
C1114, C1115 replace with 220uF 50v capacitors, they will fit. C1113/6 replace with 10uF 200V.
Buy 105C versions, preferably Panasonic, Nichicon or Rubycon, not mystery branded ones. Those are almost older than me.......

Why values are so different from 180uF to C1113/6? I apologize, but also capacitors C1110 and C1111 are 250uF 20V.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 05:09:53 pm by Giovanni28 »
 

Offline dan3460

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 326
  • Country: us
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 05:34:17 pm »
I read somewhere that one of those caps, I think is the green one besides the transformer, must be exactly 100uF to give you exactly 15V (I think, quoting from memory).
This comes from the Tektronix group in yahoo, which I have tried to join in several occasions but no luck.
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15348
  • Country: za
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2015, 05:39:43 pm »
180uF and 250 uF can be replaced with 220uF, and using a 50V rated unit makes it easier to just use the same higher voltage all round, they will still work on the 20V rail.

Sorry, replace 10uF with 10uF, and the most common voltage over 160V is 200V.

You can almost always go higher in rated voltage provided it physically fits, and with capacitance values on electrolytics they in any case will have large tolerances on the old ones, typically +100 -50%, so a modern one with +-20% tolerance can replace the 2 different values easily.  Just measure the old ones diameter and hight so you can ensure the replacement parts will fit in the space. Most modern capacitors will do so, as they are likely physically smaller in diameter and hight for the same value, just from improved foil manufacturing enabling the use of a thinner foil.
 

Offline Bryan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 572
  • Country: ca
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2015, 12:56:56 am »
Spreadsheet of the values and the corresponding order numbers. Original has been changed by me to include some changes in part numbers.
-=Bryan=-
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2015, 07:26:43 pm »
I replaced all the electrolytic capacitors and also those of polypropylene. therefore, I assembled all the oscilloscope and finally went back to work.  :)

I would also replace the electrolytic capacitors from board A1, but scares me the idea to remove the front panel and connections to the CRT.
 

Offline dan3460

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 326
  • Country: us
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2015, 08:23:33 pm »
The front panel is easy to remove. There are instructions on the removal of all boards in the service manual.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17504
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2015, 08:27:09 pm »
I replaced all the electrolytic capacitors and also those of polypropylene. therefore, I assembled all the oscilloscope and finally went back to work.  :)

I would also replace the electrolytic capacitors from board A1, but scares me the idea to remove the front panel and connections to the CRT.
It will not be a problem if you have a good selection of tools, 1/4 drive socket set, hex keys etc
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Giovanni28

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: it
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2015, 09:10:52 pm »
 |O Unfortunately, I removed the motherboard A1 to replace the electrolytic capacitors, but now the result is what you can see in the photos below.




It definitely something wrong has reassemble. Can you help me please.
 

Offline MarkL

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1595
  • Country: us
Re: Oscilloscope Tektronix 2465 don't turn on
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2015, 09:45:39 pm »
All the front panel lights are on.  It's not getting through the boot process.

I would go back and start again with checking the DC power supply outputs, as Bryan had described in post #10 in this thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/another-2465-300mhz-to-repair/
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf