datron 1061 to 1061a or later with TMS2516jl

[xantia_99]

Hi
I have read most of work that have been done in this item.
I got a Datron 1061 from 1983 or 84 , I bought my self and got it back from the University some years ago. Series number 7349

After many many hours work it's excellent. Changes dc input as well as AC board many transistors and FET and the oscillator  , based on curve tracer.
It's very stable.    That is not what I want to discuss.

The manual and schematics says the third socket should be a TMS2516jl  with other word 2 Kbyte.  I have no problem to program with GQ-4x4 whats so ever with TMS2532jl or TMS2516jl I have them now on my bench. Most of the documentation on this web show that is three TMS2532jl  however I can dot that. I test with a logic pen yesterday and I can conform that the socket and signals indicate it should be a TMS2516 2 Kbyte on the third one.
I got software for Datron 1071 for this configuration , however without support for GPIB. I need GPIB
I must say I am not sure to upgrade at all from a good working equipment to  worse working 1071, You need to change several resistors, and that is doable in the next step. However my doubt is that a good Agilent 6½ digits with an exact RMS would be better.
However do anyone  have software  1061a or later for my configuration, without redesign these socket with one more address bit and Cs.
Hope I got it alright

Best Regard
xantia_99
 

[grizewald]

Don't do it. Even if you could get the 1071 firmware running in the 1061 it would not give you the same precision as the 1071 can.

First off, the zener diodes that provide the reference voltages are selected to lower standards. Second, there are other components on the analogue board, not just resistors but op-amps, which have considerably lower specs than the ones fitted in the 1071. All you will get is an inaccurate 7.5 digit meter.

As to your firmware problem. I have a 1061A which is a parts mule for my 1071. Which EPROM in the image below is the one that you are calling "the third socket"? (Click for full resolution)



I can remove the stickers from the EPROMS on my parts mule and see what type all of them are. Maybe it won't be useful as my 1061A has date codes from 1984, 85 and 86 on the digital board's ICs.

Sadly this 1061A does not have the GPIB option fitted either, so although I can dump the EPROMS and send you a copy, the dumps might not be any use as from what I understand there is a dependency between the digital board's firmware and the existence of a GPIB interface card.

[xantia_99]

Thank You, grizewald  for your conclusions
I would appreciate if you lift the upper sticker int the display end to see what TMS???   it is ?

It's possible to do whatever you want today with new analog chip and redesign  but it takes weeks to find out stability changes and I guess none is interested in that today. I spend month after month , and will probably not do it again.  Better to invest in new equipment. My 1061 in the 80th was  very unstable and now  it's something else.
 
I will wait to see if someone else will be able to send me Datron 1061a Eprom content with GPIB  support.

[Kleinstein]

The design of the 1061 / 1071 is odd by todays standard: it is still a dual/tripple slope type ADC and the reference with more or less separate positive and negative reference is strange.
There are principle limitations with this design that new chips can not overcome.

I can absolutely understand the interest in getting GPIB working. I find it odd to have GPIB hardware and just the EPROM missing. The more normal way would be to have the SW part but the HW missing.

[xantia_99]

As we all know early Datron 1061 had two Eprom TMS2532jl  on the Digital board and one empty socket for TMS2516jl for the future. The GPIB board option have it's own TMS2532jl  in my  setup.

Early 1071 software used the empty socket somehow TMS2516jl , but later on it switch to TMS2532jl if I am correct. And so did 1062  and so on.

I am not sure if it exist a 1061a with TMS2516jl, that is my wonder.  And ask for.

Hope I that clear out any questions.

[grizewald]

OK, here's what I found:

M35 (The EPROM closest to the CPU)
Datron Label 290056A-18-553 Date 26-11-1986

M30 (Middle)
Datron Label 290057A-18-553 Date 26-11-1986

M18 (Furthest from the CPU)
Datron Label 290113A-18-553 Date 26-11-1986

All three EPROMS are the same part number: TMS25L32JL-45
Apologies for the delay in replying.

[grizewald]

Further info:

Both the circuit diagram and parts list in the 1061 service manual confirm that the EPROMS are all 4K x 8

[xantia_99]

Thank You grizewald

That is what I thought. To be able to test it I need to add one address bit and change Cs. If it works I am not sure. It's possible, quite easy but ....
If You have spare time send these Eprom content for a test as I also need for GPIB  I will miss that.  It's a autumn work...
Now I see the schematics, I have seen it before from late version on 1071 

[grizewald]

Thank You grizewald

That is what I thought. To be able to test it I need to add one address bit and change Cs. If it works I am not sure. It's possible, quite easy but ....
If You have spare time send these Eprom content for a test as I also need for GPIB  I will miss that.  It's a autumn work...
Now I see the schematics, I have seen it before from late version on 1071

No problem. I'll pull the EPROMs and read them later on today. I'll drop you a PM when I've done that with a link to download the images from.

[grizewald]

Well, that was unexpected. It appears that my TL-866 cannot reconfigure itself to read a 2532.

I need an adapter board to be able to read these EPROMs and one should be on the way to me in a few days. Please bear with me...

[Per Hansson]

Well, that was unexpected. It appears that my TL-866 cannot reconfigure itself to read a 2532.

I need an adapter board to be able to read these EPROMs and one should be on the way to me in a few days. Please bear with me...

I don't think you should need an adapter board to just read the IC, the programmer probably can't supply the high voltage for programming the chip (VPP) at +25v.
But this is not necessary for reading the chip, it is a 5v part in that regard, very common with old EPROM's...
If I load that device into my GQ-4X it says I need to supply external VPP for the chip, but there is an alternative part number listed with the note: (read only)

[TheDefpom]

Some info...

The GPIB EPROM is part of the set, if you change the EPROM on the digital board the GPIB also has to be changed to match, otherwise the unit may not start anymore unless you disconnect the GPIB board.

Later units used a 2732 EPROM with special adapter socket which converted the pinout.


How to convert from TMS2532 to a 2732 pinout for use with an EPROM programmer or vice versa to use a 2732 EPROM in place of a TMS2532

Use a pair of stacked 24 pin sockets (flat pins for top socket, and machine pin for the bottom socket, bend the pins 18,20,21 of the top socket so they stick out between the top and bottom socket to allow wires to be connected to them.

To use a TMS2532 in a 2732 socket:
Link top socket pin 18 to bottom socket pin 21
Link top socket pin 21 to bottom socket pin 20
Link top socket pin 20 to bottom socket pin 18

You can only plug a TMS2532 into a 2732 socket, DO NOT USE IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

To convert from a 2732 EPROM to a 2532 socket you do something similar:
Link top socket pin 18 to bottom socket pin 20
Link top socket pin 20 to bottom socket pin 21
Link top socket pin 21 to bottom socket pin 18

You can only plug a 2732 into a TMS2532 socket, DO NOT USE IT THE OTHER WAY AROUND

[retiredfeline]

I don't think you should need an adapter board to just read the IC, the programmer probably can't supply the high voltage for programming the chip (VPP) at +25v.

TI really did use a different pinout for the 2532 compared with the 2732 so that an adaptor is needed even to read the EPROM.

[xantia_99]

Thank you All for your input.

I am fully aware of GPIB software and system board relations, but thanks.

An update in the 2532 relation to 2732 it's good to have in print. That's good for anyone. As I have known this for a long time I use GQ-4x4 Eprom programmer  which can handle both of them with 25 Volt possibility.

Cheers
xantia_99

 

[m k]

2732 has separated chip select and output enable pins, and both must be down for read.
So after programming 2732 20 <-> 2532 21 must be disconnected.

If 2732 uses pins 18 and 20 separately that must be taken care of.
Vpp pin 21 of 2532 has logic level high for normal read so its in circuit connection is possibly blocking 2732 and 1061 seems to do so.

For 2732 in 2532 socket shorting 2732 pins 18 and 20 is fine.

2532 in 2732 socket is different.
If 2732 circuit uses pins 18 and 20 like they are meant to be used then chip(s) is/are selected(pin 18) earlier and actual access(pin 20) time is half or less than stamped value.
Not likely but possible.

[grizewald]

I know I can bodge together a pair of 24-pin sockets to adapt the 2532 pinout to a 2732 but

a) I don't have any 24-pin sockets in stock.
b) I could buy a PCB which includes the required socket and does a neat job of the conversion for less than the cost of some 24-pin sockets. I'm sure this won't be the only time I ever encounter a 2532.

I'm disappointed at the TL-866 though - the whole point of it is that it has generic I/O which can be reassigned as needed to match the device you are trying to read/program, but despite that, it doesn't have a profile for the 2532.

[xantia_99]

Hi grizewald

Thank You for your patience and willing to try to do it.

Sooner or later I will find Eprom content for the 1061a with GPIB support!!

Cheers
xantia_99

[Per Hansson]

I'm disappointed at the TL-866 though - the whole point of it is that it has generic I/O which can be reassigned as needed to match the device you are trying to read/program, but despite that, it doesn't have a profile for the 2532.

I am too, if my Mcumall GQ-4X can do it I really think the TL-866 should too!
They have been quite responsive to requests in the past AFAIK.
Maybe you could try sending them an e-mail and ask?

[m k]

I know I can bodge together a pair of 24-pin sockets to adapt the 2532 pinout to a 2732 but

a) I don't have any 24-pin sockets in stock.
b) I could buy a PCB which includes the required socket and does a neat job of the conversion for less than the cost of some 24-pin sockets. I'm sure this won't be the only time I ever encounter a 2532.

I'm disappointed at the TL-866 though - the whole point of it is that it has generic I/O which can be reassigned as needed to match the device you are trying to read/program, but despite that, it doesn't have a profile for the 2532.

Don't forget to check its programming voltage, some models can't reach 20V.

Better change the oldest to 12.5V 27-series stuff, permanently.

[grizewald]

I know I can bodge together a pair of 24-pin sockets to adapt the 2532 pinout to a 2732 but

a) I don't have any 24-pin sockets in stock.
b) I could buy a PCB which includes the required socket and does a neat job of the conversion for less than the cost of some 24-pin sockets. I'm sure this won't be the only time I ever encounter a 2532.

I'm disappointed at the TL-866 though - the whole point of it is that it has generic I/O which can be reassigned as needed to match the device you are trying to read/program, but despite that, it doesn't have a profile for the 2532.

Don't forget to check its programming voltage, some models can't reach 20V.

Better change the oldest to 12.5V 27-series stuff, permanently.

Thankfully, I'm only going to read these EPROMs for xantia_99. The 1061A is my parts mule to provide (for example) a replacement display or transformer if anything catastrophic was to happen to my 1071. So I have no need to upgrade the EPROMs.

I've tested my particular version of the TL-866 programming 2716/2732 EPROMs at 21V and it's fine with that, probably not with 25V.

[xantia_99]

Hi


A friend send me this file, I will test it later on. So for the moment I do  not need any support  and I thank you all for Your participation in my test of Datron 1061A  code in my 1061. With double extra 24 pin socket and no need to bend the pins on my TMS2532jl just shift some pins to get 12 bit address support and new Cs, hopefully it will work but you never know.

Cheers
xantia_99
 

[grizewald]

Good luck and please let us know how it goes, I'm sure there are quite a few who are interested.