Dead Graphics card. 780TI. Dead Mosfet perhaps?

[Sikator]

First pic
Red + Green = 002 (diode mode)
Red + Blue = Does get numbers but in a split second goes above what my multimeter can read. "1   . " (diode mode)

Second pic
Red = 146 with Red on the tiny thing and 103 with Red on the 4901NF Chip. (diode mode)
Green = 522 with Red on top. And above what it can read with Red on bottom. (diode mode)
Blue = 550 with Red on the tiny thing.  And above what it can read with Red on the 4901NF Chip. (diode mode)

Think i understand it more now. Since its continuity mode/Diode mode. Black is where it comes from and red is where it goes to, when measuring?

[Rasz]

First pic
Red + Green = 002 (diode mode)
Red + Blue = Does get numbers but in a split second goes above what my multimeter can read. "1   . " (diode mode)

good, now we know second and third transistor from the top are 100% fine, those are powered from PCIE

Second pic
Red = 146 with Red on the tiny thing and 103 with Red on the 4901NF Chip. (diode mode)
Green = 522 with Red on top. And above what it can read with Red on bottom. (diode mode)
Blue = 550 with Red on the tiny thing.  And above what it can read with Red on the 4901NF Chip. (diode mode)

Did you measure both top transistors and wrote one answer because they were the same?

After googeling a bit, i read that Palit gives exact component specs etc if asked. And i got a positive answer when i sent them an email.

Will be good i guess for atleast when/if i need to order one of those unlabeled parts

this is pretty awesome, didnt know that about Palit.

After googeling a bit, i Imo, trying to learn is useless to begin with if there isn't enough interest in the subject. (if i got the scenario right)

nah, its 100% me. Good teacher will try to enamor students in the subject (which I tried with my l33t haxoring demonstration), I just get frustrated at first signs of not keeping up.


Now measure all the SIC780 in diode mode like you did 4901NF so we make sure its only fuse due to too much power drawn and not a fried transistor. Last thing you want is replacing fuse just to fry GPU.

Think i understand it more now. Since its continuity mode/Diode mode. Black is where it comes from and red is where it goes to, when measuring?

oh, if only it was that simple, it all depends on what you mean ;-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_polarity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_hole

in diode mode meter will pump some tiny current from positive(red) to negative/ground(black) and measure voltage drop, in essence its measuring resistance of biased silicone junction. Its a fancy way of measuring resistance.

go over all SIC780 to make sure they measure the same.

[Sikator]

Did you measure both top transistors and wrote one answer because they were the same?

i measured one right and you wanted me to measure in the same way on both?
or did i missunderstand the picture? i measured like this:

Maybe i should've done it like this?:

Then when thats said i am supposed to do it on both the 4901NF chips?


I got slightly confused here as the word "Transistor" was used. Is that the tiny thing on its left? Cause the 4901NF's are power mosfets?



Also to make sure i am gonna do the SIC780's correct. on the pic you drew on 6 of the SIC780's the lines are different. I woudlve thought i had to measure the same way on all of them.
Is this because it is basic
Vin to GND
GND to SW
and SW to VIN?
as you showed in this pic:

[Armadillo]

After googeling a bit, i read that Palit gives exact component specs etc if asked. And i got a positive answer when i sent them an email.

"Dear customer
 
Thank you for the mail.
 
If you need some components’ SPEC please kindly provide below information.
1. S/N of the graphic card, you can find the S/N from the product box or the sticker in back of the graphic card.
2. Big & clear pictures of the PCB part of the graphic card and please use color circle to point out what components you need the SPEC.
We will provide the components’ SPEC accordingly.
 
Please kindly be notified.
Thanks."
Will be good i guess for atleast when/if i need to order one of those unlabeled parts

Maybe you should "TRY" also to ask them for the circuit schematic if not the block diagram and if not the troubleshooting flow chart or the initialization flow chart just in case the 2 problems are not resolved by the fuse. Better still, ask the fuse and freezing question to them. Don't we all like to learn ?

[Sikator]

Maybe you should "TRY" also to ask them for the circuit schematic if not the block diagram and if not the troubleshooting flow chart or the initialization flow chart just in case the 2 problems are not resolved by the fuse. Better still, ask the fuse and freezing question to them. Don't we all like to learn ?

Wold not see them giving too much but i could deff try something

[Rasz]

i measured one right and you wanted me to measure in the same way on both?

Im getting frustrated again :/ this is obvious stuff, you have two identical 4901NF parts, yes measure BOTH the same way

or did i missunderstand the picture? i measured like this:

good

Maybe i should've done it like this?:

take a good look at 4901NF, use a loupe/macro in your camera, look at the pins and what they connect to, notice something funny? some pins connect to the same track on the board, now look at the picture you just drew   

I got slightly confused here as the word "Transistor" was used. Is that the tiny thing on its left? Cause the 4901NF's are power mosfets?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET
The metal–oxide–semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET, MOS-FET, or MOS FET)

Also to make sure i am gonna do the SIC780's correct. on the pic you drew on 6

all 8

of the SIC780's the lines are different.

I wasnt pixel perfect ;-)

I woudlve thought i had to measure the same way on all of them.
Is this because it is basic
Vin to GND
GND to SW
and SW to VIN?
as you showed in this pic:

yes, on all 8 SIC780
pins market in same color are connected together. Lot of power going thru = need to use couple of pins tied together. This is why Vin and SW have 7 pins connected to same tracks.



There are 3 groups of transistors on your card. Judging from pictures (so ~99% sure):

1/ 2 powered from PCIE, Q16 4901NF for ram + U6 SIC780 for GPU - the bare minimum just enough to display that 'not plugged in' message = 100% working

2/ 3x SIC780 U7 U8 U9, powered from right most external socket, supplied thru L17 = maybe ok, maybe bad

3/ 4x SIC780 U10 U11 U12 U13, powered from left external socket, supplied thru L18 (open circuit) = 100% broken here

no idea where Q15 4901NF is connected, im guessing its in group 2.



now we need to check if Q15 measures same as Q16, and if U10 U11 U12 U13 measure same as U6 U7 U8 U9.
Obviously Vin to GND will be common among transistors in same group.

Maybe you should "TRY" also to ask them for the circuit schematic if not the block diagram and if not the troubleshooting flow chart or the initialization flow chart just in case the 2 problems are not resolved by the fuse. Better still, ask the fuse and freezing question to them. Don't we all like to learn ?

I wouldnt, this would signal you have absolutely no clue about what you are doing. This circuit is a very basic DC/DC buck converter, if you look at the back of the card there are controller chips there, circuit is based on their reference applications. We only care about the values of broken discrete components - so far one fuse, most likely 8 Amps.

[Sikator]

i measured one right and you wanted me to measure in the same way on both?
or did i missunderstand the picture? i measured like this:

Maybe i should've done it like this?:

Then when thats said i am supposed to do it on both the 4901NF chips?

ok so it doesn't matter. Same readings. Most important. some of the readings are different between the two 4901NF chips. Tho marginal. with 020 differance at max.

Here are all of them counting from the top, so 1. = the top 4901NF. The colors represents as i mesure according to the picture above.

1. |Blue=542| |Green=497| |Red=102|

2. |Blue=458| |Green=519| |Red=102|

I got slightly confused here as the word "Transistor" was used. Is that the tiny thing on its left? Cause the 4901NF's are power mosfets?



Also to make sure i am gonna do the SIC780's correct. on the pic you drew on 6 of the SIC780's the lines are different. I woudlve thought i had to measure the same way on all of them.
Is this because it is basic
Vin to GND
GND to SW
and SW to VIN?
as you showed in this pic:

I saw that this didn't matter either, Same readings from any Vin to GND, GND to SW etc.

So there are some small differances between the chips. But mainly the top SIC780.


Here are all of them counting from the top, so 1. = the top SIC780.


1. |Vin to SW=512| |Vin to GND=519| |SW to GND=009|

2. |Vin to SW=490| |Vin to GND=497| |SW to GND=009|

3. |Vin to SW=490| |Vin to GND=497| |SW to GND=009|

4. |Vin to SW=490| |Vin to GND=497| |SW to GND=009|

5. |Vin to SW=483| |Vin to GND=492| |SW to GND=009|

6. |Vin to SW=483| |Vin to GND=493| |SW to GND=009|

7. |Vin to SW=483| |Vin to GND=491| |SW to GND=009|

8. |Vin to SW=483| |Vin to GND=491| |SW to GND=009|


I hope this was what you wanted.

[Sikator]

Im getting frustrated again :/ this is obvious stuff

sorry again its corrected, it makes more and more sense as we go. Haha unfortunately i will understand most of what i did after and not during this xD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET
The metal–oxide–semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET, MOS-FET, or MOS FET)

This caught me off guard however. Interesting.

[Armadillo]

I wouldnt, this would signal you have absolutely no clue about what you are doing. This circuit is a very basic DC/DC buck converter, if you look at the back of the card there are controller chips there, circuit is based on their reference applications. We only care about the values of broken discrete components - so far one fuse, most likely 8 Amps.

I am thinking forward aloud, the DC/DC buck converter is unlikely to "FREEZE" the whole computer "at times". I am thinking that the BUS has been locked or jammed by some attempt at DMA access from either way which freezes the computer as described. Maybe yes, its a power issue and maybe no. Yes, I have no clue.
You sounded mighty confident at your approach. Well OK, you're the man.

[Rasz]

I wouldnt, this would signal you have absolutely no clue about what you are doing. This circuit is a very basic DC/DC buck converter, if you look at the back of the card there are controller chips there, circuit is based on their reference applications. We only care about the values of broken discrete components - so far one fuse, most likely 8 Amps.

I am thinking forward aloud, the DC/DC buck converter is unlikely to "FREEZE" the whole computer "at times". I am thinking that the BUS has been locked or jammed by some attempt at DMA access from either way which freezes the computer as described. Maybe yes, its a power issue and maybe no. Yes, I have no clue.
You sounded mighty confident at your approach. Well OK, you're the man.

I meant this would signal incompetence to the person reading the mail. Its like calling Mercedes dealer and asking to tell you in detail how a combustion engine works because you are about to repair one of their product and need 'few pointers' .

I hope this was what you wanted.

all looks ok, 4901NF is indeed in the second group of transistors.
Looks like you lucked out and its only the fuse. DO NOT just bridge it with a wire (common cheapstake/noob tactic,  been there fried few things myself)

measure the size of that fuse, is it ~3x1.5 mm?
http://www.newark.com/fuses-fuse-accessories_fuses/fuse-current/8a/pg/810096524
1$ + shipping

[Sikator]

all looks ok, 4901NF is indeed in the second group of transistors.
Looks like you lucked out and its only the fuse. DO NOT just bridge it with a wire (common cheapstake/noob tactic,  been there fried few things myself)

measure the size of that fuse, is it ~3x1.5 mm?
http://www.newark.com/fuses-fuse-accessories_fuses/fuse-current/8a/pg/810096524
1$ + shipping

Omg, just to think that it's just a fuse :O

its 6x2.5mm



This makes me remember back in 2010-2011 when my friend broke a fan on his GTX 470. when i spoke with him a few days after i asked where it was. He said "I ripped it apart and threw it in the trash"
He could see i was shocked and he then said "Why? what about it? don't say anything that will make me more mad please" With a sad face. I said "Nah nvm nothing"
I was so frustrated that day....

[Rasz]

its 6x2.5mm

might be this http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/fuses/littelfuse_fuse_2410sfv_datasheet.pdf.pdf
or http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/9/AEM_AF2-771160.pdf
but letter markings suggest different amperage from what I found earlier, R 8A and X 12A, still sane values. Its time to check if palit really answers emails about components ask them about values of 3 fuses on your card.

and dont celebrate too early, it might still blow up in your face ;-)

[Sikator]

its 6x2.5mm

might be this http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics/datasheets/fuses/littelfuse_fuse_2410sfv_datasheet.pdf.pdf
or http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/9/AEM_AF2-771160.pdf
but letter markings suggest different amperage from what I found earlier, R 8A and X 12A, still sane values. Its time to check if palit really answers emails about components ask them about values of 3 fuses on your card.

and dont celebrate too early, it might still blow up in your face ;-)

I will try not to celebrate xD

I allready sent a mail about the one that is dead in case so the answer would come as fast as possible, Ill add on the two others now

[Sikator]

and dont celebrate too early, it might still blow up in your face ;-)

I will record when i try it the first time, could be fun x)


Palit was quick with replying the first time so i guess i will have an answer latest tomorrow. Will update then!

[Rasz]

you might also just buy both 8A and 12A fuses now and simply start with 8A, card should boot with either one, but could potentially pop 8A again during something heavy like unigine test loop if its too small.
There are pictures of this card with either two R or two X fuses

https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/upload/pictures/Palit-GeForce-GTX-780-Ti-JetStream-3GB-GDDR5-(NE5X78TH10FBJ)-PCB_54863.jpg
https://3dnews.ru/assets/external/illustrations/2014/03/27/814253/11_pal78ti_pcb_big.jpg

[Sikator]

you might also just buy both 8A and 12A fuses now and simply start with 8A, card should boot with either one, but could potentially pop 8A again during something heavy like unigine test loop if its too small.
There are pictures of this card with either two R or two X fuses

https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/upload/pictures/Palit-GeForce-GTX-780-Ti-JetStream-3GB-GDDR5-(NE5X78TH10FBJ)-PCB_54863.jpg
https://3dnews.ru/assets/external/illustrations/2014/03/27/814253/11_pal78ti_pcb_big.jpg

Interesting. The one with 2 R's has 1x6pin and 1x8pin power tho? if that changes anything

[Armadillo]

I meant this would signal incompetence to the person reading the mail. Its like calling Mercedes dealer and asking to tell you in detail how a combustion engine works because you are about to repair one of their product and need 'few pointers' .

If it's just a combustion engine, that simple, you would have explained the cause/s of the computer "freeze". So, it's not that simple, cause it's never explained.
I mean is there a need to pretend competence when the "freeze" had not been explained? or at least you are not definite about it still now?.
There is a reason why repair & maintenance manual are made for cars or be it, why service manual are produced for electronics - because it's internationally known that it's complicated. For example, we all know about BIO start up beeps or error start up codes only by reference to the manual, so what is wrong with asking for undocumented technical stuff? I don't think anyone would sound incompetence by knowing what and how to ask for information in this trade! 
Emm...!, is there a practice in your poorer part of EU the need to pretend to be competent?
This forum is about asking, right? Cheers!    Let's all hope that changing the fuse, would finally repair the GPU for Sikator. 

[Sikator]

I meant this would signal incompetence to the person reading the mail. Its like calling Mercedes dealer and asking to tell you in detail how a combustion engine works because you are about to repair one of their product and need 'few pointers' .

If it's just a combustion engine, that simple, you would have explained the cause/s of the computer "freeze". So, it's not that simple, cause it's never explained.
I mean is there a need to pretend competence when the "freeze" had not been explained? or at least you are not definite about it still now?.
There is a reason why repair & maintenance manual are made for cars or be it, why service manual are produced for electronics - because it's internationally known that it's complicated. For example, we all know about BIO start up beeps or error start up codes only by reference to the manual, so what is wrong with asking for undocumented technical stuff? I don't think anyone would sound incompetence by knowing what and how to ask for information in this trade! 
Emm...!, is there a practice in your poorer part of EU the need to pretend to be competent?
This forum is about asking, right? Cheers!    Let's all hope that changing the fuse, would finally repair the GPU for Sikator. 

Just as an input. i have 3 monitors. main and left went black. The third was connected trough HDMI And i think it showed the picture for like a second. The first thing i did when stuff went wrong was look at MSI Afterburner. So almost like split second i presume? It has been closing to a year since this happend. The symptoms were mostly copied from the post i did on another forum in 2016.

[Armadillo]

Just as an input. i have 3 monitors. main and left went black. The third was connected trough HDMI And i think it showed the picture for like a second. The first thing i did when stuff went wrong was look at MSI Afterburner. So almost like split second i presume? It has been closing to a year since this happend. The symptoms were mostly copied from the post i did on another forum in 2016.

If the "freeze" you talked about its just from the GPU card and not the computer [computer did not hang / freeze], then you may be in luck

[Rasz]

Here I was hoping for universal car analogy to work :-)

If it's just a combustion engine, that simple, you would have explained the cause/s of the computer "freeze". So, it's not that simple, cause it's never explained.

Im very confused with your obsession about freezing. I propose a little experiment - pull external power from your graphic card and watch what happens.

I mean is there a need to pretend competence when the "freeze" had not been explained? or at least you are not definite about it still now?.
There is a reason why repair & maintenance manual are made for cars or be it, why service manual are produced for electronics - because it's internationally known that it's complicated. For example, we all know about BIO start up beeps or error start up codes only by reference to the manual, so what is wrong with asking for undocumented technical stuff? I don't think anyone would sound incompetence by knowing what and how to ask for information in this trade! 

Palit has no obligation to help anybody, the mere fact they actually offered to help with part identification is amazing (and unheard of).
Wasting this opportunity by asking stupid questions could end any help. Lets say you are signing up for a chess tournament, you come up to the guy with the list, put down your name and start asking about the basic game rules.

Emm...!, is there a practice in your poorer part of EU the need to pretend to be competent?

Yes, there is this thing called wasting someones time. Engineers are very sensitive about this. If you start conversation by letting me know you have no idea what you are doing Im not going to hold your hand, im going to refer you to one of our authorized service centers, and Im speaking this from 'mayor regional parts distributor service technician' chair, not just as a random forum poster.

this:
>circuit schematic if not the block diagram and if not the troubleshooting flow chart or the initialization flow

is basic knowledge, you can look it up in 30 seconds with one google query after reading buck controller model from the back of the card and searching for its datasheet. Edit https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP4208-D.PDF

This forum is about asking, right?

This forum yes! We even have section about basics somewhere (i think), but definitely not manufacturers general support email. This is like mailing Intel support about low-k dielectrics, or Mercedes about basics of combustion cycle.

Let's all hope that changing the fuse, would finally repair the GPU for Sikator. 

Im ~70% confident its only the fuse at this point ;-)

[Armadillo]

this:
>circuit schematic if not the block diagram and if not the troubleshooting flow chart or the initialization flow

is basic knowledge, you can look it up in 30 seconds with one google query after reading buck controller model from the back of the card and searching for its datasheet. Edit https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/NCP4208-D.PDF

Tell me if you think "initialization flow" is anything to do with your kitty buck controller stuff that you are SO proud about? Are you only limited in knowledge to power supply and you keep dangling about it and refuses to see the lights of others? Tell me if you were wrong [again] from your guesswork, will you be able to discern and differentiate and troubleshoot the RAMs against the GPU or its peripherals chips nearby? For example one of them is shorted or opened. Do you need aids like initialization flow to help out?

For I am just planning ahead of time, just in case the fuse didn't solve it. I am NOT definitely NOT interested in your buck converter knowledge and it don't impress me at all. It's kind of silly, you think that I am asking for schematic, block, flow or initialization stuff for the buck converter.!

But, still I hope it's just as simple as the fuse is blown. Let's focus forward, objectively. 

[Rasz]

Just to be clear Ill say it again - my first reply to you, the one saying "absolutely no clue about what you are doing" wasnt meant to offend you, but reflect reality - OP has no clue what he is doing + asking this level of question usually results in end of conversation(with me, on paid repair forums etc). Its one thing to give quick concrete reply to highly technical question, another trying to teach someone how the whole thing works. This is the kind of question you expect to get answered when moving couple $mil of TI/Analog components per month. But hey, feel free to be angry
Edit: shit, Ill even apologize for good measure. Im sorry if I offended you.

Tell me if you think "initialization flow"

initialization of what? Im even more confused now. You expect Nvidia partner to give you NDA covered information? You want them to disclose their throttling/power limit algorithms/methods?

is anything to do with your kitty buck controller stuff that you are SO proud about?

now now, no need to get angry

Are you only limited in knowledge to power supply and you keep dangling about it and refuses to see the lights of others?

What are you on about?
GPU itself is ok, same for the ram - card powers up on one supply rail, passes firmware selftest and is capable of generating picture. The only stuff that can be broken is in plain view(power sensing).

Tell me if you were wrong [again] from your guesswork, will you be able to discern and differentiate and troubleshoot the RAMs against the GPU or its peripherals chips nearby? For example one of them is shorted or opened.

oh you missed that part, we already tested ram and GPU, they are neither shorted nor open.

Do you need aids like initialization flow to help out?

initialization of what?

For I am just planning ahead of time, just in case the fuse didn't solve it. I am NOT definitely NOT interested in your buck converter knowledge and it don't impress me at all

well fuck me, I failed at impressing someone over the internet, maybe its time to delete this account 

. It's kind of silly, you think that I am asking for schematic, block, flow or initialization stuff for the buck converter.!

then speak plainly, what exactly are you asking for? seriously, I might be missing something
Nice mini flamewar, I feel like on usenet again.

[Armadillo]

Tell me if you were wrong [again] from your guesswork, will you be able to discern and differentiate and troubleshoot the RAMs against the GPU or its peripherals chips nearby? For example one of them is shorted or opened.

oh you missed that part, we already tested ram and GPU, they are neither shorted nor open.

No flame war intended. The fuses don't just blow. It blew up for a reason. It could be the mosfets , but those were ironed out. So something blew the fuses [over-clocking maybe]. We were seeing at different angles, expressing differently. You intended to be satisfied with the plug in of the new fuses, I am still searching for answers.

But since you are now 100% satisfied that the GPU and Rams were tested ?? [presumably including the data and address busses ], I should be satisfied with your findings, same.

OK great.  Peace be to All.

[Sikator]

The answers are in.

 

1. FUSE 2410 125V 10A AEM AF2-10.0V125TM

2. FUSE 2410 65V 15A AEM AF2-15.0V065TM

3. FUSE 2410 65V 15A AEM AF2-15.0V065TM


So im buying Nr 2/3 then.

Just gonna do some searches, make sure I don't have to pay a million bucks to ship it to Norway xD

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

[Sikator]

Well so far I've only found mouser.com that lets me order just 1 and not like 2000 minimum.

Tho the fuse costs 2.75NOK and they want 150NOK shipping -_-

Am I looking at the wrong suppliers?

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk


EDIT: Could i trust alibaba.com? i have had bad experiance from buying stuff from china also the ordering method is weird o.O + waiting 35days for it would be sad.