Author Topic: Dead LeCroy 9414  (Read 3965 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Dead LeCroy 9414
« on: September 06, 2014, 01:57:47 pm »
Just wanted to install my 9414 to measure noise from different fans in my 9354AL....worked before like a charm...
and now suddenly dead as a mouse...

When powering on...no lights on, also fan is not running....when switching off I hear some relay clicking...

Don't they have some primary switched power supply to generate all voltages?

Running now the service manual through Acrobat pro to make a searchable PDF (o;

« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:39:44 pm by davorin »
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2014, 02:56:07 pm »
Got the manual searchable now...

Interesting....only thing I can found regarding "removal of power supply" is just this small text:

Quote
The power supply support (33) and the card retainer ( 34) hold the
F9450-2 (15), F9410-6 (29), F9410-3 (28) F9420-4 (27), and the F9451-1
or 94XX-1701 (18) power supply in place and mus t be removed if any of
these boards is to be removed . They are fixed with screws and washers
see figure 4 . 1 and 4. 2.

Removing the card retianer makes no sense to me....and removing the power supply support makes it somehow loose...but power supply can't be removed....
And a very nice design that is so damned close to the CRT neck to kill it by accident...

ANyone a suggestion how to safely remove the pwoer supply without killing the CRT neck?

 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2830
  • Country: gb
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2014, 03:39:59 pm »
Quote
ANyone a suggestion how to safely remove the pwoer supply without killing the CRT neck?
Remove the whole front panel including the CRT, then you can put it aside while you get the PSU out - it all pulls off as a single unit and there are just two ribbon cables connecting it to the CPU card - one for video and CRT power and another from the front panel rotary encoders and switches.
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2014, 04:27:38 pm »
Ah thanks...will try that tomorrow carefully...

My desk is still occupied with my 9354AL and me busy doing different fan testing/measurements (o;

Wondering if the power supply is repairable at all...or someone ran into the same problem...but when I look at the schematic and block diagram...all it does is +/-5V and +/-15V....and RefZ..
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 04:39:56 pm by davorin »
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2014, 04:27:30 pm »
Got the power supply out now....without removing the front panel...besides..the description in the 9410 manual isn't that helpful like in the 935x manual...

See nothing suspicious on the power supply module..nor does it smell like burned resistor, capacitor and the like...high voltage transistor is also okay...
and from the clicking noise when powering off I suspect some rail DC rail is shortened to ground and protection circuit kicks in...

Think I have some 5V 10A switcher supply somewhere on stock..and the +/-15V rails I can feed from my 6632Bs.


Okay...got the pin numbers from board 9424_1:

Code: [Select]
1: Line Sync
 2: GND
 3: VCC
 4: GND
 5: VCC
 6: GND
 7: VEE
 8: VEE
 9: +15V
10: -15V
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:48:16 pm by davorin »
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2014, 05:23:10 pm »
Hmm....doesn't power on when removing the plug with +/-15V going to the deflection board...

ANd when switching off the fan turns quickly....assuming the protection circuit looses power more quickly than primary capacitor...causing the switcher to run for a while...

What I don't get is the strange circuit around the LM324 controlling the transistor/diode pairs in parallel of the secondary windings of the flyback transformator...


 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2014, 04:35:22 pm »
Some more findings..though not bringing me to the solution (yet ;o)

When powering on, the switcher doesn't kick off at all....and therefore the overvoltage/current protection circuit doesn't get a power supply....so an overload condition can be excluded...
Also checked that with either only the CRT deflection unit connected, or only the logic circtuis...

Interesting is the fact that as soon I switch the device off...the switcher starts working...as I can see a small 100msec peak on the +/-V rails for the protection circuits....that's also when the fan kicks in shortly...


Any idea why the switcher won't start at the beginning?

Attached the waveform of the secondary winding feeding the protection circuit...



« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 05:49:45 pm by davorin »
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 02:45:14 pm »
Just replaced some capacitorrs on the power supply board...namely the two big ones (470u) and the two smaller ones around the switching controller hybrid circuit (10uF and 820uF)...

Still doesn't kick in when powering on...but oddly...when I shortly power it off and immediately back on again...the DSO runs just fine ;-)

Can't seem to find the component which is responsible to start the switcher when power is applied....and wonder why it kicks off when the supply voltage decreases...

 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22933
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2014, 08:15:14 pm »
Been watching you  :box: with this scope.
Can you solder a lead on the VDD pin of the switcher to check sufficient power is available for startup?
If there is, one then might suspect the feedback to the IC?

Any datasheet available for that IC?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist

I can offer help and advice on Siglent equipment as available spare time and other commitments allow.
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2014, 08:21:31 pm »
Would be nice to know which one is the Vdd pin on the module...it's just a small PCB molded in some strange resin or the like...

I can start the DSO when I power it on/off/on few times...then it works normally...

My last resort is to use some AC/DC switching modules from Mean Well, which are low-cost...namely RS-75-15 and RS-50-5 for getting 15V DC and 5V DC.


 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22933
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2014, 08:47:46 pm »
You may have to draw out the area around the switcher to gain some understanding.
Often in the cheap SMPS's a 10-22 uF E-cap is between the VDD pin and GND and sometimes the supply for it comes from a high value resistor from rectified main for startup, then a "running" supply comes from a feedback winding. Normally a diode in series from the feedback winding.
Others rely on the feedback winding and the voltage feedback loop to "kick" off.

Grab a few datasheets for switcher IC's and look at various applications for clues to the LeCroy switcher operation.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist

I can offer help and advice on Siglent equipment as available spare time and other commitments allow.
 

Offline davorin

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 900
  • Country: ch
Re: Dead LeCroy 9414
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2014, 08:54:51 pm »
Well my guess was a capacitor with decreased value....reminded me when in good old times I repaired a Panasonic VCR with couldn't be switched on....the owner told me I could keep it if I could repair it...as the TV shop wasn't capable off....turned out to be a bad capacitor lost his value over time...which was responsible to filter peaks of detected load current for the overcurrent protection.

Anyway....biggest problem is now to get hands on a transformator to galvanically isolate it from main line to hook up a DSO...
Just have a big one here...when powering on the whole basement gets dark (o;


Another problem is that the schematic in the service manual is barely readable....


« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 08:57:43 pm by davorin »
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf