Electronics > Repair
EU Right to Repair
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wraper:

--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 08, 2024, 12:54:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: wraper on July 08, 2024, 11:07:18 am ---Try writing that into a law in a way so it does not backfire spectacularly.

--- End quote ---

But that is exactly what the legislators are trying to do.  Do you disagree with the attempt to reduce e-waste?

--- End quote ---
I disagree with creating more and more feel good regulations by politicians with no clue of how things actually work. Many things that sound well are absolutely terrible in practice.  And I don't see how it can be required to use standard parts in a way that progress does not go down the drain. Who decides what is a standard part and where it's required to use a standard part? Is a standard part an MCU or a whole board? What if by using "standard parts" you need to use 10x more materials to do the same thing? Not to say as a small company you won't be able to make your part standard, so it will push out small players.
SteveThackery:
FWIW, I suspect making sure the electronics are repairable for 20 years is the least of your problems.  A failed ASIC is probably a show-stopper, but pretty much everything else is easy. We've all worked on electronics older than that. I've got a valve amplifier to repair which is about 65 years old, and it's perfectly repairable.

No, I suspect the real showstoppers will be things like complex plastic mouldings - basically stuff that is literally unique to one specific product.  Even then, in 20 years time we might well have the ability to scan in a 3D shape, "repair" it in your CAD program, and then print another. Indeed we can do it now, and it's only going to get easier.

Anything mechanical and metal will basically be fixable forever.
AndyC_772:
I'd start by visiting a local rubbish tip, looking in the e-waste bin, and taking an inventory. Any R2R rules would only need to cover, say, 80% of the weight of that bin's contents in order to achieve a really worthwhile goal. Anything representing less weight of rubbish than that would fall into the 'restrictions do more harm than good' category, which would exempt almost anything that isn't a consumer item, and spare the electronics industry as a whole an enormous weight of bureaucracy and restrictions for minimal gain.

What's left? TVs, washing machines, fridges, microwaves, etc. All kinds of stuff that can be - and therefore usually is - built down to an absolute minimum price with no regard for longevity or serviceability.

Here I completely agree, there's no good reason why spare parts shouldn't be routinely made available, kept available for a reasonable amount of time after a product has been discontinued, and supplied at reasonable cost to anyone and everyone as a matter of routine.

However, by weight, volume, or any other metric that can be meaninfully applied to e-waste, I don't think there's any real benefit to applying similar restrictions to lab equipment and similar. Landfill sites are simply not full of old scopes and power supplies; they're full of crap, bottom-of-the-barrel brand consumer goods that have lasted their 2 yr warranties and then died.
wraper:

--- Quote from: SteveThackery on July 08, 2024, 12:56:08 pm ---If you think 20 years is ridiculous (and you'd be in good company), tell us a non-ridiculous number and then justify it.

--- End quote ---
As I said above, there is no fits all number. Say who in hell needs 20 year old RAM for the price as when it was produced when it's basically worthless?
fmashockie:
I'm in a bit of agreement with wraper in that nailing down the parts availability law is a bit more challenging.  I think that has to come from us.  Again, if we as consumers weren't looking for the next/best trend/thing, asking a company to keep parts for a product that will be kept by the consumer for 10-20 years anyway, isn't ridiculous to ask.  And as I've stated before, there are companies that already do this because they make products that are built to last and are reliable.  Toyota is an example. I've got no idea what the percentage is (I would estimate > 75% of the parts on that vehicle are still available), but I do my own car repairs and I have yet to come across a part I couldn't order directly from the manufacture for my vehicle that is now > 15 years old. 

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