Fluke 1651 err1 when using continuity mode

[amateur_25]

Hi  Guys,

my fluke has developed a fault where when you use continuity it doesn't measure anything other than zero
When I short my test leads together it measures zero which am sure is wrong.

Even when I measure a 6 ohm resistor, it still displays zero.
It also shows err1 when testing during continuity mode but it then disappears and shows 0.00 ohms.
Occasionally when holding down the test button (which you meant to do on the flukes) I can hear the relay constantly click until I let go of the test button.

Does anyone have any experience repairing this fault/ where I can get schematic?
I do suspect one of the mosfet irl3410 dpak. It looks burnt.


 

[Big JJ]

Hi
 Just joined this forum and seen this post.
I repair these meters often. Err1 means it has failed self test for something. can be loads of things.
Does it read correctly on other things like voltage and frequency?
The 3410 mosfet is part of the HV inverter, this mosfet is driver from U2 Ucc3813 to provide drive for the primary of T1.
The continuity drive (200mA 20Volt) is done by turning on q304 (base driven from digital). U304 a UCC3813 driving Mosfet q305.

I often find  the measurement protection circuit has been poped, SCR2, R25 1k open circuit and CR11 a 36v zener.
All can be buzzed out in circuit.
Not sure if this board has a PM section but I may be able to give more if you PM me.

[jbomba]

Hi JJ, I thought I'd ask you for help with my 1664fc. I've had intermittent issues with it powering on. Now it will not power on at all. I've found a burnt out schotty diode on one of the Pcb and only 2.4 volts being passed to the display board. I assume it needs to be 3.3v. Just wondering if you would have any Idea where to source the following schotty. I guess I may have to send it to fluke for repair.

[jbomba]

I think I may have found the correct schotty diode. What do you think?

[url][/urlhttps://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/rectifier-diodes-schottky-diodes/5444584/

[Big JJ]

Hi Jonmba

Because the 1664FC is a current model, most are still under the three year warranty.
Fluke get very tetchy about protecting their service, a monopoly.

They will not repair a 165X series but offer you a discount on a new one, not worth having as you can buy new else where cheaper. A lot of people I know bought a replacement from Kewtech, no info for them either but easier to reverse engineer to fix.

Fluke will not provide any schematics, so have created big mountains of broken 165x meters, ready for land fill. You only have to see on ebay how weak they are. I add some extra protection for the inputs on any I fix.  They are not the company they used to be, our world needs to apply hard pressure for them to go back to how they were. Providing basic repair information in their manual.  I will not buy any new kit from them because of this. Rant over!!!

I have not yet reversed engineered the 1664 FC,  the layout is very different, I have one in the shop (easy fix as murdered front end) but cannot see where this location is.  But if the previous models are anything to go by then the digital board is driven over the ribbon with Vbat, then a TMS77033 (U103 on a 165x digital ) takes it to 3.3, that chip is powered all the time batteries are in. That chip is on the digital board. The Digital then commands other voltage regulators to turn using enable line.
Vbat supply comes from Analog 1 via a little-fuse (0.7) resettable fuse and a BAV99 to protect against reverse batter fitment. Vbat is fed to the digital board via the ribbon pins 1 and 3 +V and 17 ,19 gnd.

Hope this helps.

If you do manage to find any circuits (Kewtech Megger, Fluke etc) please drop me a line, PM me if that is possible . I know they exist as certain companies with Fluke's permission (and a hefty subscription I suspect) get online access. All I do is fiddle and supplement my pension looking st stuff no one else will.
I have had a lot of 165X that have been else where and are not fixable, most I have sorted unless the processor is blown or a big hole in the board. een some of them I have sorted with a bit of epoxy  and wire to repair tracks.

I do not need a circuit description as I can work that out from the circuits. I worked at a company called Wayne Kerr Electronics in Bognor Regis(have a surf). Designing and making test equipment Audio the AMS1 and Measurement B605,B905, 4225,4210 etc, that is how I cut my teeth back in the 70's. My eyes struggle with SMD but now have the kit to blow it all up and see clearly.

[jbomba]

So I decided to send my unit back to flukes repair agent In Australia. I have just been quoted 1000 Aud for repair. Your definetely correct in regards to a monopoly on repairs. Does anyone know which microcontroller these run? If we could obtain the firmware we could make a small fortune repairing them

[Big JJ]

The 165x series have two, one for the display board which chats to the other on the Analogue 2 board.
Both can have firmware updated.
1000 A$ dollars seems steep, not worth repairing. maybe that is their goal hoping you will buy another, if you do please buy another make.

I do know that it takes on average 2 hours fix plus 45mins cal to fix a 165X. Some more some less.
Most I see have been murdered.

The 165x uses a MSP430F449 on the digital board and a MSP430F149 on the Analogue one. Ti chips. This are not often damaged.

In my view Fluke are no longer the company they used to be,. They were the Rolls Royce of test equipment. Back in the 80's a piece of Fluke kit was the best standard kit you could get. I still have some now. Bench DVM's
They supplied the information on how to calibrate and repair. They also used to hold their price second hand too.
Now they are just throw away items, bad for the planet in my view.

[Mav_2014]

Just out of interest Big JJ -

26 steps on the setup for the early series. You apparently fix these, what's the value applied for step... let's say step 6?

34 steps for the B/C series setup. What's the value that needs to be applied for step 4?


Now I no longer do them either Simon at CTU (not an endorsement) or a chap named Ian are who you all need to find, they both know what they're doing with these.


To save people some time - for those that don't click it is nothing to do with firmware, let me just say that again, it is nothing to do with firmware, hopefully that sunk in. On power up press and hold F1 this will display the firmware versions in each processor, it isn't ever affected. Each tester has a set of calibration constants, as the components age and settle they shift in value, there are 2 tables the tester refers to, a dedicated set of values and it's own set of values. When table A drifts beyond the tolerance of table B the tester says stuff this and wipes it's values, the ONLY way to put the tester right again is taking it through a full factory adjustment process.

26 or 34 steps model depending, in which the tester recognises what values look like again 0-1kv 0ua-1200ma and accurate to 6.5 digits. The tester will also produce currents from the microprocessor again accurate to 6.5 digits, after which you tell the tester what current it has just given and as you go through this process the tester writes it's own values to memory SPECIFIC TO THAT TESTER AND SPECIFIC TO THE BOARDS THAT ARE MAKING UP THAT TESTER. As soon as you swap boards with another tester then the values are out of the window and the process needs to be repeated. Without the procedure, without the equipment and without realising the procedure is also written wrong for some of the steps you literally CANNOT produce a working tester any other way, there is no magic fix, there is no secret, the secret is having the equipment and the procedure and taking the tester through the learning process for it to write values of it's own specific to those boards inside.

So unless the relays engage on startup then it really is a waste of time unless you have the above to put them right again, you can't simply plant other settings into them as they're setting unique to another tester and no 2 are ever the same, because the interpretation of the applied and produced values are self taught.

So there we go! That's the secret to Fluke mft repairs. Those that the relays engage on are "usually" hardware issues, however not always! They are all however fixable.

Good luck

[Big JJ]

Hi Mav_2014

I am more than a little confused, I am not Rob and not aware I have spoken to you on other platforms.

Never said I have a mountain of testers I cannot fix!!! because I do not. I have had some that are so burnt inside that I have not even tried.
Have never asked people to send their testers to me to fix. I have my arm twisted by good customers to have a look for them as they have been returned from elsewhere.
I do repair equipment and have done for nearly 50 years. back in the 80's I worked for Wayne Kerr Instruments ( have a look on what they do)
Not sure what your question is, but I presume you mean step 6 on the early versions being Loop Z1 High current tests? Preferred unit is a 5320, which I do not have but have something better. the 5320 should have gold buttons for what it costs.
7 values to check (0.1 to 1800 ohms) on each L-PE and L-N to check within tolerance.
So I am confused on what your question is or the issue.

[valdiw]

Good morning,
I can see that the thread is already two years old. I have a question, what can be damaged in the 1651 model if it does not show frequency when measuring voltage?
Thank you in advance for your answer. Regards
Waldemar

[Big JJ]

Hi

The Fluke is a tricky beast. U316  OPA 2347 detects phase cross over point. First op amp pins 5,6, and 7 feed the next opamp pins 1,2, 3. Output on Pin 1 should give a waveform of frequency. This goes to U301 pin 13 TAO on the microcontroller.
Check resistors R373  1K, R375 100K, R347 100K.
On one end of R373 should get a waveform from AC input,  a waveform on pin 6 of the op amp. This feeds second op amp. Pins 2 and 3 of the opamps are the signal that is being compared to.

If correct voltage is displayed then other bits should be OK.

Hope that helps

[EHT]

I add some extra protection for the inputs on any I fix.

JJ, would you mind describing what enhancements you recommend to add for the 165* MFTs?

I have a 1653 which I fixed up by replacing an open circuit R62 in the RCD test circuit. I found the 165X service info to aid doing this. The unit looks pretty well made..

[valdiw]

Hi
It turned out that the meter only displays the frequency from a voltage of about 100VAC.

However, I have a problem with measuring the Insulation. With shorted PE and L conductors, it shows well, while when you try to measure the insulation, it displays Err1 error. I found that by connecting the PE and L conductors through a 100K resistor, it starts to measure, but the measurement voltage reaches 440 VDC and the current 4.5 mA. The result is the same in the 1000V range. I suspect the HV inverter is not working properly. The current it generates should be around 1.5 mA. The U2 circuit on the output 6 generates a 19kHz PWM signal in both cases.

Can you ask for a clue?

Regards, Waldemar