Fluke 199C scopemeter repair

[cozza]

I'd be keen for one of the keypad replacement boards, or to add one to your order if you're going to do a small production run. I use my 196B almost daily for work and it would be great to have a spare keypad standing by in case the foil keypad fails!

[lostking2008]

Good point. Thanks.

I don't mind sharing the gerbers. I am a bit reluctant because I am not proud of the connector placement. I would like to move it a bit down, so that it wouldn't need to be soldered a bit above the board, and it would be a bit easier to install the board. Perhaps I should make the change and run another batch, but I don't need them myself. Is there enough demand, say for 10 boards? Say, we call it $20 plus postage for one kit: board + connector + falt flex (with opposite-side contacts) for the new batch. I still have a couple from the first batch ($30 + postage).

[lostking2008]

Hi There, I need a memory module for Fluke 199C, but it has been discontinued by Fluke back in 2017. Unfortunately, the service manual doesn't come with the circuit drawing of the Flash/SRAM module (80 contacts in two rows, 0.8mm pitch) itself. Does anyone have a schematic drawing of the memory module?

Thanks,
Ken

[lostking2008]

Hi Feedback loop,

Just curious where did you obtain a blank flash/sram module for your Fluke 190 series scopemeter?

Thanks.
Ken


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FeedbackLoop
2 days ago
I do have a Fluke serial adapter. I would be interested in maintenance commands like loading firmware into a blank flash/sram module, maybe changing scope type from 196 to 199 and such. Any info on this? Thank you.



David V
David V
1 day ago
@FeedbackLoop  Sorry, the only information I have regarding the commands is the information that came on the original PM9080 interface disk (3.5" floppy version 1.3) for DOS. These are all ( two letter) operating commands. Fluke can be awfully stingy with information.



ken tsai
ken tsai
5 hours ago
@FeedbackLoop I was wondering if the optical port of the fluke scopemeter (essentially a UART port) can be explored by the OPEN on-chip debugger along with GDB (The GNU Project Debugger) to create breakpoints during the firmware loading process in Fluke 190 series scopemeter.



FeedbackLoop
FeedbackLoop
1 hour ago
@ken tsai I don't know. Sounds like a lot of work. Probably easier to make an adapter for a programmer to read-write the flash chips directly. At least for the models with a flash/sram module (19x B and C). This discussion is in a wrong place. Should we move it to https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-199c-scopemeter-repair/

[feedback.loop]

Hi Feedback loop,

Just curious where did you obtain a blank flash/sram module for your Fluke 190 series scopemeter?

Thanks.
Ken

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FeedbackLoop
2 days ago
I do have a Fluke serial adapter. I would be interested in maintenance commands like loading firmware into a blank flash/sram module, maybe changing scope type from 196 to 199 and such. Any info on this? Thank you.

I did not say I have it. I spoke hypothetically. Suppose we manage to produce one. How do we program it? I see only one method at the moment: building an adapter for a programmer to access the flash chips directly (with a jumper selecting one of the two chips), and copy from a working module, but that is a lot more additional work. It would be nice if there was a method to put a blank module into the scope and program it.

[lostking2008]

I believe one option is to make a blank Flash/SRAM module using memory ICs with alternative packages, e.g. TSOP-48 with DIP-48 socket adapter. Then it should be straightforward to program the two flash ICs individually with a universal programmer prior to assembling the memory module.

[/quote]
I did not say I have it. I spoke hypothetically. Suppose we manage to produce one. How do we program it? I see only one method at the moment: building an adapter for a programmer to access the flash chips directly (with a jumper selecting one of the two chips), and copy from a working module, but that is a lot more additional work. It would be nice if there was a method to put a blank module into the scope and program it.
[/quote]

[feedback.loop]

I believe one option is to make a blank Flash/SRAM module using memory ICs with alternative packages, e.g. TSOP-48 with DIP-48 socket adapter. Then it should be straightforward to program the two flash ICs individually with a universal programmer prior to assembling the memory module.

1. There is no room for bigger packages.
2. How do you propose to read a working module?

By the way, I ordered a TE connector you suggested (TE 5-5179009-3). Unfortunately, the slot is too narrow. It was not specified on the drawings because it is not a card edge connector, but a board-to-board connector, and should mate with a matching male connector. No luck. And I still did not figure out the schematic of the module.

[lostking2008]

1. The Fluke 199C comes with at least two type of memory modules, see some photos at
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/wanted-non-working-flashsram-memory-modules-from-fluke-190bc-series/msg3169542/#msg3169542

I tried the 5-5179009-3 Board-to-Board Receptacles. It seems a little narrow for the 1.2 mm pcb card type memory module (bottom photo in the above link), but it indeed can be pressed into the female connector.

The module (shown in the top photo of the above link) fits the TE connector better. This type of memory module will lay flat, paralleled to the main PCA. It saves more room than the cartridge memory module. So if a blank module can be designed like this it will accommodate four memory IC chips with TSOP-48 package or something similar.


2. Patpat proposed an excellent utility called FlashFW2bin back in 2017:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcontrollers/fluke-19xbcii-firmware-to-binary-converter/

This utility supposes to takes the firmware file (Tetra.ldf, or data.bin) from within Fluke's FlashTool
(F190_II_V11.44.exe, FlashTool_19xC_2xC_V804.exe, FlashTool_F190C_V615.exe, etc.)
and converts it into 2 binary files for analysis purposes. FlashTool_19xC_2xC_V804.exe still is on Fluke website. But I don't know how to run the utility because my Windows 7 won't do it.  Could you give it a try?

3. I concur the main obstacle right now is to figure out the schematics of the Flash/SRAM memory module pcb. It might be possible to remove the 4 memory ICs and trace the circuit for a donor or even non-working module.

 

[USMC_Spike]

This is good stuff, thank you Feedback.loop. 

I've gone through the process of trying to get my lowly 199 black & white meter
up and running as I've not used it in about a year.  We know the routine.
Dead battery, plug in and let is charge for a few hours and then get start it up.

I checked things then turned off the power while it charged over night
thinking I'd follow Feedback.loop and use a LIon battery pack that I'll
have to make.

Bad news is I think this battery pack died.  I tried to power up again and it wouldn't.
This is my second battery pack and they all do the same, they die on you and refuse
to start up again.

I know I'll need to add the 120K resistor, no problem.

QUESTION(S):

I can source six of the batteries to make the batterypack, no problem.
My question is to build the pyramid I'm not sure if I can solder leads to
the battery ends with out damaging them. Is there a method?

I assume that manufactured packs come from the factory with spot welded
leads and hook ups.  Then I learned that I have to use the parallel series
protection board...you mentioned you'd share the gerbers.

I'm not very experienced doing SMD, I have some practice boards that I
destroy all the time.  I've got no problems doing tube gear and older
test equipment as they have discreet components.  I don't have a
hot air attachment for my rework station, which I think is needed
as I'm good at melting the SMD parts.

So, what is the best way to proceed? 

Spike

[feedback.loop]

Gerbers were discussed with respect to keypad, not BMS. I always buy BMS. So many types are readily available for a few bucks.

[RCO_JOE]

@feedback.loop

I am a big fan of your personality and "Close enough" attitude on creating your solutions.  I have watched your battery replacement on the 199C at least 50 times before i made the attempt on my 199B.  I used a 100K resistor in series which produced a final voltage of  7.97 volts.  I just wanted to share this info because it is difficult to find the voltage to the resistance value on a project like this. 

My objective was to put abundant safety first in my scope since it will be sitting on the shelf more than being a daily used item.

[EHT]

I think the backlight on my 196B is starting to get a bit dodgy. It takes a little while to 'warm up' and it's now noticeably brighter in the bottom left corner. Perhaps it could be the HV supply to it but I suspect the lamp. I can't find a thread about fixing this. From the service manual it looks like the lamp is integrated into the LCD module    Anyone tried fixing the backlight? (maybe deserves a new thread if so...)

[smaultre]

Hi! Who know any terminal command to read the unit serial number? My two devices has abandoned stickers on back panel.

[feedback.loop]

Finally I got around to this project of replicating a memory module for Fluke 19xBC scopemeters.

[Runco990]

Wow... that is impressive! 

Should you decide to offer this in the future, I would be in the market for one module.   

[feedback.loop]

Wow... that is impressive! 

Should you decide to offer this in the future, I would be in the market for one module.   

Do you have a scopemeter with no memory module? What model? Do you care about the firmware version?

[Runco990]

I picked up a 199c a long time ago with hopes to repair it.... the module and battery were missing.
At the time, the scope meter was free, so I didn't care and shelved it for a better day.
If I can get it going, I already plan to do your battery mod. 
I DO know the scope works, as I had a chance to test it with a memory module from another one.

Love your videos, btw!  Always a treat!

Wow... that is impressive! 

Should you decide to offer this in the future, I would be in the market for one module.   

Do you have a scopemeter with no memory module? What model? Do you care about the firmware version?

[feedback.loop]

Uploading the firmware just in case anyone is interested.

[asis]

Hi,

Serial number of your "reference" scopmeter: DM8460252 (look at the back of the case, bearing in mind that the cover may be from another device)
.
The dump (s) you have read contain the SW, S / N and calibration constants of this instrument only with its actual serial number (DM840252).

Several years ago, I was not tasked with cloning the A201 module.

I just did the work of reverse engineering this module without unsoldering anything, in about the same manner as you did, and made an adapter for programmer, with the help of which, copied the contents of FlashRAM in two steps 16bit x 2 = 32 bit.

I copied working dumps v702, v804 from them and made an UPDATE to Fluke 225C with busheat and language support.

If you do this, your hands will be untied and you will feel confident.
The serial number of the device is fragmented and located in different SST39VF800A chips.

The most interesting is how do you UPDATE SW to v7.0 - v8.04?

Fluke stated that UPDATE SW from v6.12 to v7.00 can only be done at a service center with a 5500A or similar calibrator.

In any case, you have done a great job.

My congratulations.

[feedback.loop]

Hi asis,

Yes, the number is correct.
Please give more details. Where is the number located?
What connector did you use for your adapter? I could not find a suitable connector. Do you have a part number?

I made one more module and updated it to 6.15, which worked fine. No idea yet how to go to 8.04.
It seems I need to figure out the calibration process since the copied module does not match another unit anyway.
Looking at the documentation, it seems quite simple, and I have everything except one thing: a source of 50Vpp 1KHz square wave.
Perhaps I could arrange a special circuit for this, but that is another project.

[feedback.loop]

In the previous video this original Fluke memory module was taken apart to trace connections on the board and to read FLASH chips. In this episode the module was put back together.

[Per Hansson]

Very nice job!
Will you experiment with trying to make an external programmer for it now as some people theorized would be possible?
Would be nice to be able to make a safety backup of the CAL constants of the meter I have

[feedback.loop]

Very nice job!
Will you experiment with trying to make an external programmer for it now as some people theorized would be possible?
Would be nice to be able to make a safety backup of the CAL constants of the meter I have

That would be nice to have, but that is another project. So far I could not find a suitable connector. 40x2=80 pins 0.8mm pitch 1.2mm slot.

[Per Hansson]

There is only one connector on Mouser with a pitch of 0.8mm, but the slot seems to be 1.0mm:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity/440360-2?qs=WZRMhwwaLl8LRBi%2FdA7C5w%3D%3D

[feedback.loop]

It seems that DigiKey ran out of CY62146G30-45BVXI RAM chips I bought for my first version for about $2/piece. Similar Cypress chips are $7.7/piece. So I looked around and found ISSI IS62WV25616EBLL-45BLI for $3.55/piece. I ordered a few chips, and built one more memory module. Works fine.