Author Topic: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button  (Read 6613 times)

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Offline ElecSeb

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Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« on: December 18, 2015, 12:54:07 pm »
My first post on this forum, but after reading a lot time to make an account yeeeaaahh.
However the reason for posting is not fun :(

I have a fluke 289 which does not turn on. I measured the powercap and it was too low (0.8V), so replaced it with a new one (now 2.0V) http://www.digikey.nl/product-search/en?keywords=338-3477-nd with this part.
However after replacement it still wont turn on. When inserting new batteries and pressing the ON button I see a green flashing pattern (no screen). I can press whatever button I like without result. Also turning off in not an option (only taking batteries apart).

Pattern of flashing: 5 quick flashes followed by a period of nothing and then repeat.

Any thoughts. I have had a look on the board and found no burned elements.
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2015, 02:10:59 pm »
Don't these things have a lifetime warranty? Just send it back...

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2015, 02:18:21 pm »
Not if you are not the first owner.

Update: Just found out that there is some sort of shortage between Cathode and anode of the diode C79 AND L1 (that area.
Plus and GND are connected.
Already desoldered some parts but so far without luck. Unfortunately not much time 2day and tomorrow on vacation. Needs to wait a week.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 06:24:11 pm by ElecSeb »
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2015, 05:09:11 am »
Did you buy this 289 as working or non working?  If it worked, did it just stop working one day?
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2015, 06:45:09 pm »
Bought it non working. First started with the supercap.
By accident is measured in that area (where the plus sign is on the board) togteher with ground and found there is a short.
Should be in that region I suppose. Do not have an high res image at the moment since I am on vacation.

Would have started with looking up the IC which is close to the supercap.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2015, 11:56:16 pm »
Bought it non working. First started with the supercap.
My understanding of the supercap is that it only keeps time and date and does not affect the functionality of the meter itself.
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2015, 08:44:25 am »
That is what I read as well, however currently the + circuit from the battery is making a short with ground. Probably causing the meter to go bogus at this moment.
Will try to find a high def motherboard picture and draw in it where I measure zero resistance (single color).
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2018, 11:14:51 pm »
That is what I read as well, however currently the + circuit from the battery is making a short with ground. Probably causing the meter to go bogus at this moment.
Will try to find a high def motherboard picture and draw in it where I measure zero resistance (single color).
Did you have any success with resolving this issue? I ran into the same problem today.


 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2018, 08:45:55 am »
Hi Say, at this moment I am still busy with fixing this meter (and 2 others with similar problems).
Currently I am on vacation and have no real access to the physical meters, but would you be able to share some high-res pictures of the board (bare board).

Furthermore do you have removed the supercap before measuring and did you clean the area AND did the supercap leak?

Please share this info and pictures and I will see if I can help you (based on my current knowledge of this meter).

For your info, I have ordered an MSP programmer to program the MSP430 chip and have a buspirate for the NXP/Freescale.
With one I am still working on the torec PWM chip, because it seems to leak. Once that is fixed they need to be washed and I can start with rebuilding.
(And new pictures will follow)
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2018, 08:49:36 pm »
@ Elecseb

Here is a hi-res pic of the board. If this doesn't serve the purpose,  I can try for more pics of particular areas of the board. Taking a photo of the entire board has its own limitations.

The supercap had corroded top and it was obviously kaput as the meter didn't hold date and time when batteries were removed. It did not have any leakage as you can see in the second pic. So I did not feel the need for cleaning the board. Troubleshooting a multi-layered board is a daunting task. The available info on the internet doesn't show even a single success story :(

Happy vacations!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 11:50:54 pm by say »
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2018, 02:48:14 pm »
Since I am on vacation I will try to explain which measurements you can take to see where it is possibly broken.
What I would do:

1. Remove the corroded supercap!

2. Voltage (when power terminals powered, but device is OFF):
  • TP03 to GND
  • TP17 to GND
  • C67+ to GND
  • C68+ to GND
  • C89+ to GND
  • E41 to GND

3. Resistance (ohm):
  • TP03 to GND
  • TP17 to GND
  • C67+ to GND
  • C68+ to GND

Btw, in my case it was most likely that the NXP chip was lost... I removed it from the board and my short was solved...
As I said earlier, I will continue after my vacation.
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 08:35:34 pm »
Thank you ElecSeb for great tips. I'll be on vacations too in couple of days. Will get back to this on return. However, I couldn't locate the NXP chip. Is it one of those on the other sid of the board?
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2018, 12:56:30 am »

FWIW, mine has the crusty supercrapacitor still in there, and because of conflicting repair suggestions  and the fact the meter works fine (so far) with no apparent unreasonable battery draw,

I have left it as is and do a 6 month check on the stupidcapacitor.

Can anyone verify any possible ill effects of removing the cruddy supercapacitor and leaving the space blank?  :-//

I don't mind resetting the clock on battery swaps etc

i.e. can the logging feature, software/firmware and or main board/s go weird if there is no capacitor device to charge ?

You would think FLUKE would have posted an addendum sheet by now addressing this ISSUE on their flagship meter   :palm:


 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 03:56:38 am »
Unless mistaken Fluke never issued a recall for the supercap issue,   my 189 worked fine with no supercap while being ordered

Only time feature  / clock  did not work  until settled,  the clock will start a zero  .....  no problem ?
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2018, 08:32:14 am »

If cap is removed and the clock needs to get set every time on a fresh set of batteries,

and the logging timer functions still work ok on both 189 and 289, and records/logs ok

then TBH I would prefer to have no supercrapacitor in those two meters, so it's one thing less to think about  :phew:

-----------------------

I can only assume that once the clock is set, the recorded dates and times during logging should in theory be kept in some internal memory with the trend info, (which should only apply to the 289 ?)

regardless of the condition or omission of the supercapacitor


So if it's only the current clock that resets when swapping batteries, with no ill affect on 189 and 289 meters,

my brown bearded caps will see the battery recycle bin asap,
replaced by a swabbing of isopropyl alcohol and air !  ;D

 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2018, 08:35:47 am »
Without supercap the meter should work just fine.
If you remove CR17 & CR18 (dual diode) it is clear that when using battery power (9V) the clock should remain its values (not tested since I do not have a working 28x).

However when 9V removed and supercap removed the clock settings are reset to the beginning of time.
The reason to remove the rusty supercap is to eliminate a possible short on the supercap.
Since we are not at this specific meter we are unable to judge (even if it is possible) to see if it is the supercap.

Furthermore, since it is corroded it is best that after the unit starts working it gets replaced by a proper replacement (Panasonic of some sort).

It is true however that I have not seen many repairs (0) where such problems are solved. 9 out of 10 it is an FET which is broken (see other topics). However this issue blinking LED is never solved and I spent many hours searching online. This is the reason why I am trying to figure the thing out myself.

Thank you ElecSeb for great tips. I'll be on vacations too in couple of days. Will get back to this on return. However, I couldn't locate the NXP chip. Is it one of those on the other side of the board?

Correct, the square black BGA chip U26 (this is the heart of the 28x and e.g. controls your LCD), the MSP430 U13 (seems to do all measurements like in all other fluke products), they are talking to each other through a bus (not yet found/defined). The MSP has special JTAG higher frequency and needs to be programmed with appropriate programmer and the NXP is normal JTAG.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 08:41:24 am by ElecSeb »
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2018, 11:07:56 pm »
There are quite a few Fluke 289 owners at EEVblog to support a repair thread  :clap:

especially for non original purchasers,

and Ebay gamblers willing to take a shot at fixing the no go meters   :horse:  :D


LOL, we may find out more about the units internals than Fluke does after a few user/repairers exchange of troubleshoot data.

AFAIK Fluke just swap out the flakey boards and perhaps contribute them to the nearest landfill ?   :-//

« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 11:12:09 pm by Electro Detective »
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 06:16:57 pm »
@ElecSeb

Here is the requisite data:

1. Remove the corroded supercap!

It has been removed

2. Voltage (when power terminals powered, but device is OFF):

* TP03 to GND   --> 0.000V
  * TP17 to GND --> 3.232V
  * C67+ to GND --> 0.000V
  * C68+ to GND --> 0.000V
  * C89+ to GND --> 0.000V
  * E41 to GND.   --> 0.000V

3. Resistance (ohm):

* TP03 to GND.  --> 43K
  * TP17 to GND --> 628K
  * C67+ to GND --> 7.83
  * C68+ to GND --> 4.25K and increasing as it should.

I also detected shorts across C46 and C92 but can't trace where these caps are connected. It appears that there is a problem/short in LCD driving circuit.
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2019, 07:49:45 am »
I disconnected the 1.8V supply to NXP chip area that brought back most of the normal voltages on TPs except the 5 and 2.5 volts. These two voltage regulators are still disabled by MSP 430 because it cannot communicate with NXP chip. The blinking green power light also stopped blinking and is permanently ON now.

What might be causing a short in NXP chip or one of its tiny bypass capacitors is a question I might not be able to find out. Their micro size deters me from removing them for individual checking. Lot of tedious work ahead :)
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2019, 08:05:05 am »
I did not have a lot of time (and will not have untill after Tuesday).
What you described with the small C sounds like what I measured. I have on 2 boards the NXP removed so I can check if they still have it, OR not. Furthermore I have 1 with NXP in place and can test that one. Probably this afternoon.

I have measured all C's of you described and was not able to find a defect. What you can (Thinking out loud):

1. Measure 1 C (C46 or C92), when not defect.
2. Connect a PSU with expected V and enough A.
3. Search with IPA or Flir for a heated element.

My conclusion so far is that MSP and NXP are delicate and easy to break. Not sure how, but I have 3 defect MSP and 2 defect NXP.
Still waiting for my MSP programmer...
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 10:39:04 am »
@ ElecSeb, thanks for the tips. Perhaps someone could measure the resistance on C46, 55 & 92 with respect to the -ve battery pad. As well as on C79 + side. That will greatly help in isolating the fault.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 03:15:14 pm by say »
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2019, 05:33:48 pm »
@ElecSeb
I also detected shorts across C46 and C92 but can't trace where these caps are connected. It appears that there is a problem/short in LCD driving circuit.
All 3 boards I have measure short (0.6 \$\Omega\$ -> which on my old meter means short) for these 2 C (46 and 92).

Perhaps someone could measure the resistance on C46, 55 & 92 with respect to the -ve battery pad. As well as on C79 + side.

With respect to negative battery pad (for all 3 boards):
Code: [Select]
C46  = short -> 0 ohm
C55  = short -> 0 ohm
C79+ = +30kohm
C92  = short -> 0 ohm

Hope it helps.
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2019, 11:29:47 pm »
It sure does help. I'm reading 8.7  ohms on C79+. I removed all the tiny caps reading same value but that didn't resolve the problem. Without the schematics it's hard to know what to look for now. Wish we could somehow find a schematic !!!!! ;)
 

Offline ElecSeb

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2019, 07:31:05 am »
Bin here:
http://hmpg.net/
And back, but no SM or schematic...
 

Offline say

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Re: Fluke 289 does not turn on -> blinking green power button
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2019, 03:02:29 pm »
 [emoji106]    :)
 


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