"Frako" brand electrolytics in vintage gear - junk?

[cvanc]

So I've got an old piece of studio gear that has Frako electrolytics.  This is a brand I have not heard of before.  Any comments good or bad?

Thanks.

[frozenfrogz]

Frako is a German company specializing in power capacitors and reactive power control for heavy industry that have been in business since 1928 (and still are).

These are quality parts as far as I can tell.

[bd139]

Yes good parts. Have seen UK ministry of defence buying them.

[floobydust]

Good quality but do not expect them to last forever.
European electrolytic capacitors, many brands had rubber bungs that leak and the cap drys out.
Philips blue axials from the 80's and 90's are an example of crap.

[rsjsouza]

Good quality but do not expect them to last forever.
European electrolytic capacitors, many brands had rubber bungs that leak and the cap drys out.
Philips blue axials from the 80's and 90's are an example of crap.

Funny you mentioned that. I have several dozens of Philips blue axial caps from that era that are still going strong, while some failed. I estimate a failure rate of 20~30% of my stash.

[bd139]

They all have exceeded their likely design life by a big margin so should we really be complaining?

The ones that exploded after 2-3 years in PCs were the big problem.

[floobydust]

I've replaced hundreds of Philips electrolytics in Neve recording consoles, and now on sight the parts are tossed in the garbage.
Philips rubber formulation is proven not as good, didn't last. Many other brands outlasted them significantly.
Siemens caps which resemble the Frako are doing fine.
But for the few dollars to replace those, that's what I do and the equipment is good for a few more decades. Rubber formulations have improved, neoprene is used now.

Yes we should be complaining when a capacitor fails due to defective materials, i.e. Rifa, Philips blue or chinese crap that forgot to add the corrosion inhibitor to the electrolyte.

[T3sl4co1l]

Funny, a friend who does a lot of electronics repair, just recapped a rather swanky Revox unit chock full of this brand.

I told him, "They're Commander Riker's favorite breakfast cereal: Frake-O's!"

Regardless of quality, a near half-century is simply too much to ask from electrolytics.  Check ESR and leakage under bias if you like, but I would be quite happy to replace them wholesale if it were my decision.

Tim

[james_s]

Yes we should be complaining when a capacitor fails due to defective materials, i.e. Rifa, Philips blue or chinese crap that forgot to add the corrosion inhibitor to the electrolyte.

What makes you say the materials are defective? Did the parts fail within their rated design life? If so then you can complain, otherwise they lasted at least as long as they were claimed to last. Just because some other parts happened to last a lot longer doesn't make the shorter lived parts defective. If you get even 20 years of use out of an electrolytic capacitor you're doing pretty well.

[floobydust]

I've gotten 1 year and others 40 years life out of electrolytics. Operating voltage, temperature, humidity, ripple current - all affect lifetime.
Where is the line? Where is your 20 year number from? Manufacturers spec a lifetime at 85° or 105°C but translating that into lifetime at 25° or 30°C is very difficult. I have no lifetime claim for Frako or Philips parts.
The only data I have worked with is doing FMEA you have to get failure rate data for the part, it's used in aerospace and other critical hi-rel products where lifetime is important.

I do observe the rubber bung in Philips and some German electrolytic capacitors cracks, and the electrolyte dries out. Rarely seen in North American or Japanese electrolytics. OP's board is 1991.

[Alex Nikitin]

That is one brand that I would replace in any old gear immediately, these are known for causing trouble, including severe damage to the equipment.

Cheers

Alex

[floobydust]

I looked on the web and these Frako are known for failing, short. As a filter cap, hopefully the fuse blows...
Note they have no safety vent  This is from an era when capacitors were boss.
OP, spend the few dollars and replace them.

[bd139]

As said earlier you'll find them in defence stuff. No vents because the boards were coated afterwards. No worries because the stuff had a defined service life.  If shit blew up, you shredded it without repair and it was in a large aluminium casting anyway.

But yes, replace them. Because service life has certainly expired.

[Electro Detective]

Visually they look ok but you never know 

IMHO if they are easy to get to and that vintage gear is worth the bother (keeper) to have it in A+ shape

buy some quality replacements, remove the old ones, and do comparison tests 'old vs new' (ESR and the usual suspects) before fitting in the new ones

This way you'll have a fair idea if the Frako caps can go the distance, and a heads up for the next piece of gear that may have them.

You should test new caps anyway, you just don't know what you're getting at any price nowadays 

[cvanc]

Thanks everyone.

These were definitely bad but with 1983 date codes they didn't owe the world anything.  Also the environment they were in was probably a cramped 19 inch rack with no spacer panels between devices.  So... yeah.

Any of you who have those blue 'Made In Holland' Philips caps still running are luckier than me, I was actually thinking of those when I asked about these Frakos.  Every one I've seen for the last ten years (at least) had already died of old age.

These have been replaced already and the brand is added to my 'always renew' list.

Appreciate the input.

[Electro Detective]

I just gotta ask 

In the photo, is that the gunk from the capacitors ? 

or the horrible crusty barbequed glue used to secure them to the board? 

or a combo of both the leaked gunk and glue ?

I ask because I have removed old but good capacitors that were shorting on the board
due to the glue bridging the contacts at random via temperature drifts

fwiw the cleaned up old Rubycon caps tested just as good as the new ones, and were not leaking,
just the multicoloured glue was at fault, and made them appear leaky. 

I cleaned up similar units with same problems, and they performed fine once the old caps were cleaned up and re-soldered

An experiment that seems to have paid off, as no replacement caps to order in, or comebacks... yet 

[cvanc]

It was gunk from the capacitors.  There was no glue.