Author Topic: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player  (Read 13659 times)

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Offline cat87

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Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:31:33 am »
Hello fellow forumers, I need some help or advice in diagnosing a recently bought Sony CDP-X339ES  CD player (I bought it knowing it was defective)

The issue with this player is that when I put a CD in, it gives it a slight spin, then a clicking sound can be heard, the CD disk stops, then again, the player tries to spin the disk, then the click is heard again and so on. This goes on for about 10 - 15 seconds.

To put things into perspective even more, I have made a short video showing this behavior (excuse my horrible filming skills)



Now, my best guess regarding that clicking sound is that the focusing lens is hitting the disk, while trying to focus. On the other hand, I also suspect something might be wrong on the spindle mechanism / motor assembly

Here's what I know so far that works: the actual laser diode works, the sleigh moves back and forth (when I power on the player), and the focusing mechanism seems to be working (focus lens moves up and down)

Any advice / help on this matter  is welcome.

Thank you

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 05:34:09 pm »
Ok, so  I tried putting in  a  CD and whilst the spindle was trying to spin it, I gave it a little push. At a certain speed, the clicking went away, but still the spindle motor did not start.

Could this be  as simple as a dead spindle motor?

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 06:00:10 pm »
Nope, not the spindle motor. Took the whole thing apart, put some 3.5 Volts on the spindle motor and it turns, no problem. So it's back to the " lens hitting the disk" question.

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2016, 06:38:11 pm »
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2016, 06:52:37 pm »
Thank you, but I already have the service manual for this unit.

The issue still seems to be something to do with  lens not focusing right. That's what I think, at least.  Going to see what rabbit hole I  go into when searching more about this.

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2016, 07:05:03 pm »
Thank you, but I already have the service manual for this unit.
But people who want to help you don't....
The issue still seems to be something to do with  lens not focusing right.
For sure, you already tried to clean the lens. In this case, the first thing to do is to replace and adjust the optical device KSS-272A. But I am afraid this part can not be found easily.
 That's what I think, at least.  Going to see what rabbit hole I  go into when searching more about this.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2016, 07:11:51 pm »
Laser emission is low. Either you buy a new KSS laser block and install it, or you adjust laser power up slightly to compensate. Slightly increasing laser power will probably give a good enough return to get focus, which will then allow the player to read the TOC and play.  If laser power is good and still no joy then it is a worn spindle motor, it should run with a disc in the player with 1V applied, otherwise it is worn and needs replacing.

Please note that often the replacement block is supplied as a slightly different part, an improvement over the original, and you will need to set laser power with a power meter and adjust the little pot on it along with having removed the shorting blob during installation that was there to protect the laser diode from ESD damage in shipping. Used units may not have this link, and might either work without adjustment or may not work at all either from being low emission or blown laser from high current or ESD damage.
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2016, 07:48:06 pm »
Thank you for the replies.  I tried adding some "spacers" to the spindle, in hopes of raising the disk a couple of tenths of millimeters, but no joy.
I cut some round piece of paper, with a big hole in the middle and added them on the spindle platter. With 0.12 mm  thick paper (handy to have a micrometer around the house) and still the clicking sound persisted. Then, tried with a 0.35mm heavy paper and this time, only a single click came out of the old cd player...after that, it kept giving me "No Disc", so obviously that was too high...just to confirm a hunch, I'm going to try an ever  an even thicker piece.

I'm going to also try to see the S Curve on an oscilloscope and some other signal that are in the Service Manual. Maybe I can get a cue of what's going on from those.

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2016, 09:02:58 pm »
Also check if there is no damage or wear to the linear motor and slides.
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 06:35:27 am »
Just had a crazy idea. Maybe I should also check the voltages  on the board of the optical unit, along with the other signals. If I'm going to have a whole forest of breakout wires, why not add a few more.
Maybe when the  unit tries to start up there's a voltage rail that sags and causes a reset to the whole unit.

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 06:27:34 pm »
Ok, so after following the first rule in troubleshooting, thou shall always measure voltages, I stumbled across the first palpable lead so far.

There is a  regulated -2V rail, VEE, that is used as GND for some op-amps and the  motor drivers, which includes the spindle. It's kind of confusing though, because on the PCB, it's labelled as "-2V", and in the schematic it shows a "-0.2" on the Emitter of the regulator.
Also, on the oscilloscope,  I've noticed positive spikes in this rail, going up to about  +1V or so, these coinciding with the knocking sound I hear.

I've added a pic of the scope and a screen capture from the service manual, showing the VEE line (blue trace) and the components connected to it. (the VEE line is the  discontinuous line and the red line, in the pics)

Now, when sitting idle, the voltage is indeed -2V (that's what it says on the PCB), the spikes, as I've said, appearing only when the clicks are also present. 

Of course the only question is what's causing this, and why does the voltage go up to +1V

Also, looks like there's a reset line, which is the yellow trace on the scope, and that's held high all the time, also during the "clicks"
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 06:47:14 pm by cat87 »
 

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 07:24:29 pm »
Check (ESR - capacitance) or replace C955 1000µF 10V and C952 3300µF 10V.
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2016, 08:12:57 pm »
I just took both caps off the board and measured the capacitance and ESR, the latter with an ESR adapter, and both caps seem "annoyingly"  good. But, on the other hand, this is what I'd expect from Elna and Nipon Chemicon caps.
Another thing I tried was to whack a cap in parallel with C955 , 1000uF, Low ESR Sanyo. The spikes seemed to have gown down a little in amplitude, but only 0.3 or 0.4 V.
So, either the regulator isn't doing it's job properly, or something is pulling down that rail when the spindle is trying to start. Here's hoping for the cheaper version (i.e. a malfunctioning PNP)

Next would be to either check the PNP transistor or replace it,  or to apply  from "outside"  my own -2V and see what happens....although I'm a bit reluctant with the latter one.


Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2016, 09:18:28 pm »
If C955 and C952 are good, this means that this variation of the -2V rail is probably a result (too high current) and not a cause of the fault.
No need to go further in this way.

You should now look for what is consuming too much current: linear motor ? Spindle motor ?....
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2016, 06:47:30 am »
Yes, I was kind of wondering that myself, if this is a cause or an effect of the actual fault. The thing that got me asking this question to myself is that when I power on the player and the the optical block moves back and forth, I can also see some small increases in amplitude on the -2 V rail, of about 0.4V, so it's most likely an effect of the linear motor  moving...although, even so, it should still maintain better regulation.

Anyway, I'm starting to wonder if that click I hear is actually the linear motor, hitting the end of the rail, and not the lens hitting the disk. And this hitting against the end, may be causing an increase in current, making the VEE line droop.

Now I just have to find out why it may be doing this.

In the pic below, I have marked with orange the regulated VEE line, , at -2V,  and with green,  the VEE line for the linear actuator controller, which seems to be taken before the regulator,  straight from a transformer winding.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 07:40:04 am by cat87 »
 

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2016, 09:30:01 am »
You should know that most CD players failures are wearing breakdowns or mechanical defect (wears: motors, lens, laser, play in gears, - mechanical failures: broken tooth in the gears, motors, belts) rather than electronic failures.
When it comes to electronic failures, it is usually power supplies or output stage of motor control failures.

The great thing is to have in reserve a reading unit (optical unit + mechanical transport block) in perfect working condition and test the CD player with this unit.

This helps locate the fault in the electronics or in the reading unit.

NB: picture of a broken tooth of a Sony cdp-xa2 gear.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 09:42:24 am by oldway »
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 12:27:34 pm »
Ok, so I've disconnected the spindle motor, put a CD in and the clicking is still there, so it's not  the spindle motor making the noise. So  it's either the linear motor or the lens making the clicks. I'm leaning more towards the linear motor and / or driver , because of how the VEE line behaves.
I'm basing this on the fact that if the lens were to indeed hit the  disk itself, the driver coil for it wouldn't cause such large voltage spikes.
Also, if indeed the liner motor driver for the sleigh was at fault, i guess it wouldn't move it at all, even when I power on the  CD player, am I right ?

Offline SeanB

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 02:20:36 pm »
Clicking is the lens hitting the disc or the end stop during the initial focus sweep, where the laser is powered then the focus motor is driven with a triangle wave to try to find a focus point on the disc. Once focus is achieved then the spindle motor is commanded to spin up, the focus loop tracking the surface till the motor speed gives something valid data wise out of the recovered lead in, which then is used to lock the speed loop and then the control starts to slowly track outwards to try to read the TOC data block.

No motor run says no focus, which is either caused by the supply being poor (check voltage across C952 for ripple as the system starts up, often caused by a high value Th902 fusible resistor) or the laser being low, or the optical block having a dirty lens. If the optical block is fine then check laser drive for dry joints or open or high value current sense resistors. There is a procedure to turn the laser on so you can check the diode feedback is giving a usable power output and the correct laser current, along with how to set it using the pot on the laser block.
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2016, 02:55:36 pm »
I've checked the voltage on C952, and the ripple on it, when the CD player is idle is about 200mV. Also, its ESR is somewhere about 35-40 mOhms.
TH902 seems fine also. My crap DMM shows 0.7 Ohms, so I can call that acceptable.

I've also scoped the voltage across C952 (second picture), just before  the -2V VEE regulator. Maybe the spikes are cause by the feedback coil of the actuator. Like oldway said, this might be an effect, and not the cause.

@ SeanB: would that feedback from the diode be the "S curve" the manual talks about ? Also, in the Service Manuals that I've found on the net, none says anything about a detailed troubleshooting procedure such as turning on the laser. It only says something like "put in disk  bla bla bla and check that this signal looks like this".
Do you know where I might find this procedure that you've mentioned ?  Also, there is no mention of how to properly calibrate the laser power  |O


Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2016, 06:34:11 pm »
Ok, so the linear motor for the sleigh is not the culprit. I've put some lead wires on the power to that linear motor, turned on the player,  I let it do it's back and forth movement, then I  put in a CD, and after the second  "click", I disconnected the linear motor....and the click was still there, so now I have confirmation that this  indeed  has to do with the  focusing / tracking mechanism.

Also, this is the culprit that takes the VEE line out of regulation.
Now, if  the actual focus coil driver was at fault, it would not move the focus coils  up and down at power on, right? And I can clearly see the lens moving when powering up, so my only thought is that the VEE regulator is the guilty party here i.e. D964, Q951.

In light of this new information, I've proceeded to do some measurements on the PNP and the Zenner. The  Zenner D964 is a 7.5V one. The measured voltage drop across it  is 7.3V, but this drops to 6.5V, not when the linear motor is moving, but only when the focus coil is moving. So, there's something loading it....and it's not the Linear Motor driver, that taps  the anode of D964. Also since the Cathode of D964 is connected to the +5V rail, I've measured that also, and during all operations, the 5V rail is nice and stable.

The Collector of Q951 is at -2.36 V (with respect to GND) but this drops to about -1.8 V when the focus coils are moving.

The actual VEE line  (which is labeled as -2V on the PCB) sits at about -1.7V, and this drops to -1.13 V when the focus coil is moving. Also, the manual isn't very helpful here, because it gives some wacky voltages around Q951, that have no logic.  (i.e. 4 V on the PNP's collector)


Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2016, 11:28:51 am »
Well, it's not Q951 at fault. I've replaced that with a similar PNP and still the same behavior. Also, I've taken C956 off, which is connected to the base of Q951, and capacitance value is OK, also the ESR (about 0.8 Ohms, datasheet specifies this series as having 1.4 Ohms ESR)

All I have left is the Zener itself, after which, I will have to start suspecting either a faulty driver for the coils or indeed, as some have said, poor laser power. But this last one is a bit of a mongrel, because the adjustment pots are on the optic block, underneath the tray. So to do calibration on this thing, while a CD disk is in is impossible....at least without me knowing the proper calibration procedure.

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 09:16:49 am »
When the laser beam is weakened and the laser unit has difficulty reading the TOC of the CD, especially cd-r's, (trying several times, accelerating and braking the cd)  we can improve the situation somewhat by increasing the laser power.

But this is not a long term solution.

When there is no focus at all, or the laser is completely dead or there is some other cause.

In my opinion, it is not with a laser power setting that you will solve the problem.

I think you should replace the optical pickup KSS-272A block.

I have 4 old CD players who are irreparable because spare parts are no longer available or because their price is prohibitive.

NB: check first if LDON (connector CN102) is active when cd player try to read the cd.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 09:32:16 am by oldway »
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 10:40:35 am »
Ok, I scope the LDON signal and see what I get. 
Also, I've thought  about swapping IC 152 and IC 142 between them, just in case  IC 152 is the one pulling the VEE line down (or rather up) If not, I'll begin suspecting  IC 102.

In case the optical block needs to be changed, I've got a KSS-271A from a 333 CD player.  Just swap the T+ and T- and connect a pin from the laser driver to GND, and it should be OK....hopefully it won't come to this.

Offline oldway

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2016, 11:37:25 am »
If clicking sound is that the focusing lens is hitting the disk, it is something that can't occur because it will dammage both disk and lens.
In this case, you are right to look after an electronic fault who has nothing to do with laser beam, nor even with the optical pickup KSS-272A block.
In my opinon, focus coil is FCS.
You should measure the signal on pin 11 of IC102.
 

Offline cat87

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Re: Help repairing Sony CDP-X339ES CD player
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 08:05:56 pm »
I managed to fit some lead wires on the optic unit itself, in order to see some signals that might be of interest. The first is the LDON signal (First picture) This looks like it's happily going about it's business, and it is ON when powering the CD player on, when inserting  disk....it looks OK.  Note that the LDON signal is the yellow trace, while the blue trace is the -2V line.

The second signal is Pin 25 on IC 102 (Second picture, yellow trace) and this looks like it's following the click that I hear, also visible in the -2V line (the blue trace) as rising peaks. The signal is the output from the comparator for the  SRDR and SFDR signals.

The third signal is Pin 11 on IC 102 (Fourth pic), basically what would be the signal from the feedback coil. Now this looks kind of promising....there's a nice ramp, and at some point, the signal  falls abruptly (for about 70-80 ms), the comes back, and so on, this also coinciding with the rises in the VEE line. This signal comes straight  from the Digital Servo,  IC 101, so my guess is that this wouldn't have any reason to behave like that, would it ?

Also, I scoped the same line when the CD player is turned on (last picture) and it moves the lenses, to figure out if there already is any CD inside, and,  with no disk inside,  I see a nice ramp, so it's hard to believe that IC 102 is at fault here.....
Maybe some of the comparators, IC 151, IC 152 are causing this. Or maybe there's something actually going on to the digital servo controller (bad caps, resistors...) ?

I'm kind of stumped right now.



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