Help with Tektronix TLA5000/TDS5000 motherboard

[Joebeazelman]

I have a TDS5054 and a TLA5202 logic analyzer with a dead motherboard. The housing is identical on both machines and the CPU board is just a generic Intel-branded micro-ATX motherboard. There are two variants of it, however. Can you spot the differences from the first two photos?

The dual USB port is adjacent to the keyboard mouse port on the first one, but on the second one it's between the VGA and USB/Ethernet port. Unlike standard PC cases with IO snap in shields, the ports are punched out from the tray.

Since I'm not running a museum, I would rather upgrade the bad motherboard to either an LGA775 or possibly an LGA1155. Unfortunately, I have the first variant, an Intel D865GLC based on the 865G chipset with socket 478 CPU. As Murphy's Law would have it, finding a modern replacement for it will be a challenge. Its IO layout is extremely uncommon and only found on a few motherboards of its era.

Nevertheless, I am considering two options. One way is to simply cutout the entire IO area to fit a IO shield of the new motherboard. It's simple to do with a jigsaw or Dremel and a router. My pride won't allow me to butcher the case, even though it's battle scarred. The best repair doesn't look like a repair.

The other solution is to find a modern motherboard with the closest IO layout match and surgically move the ports around. Some ports can be transplanted such as the USB ports. Others would have to be added as panel mounted IO and connected internally through headers on the board or PC Cards, similar to how they are mounted on PCI expansion cards brackets.

Any thoughts suggestions?

[coromonadalix]

your best  will be a cut out section, unless you find an absolute match ?? wich as you know may be harder

or by miracle to find a 5000 frame and do some operation ??

and yes the changes are because of the motherboard generation,  i think  the on with more usb ports is the newest variant


but  do you want to save both or only one equipment ?   a full body transplant / frame etc   could be possible ?

but at some point,  the best upgrades when possible is : more ram, max out the qty and max the cpu model it can have ...

and for the os   it depends if the Tekscope SW can go up to XP   you wont put W7 in this  loll


some thread here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds-5104-iso-image/

[Joebeazelman]

XP is the latest?  Yikes! If that's the case, then all the network ports should be removed. LOL!

[colorburst]

My first preference would be to repair the original motherboard. The second would be to find a replacement board, Intel desktop boards are relatively common, at least here in the US. As a last resort, I would get a contemporary board and desolder the ports that don't fit, you wouldn't need most of them except for a USB and maybe an Ethernet port. I like having mine on my home network so I can move screenshots around.

I would advise against upgrading to a more recent motherboard. First of all, there is little benefit because you'd have to keep the old slow W2k. I'm told WinXP can also work but with possible GPIB-related blue screens. The "firmware" has some questionable things regarding timing and concurrency, so its reliability with a faster/multi-core CPU is uncertain. I recall reports of crashes if Windows boots too fast and the vxworks board can't keep up.

Secondly, on non-B TDS5000s there may be BIOS incompatibilities with the PCI interface card, the system wouldn't boot at all. Your pictures show later B-series scopes and the socket 478 implies the same, but I'm pointing it out just in case. Edit: isn't this the TDS5054 s/n B020xxx seen recently on eBay that was smashed with a hammer? If so, it's an early non-B scope and BIOS problems are likely. The original board would've been fitted with a socket 370 Pentium 3.

Thirdly, the motherboard is powered via a series of SMD fuses on the PCI interface card. If the power draw is different on your replacement motherboard, you risk blowing those, and then you'd have two boards to repair.

Fourthly, the integrated IO aperture provides some structural rigidity to the case. There is a chance it'll become wobbly once you enlarge the opening. Tek probably had a good reason to stock half a dozen different backplate designs.

So in short, I don't think it's worth it at all.

[coromonadalix]

same toughts ...   

not derailing the thread

I'm playing with an 7404, i have ordered an non supported nlx motherboard from a gateway pc (Intel 815)

Normally all the pcb's for theses are the (Intel 810) or the old 440 ... the mobo is fine, but it's a nightmare to restart it .. i dont have any originals installation cd's

The slim drive is very picky,  no burned 4x cd-r  works (win98se nor win2k),  and finding theses at low cost are zits,  vintage = huge $$$

Bought some dell ones at 9$  and waiting

I'm not sure if TEK as done something in the bios to cripple them down,  yes the TEK logo, and bios access in some cases,  but i think hardware side too,  i can not fit more recent drives exceeding 10 gb, nor better slim drives ...
 

Not sure 
But i think you can push XP into theses ... xp had very good driver compatibility mode  .... and sometimes  fiddling with the windows version detection in the inf driver(s) file(s) could help

But you need to max out the RAM an CPU  ... and removing all the XP crap and un-needed stuff / startup files etc ...

[Joebeazelman]

Thanks a bunch!

The motherboard I showed is incorrect. I have the non-B version (last photo). I didn't bother digging it out of the box for a proper comparison, but went by the online photos. Mine only has a single ethernet port on the right, making it a third variant. I also found that myTLA5202, which should arrive shortly, is yet another variant. It has an empty region where the USB ports usually are (modified original message to include it). There are probably more variants out there. I forgot to mention there's also a VM 5000 series designed specifically for video analysis.

As for the motherboard, it is toast, gone, adios, via con dios. The screen is completely broken, and its the aluminum enclosure warped. Luckily, I was able to salvage the CFL backlight from the LCD. The back panel suffered a large puncture, which folded in and shredded the edge of the motherboard. I suspect it was in the grips of a claw at a recycling center about to be dropped into a shredder until someone realized its value and intervened.

Well this certainly alters my plans. I had already speced out a nice LGA1155 with USB 3 and almost the same panel IO layout. I figured going faster can’t make it worse--Windows is unsafe at any speed. I did see an identical board online, but it was over $200! Looks like I will have to perform surgery on the panel regardless. I

So here are my question. Perhaps it won’t work with LGA1155, but could it work with at least a LGA 775? Would not a motherboard replacement mitigate the BIOS incompatibilities? I am assuming the only difference between the different models is the motherboard. Correct? Finally, you said the PCI interface card powers the motherboard? Do you mean the PSU supplies power to it, and in turn it powers the motherboard?

Btw, what's eBay?

[Joebeazelman]

Awesome. Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing myself. Windows XP, from what I remember, was backwards compatible with window 2000. The box is licensed for Windows Millennium Embedded which is essentially Windows 2000 basic.

The auxiliary board runs on a PowerPC and they're known for overheating and flaking out badly. So it's hard to interpret whether the claims are a genuine incompatibility problem or general hardware failure. Moreover, the PCI bus is fairly robust at bus mastering, since devices can run at any speed. The drivers could be poorly written, but bad drivers fail spectacularly and regularly.

The strongest evidence that you can upgrade the motherboard to a later model is from Tektronix. They offer an upgrade kit which replaces the motherboard with a non-Intel board made by Avantech, the AIMB-562, which is an LGA775 board:

 https://tektronix-docs.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/tektronix-docs/AWG5012B/050-3722-00+and+050-3723-00+Manual.pdf

The kit works across all the Tektronix instruments with a built-in scope. The kit's contents only mentions a motherboard and an audio driver CD. There's no other hardware included or OS, meaning it's a drop in replacement.

The Advantech site has a bunch of drivers for the board, including XP and 2000:

https://www.advantech.com/en/search/?q=AIMB-562&st=support&sst=Driver

I suspect Intel didn't want to ramp up production for Tektronix, whereas Advantech was.

Someone on this forum managed to install a DQ77MK motherboard, which is an LGA1155 and has it working successfully, but it's hard to say since they didn't mention trying out the GPIB interfaces:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tds5054-motherboard-upgrade-problems/

The DQ77MK is even more advanced than any of the boards I looked. Well, we should at least give it a try.

[colorburst]

I see, that board is unrepairable indeed.

The PCI IRQ routing error in the linked thread is very relevant here. They also had an early TDS5054 like yours and could only upgrade to a slightly better Pentium 3 platform despite trying several different motherboards. Sticking to an Intel-made board from that generation would be your safest bet.

The last comment about using a DQ77MK board pertains to a TDS5054B as they mentioned elsewhere. The B series does not have this problem. Likewise, the Tektronix upgrade kit is only specified for TDS5000B series scopes.

Yes, the power supply plugs into the PCI card, which has a cable going to the ATX connector on the motherboard. PCI cards for the B series also provide the P4 12V connector, which is required by all modern boards but absent from Pentium 3 scopes.

[coromonadalix]

I would say go try it,   if you can answer every driver details in device manager, it should go fine

Xp is a very good OS to try compatibility mode for W9x era drivers ... 

Win2k is good too, but it come from the NT era Nt4 Nt3.51, it test memory intensively while booting, it is slightly more picky than XP ...

Going windows 7  loll   that i want to see  loll   that one too has a very good compatiblility mode, accept tons of "old stuff"  but get heavier on ressources at some point, some trimming is needed


If the internals have eveything you need for the supply lines etc ... why not ?? 

But yes one thing is  current consumption in all of theses possibilities   The 5k frame has it's limit ??

In the upgrade kit PDF  they say B and non B model are related to the same AIMB-562 Motherboard model at the end, just different part number kit ?

Unless there is a bios change ??  or an added TEK logo at boot ??

Anyways. it's a matter of finding the most compatible layout vs performance / compatibility / Os side  etc ...  finding the perfect match, but not "ruinning" yourself  loll

And for the AIMB-562  i see 2 pcb variations on the pci and pci-e ports ...