Author Topic: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted  (Read 2578 times)

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Offline charlyd

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Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« on: October 21, 2018, 02:41:14 pm »
Hello I have a logic Analyzer model 16702B i have some questions about this unit.......

-> i want to replaced the SCSI disk for a SDcard.  i want to create a backup -> restore action.
       but my Logic Analyzer boot disk is a HP-UX  and i need help on what tool to use and howto (sorry,  i am a windows guy  |O) ?

-> are there also people how have extra licenses for this unit ( i have 1 and can exchange if you want..or who can help me out with them...?

-> what model cards are the best to buy to troubleshoot TTL & CMOS line.
    current cards are
       -16522 
       -16550A
       -16556A
       -16557D ( DLP path error & DLP accel error ) need to be replaced...by same or better choise.. advise wanted.
       -16557D
 
 
 

Offline PaulAm

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 02:05:48 am »
Do a search on the forum, there was a discussion recently on SSD cards for the 16700.  The bottom line is the system is picky on the SCSI interface adapter you use.  Good luck on that.

You could do a copy from HP-UX, but the easiest way is to just reload the latest software on the SSD.  All of the licenses are available, but you can save and restore your current licenses if you want. 
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 09:33:59 am »
hi thanks for your reply.   ok to respond to your tips..

Do a search on the forum, there was a discussion recently on SSD cards for the 16700   - i did and will do again but..nothing on backup /restore..

You could do a copy from HP-UX -  i found the version 2.90 iso file.

but the easiest way is to just reload the latest software on the SSD - i am a noob on HP-UX is this a bootable iso and howto burn it to CD so it will be recognized and boot?

All of the licenses are available, .  - where can i get those??

but you can save and restore your current licenses if you want - yes i know to floppy i can save them but in my unit there is only 1 license in the list ...should be nice to have more not??
 

Offline PaulAm

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 12:04:10 pm »
Start reading every post on the forum having 16700/16701 or 16702 in it.  There is a LOT of material there.

Join the HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment group on groups.io and search the archives again for 16700/16701/16702.  There was a post a year or two ago where someone put out the licenses for noncommercial use for all of the optional products.  There are enough posts there to keep you reading for a month or two.

Be sure you have a good .iso image.  Keysight was hosting a corrupted image and I don't know if they ever fixed that.

Here is one thread:
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ignite-installation-cd-image-for-agilent-16702b/

Google is your friend
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 03:36:42 pm »
Here are some specific search terms for your reading list:

  site:eevblog.com agilent 16700
  site:eevblog.com agilent 16702a
  site:eevblog.com agilent 16702b
  site:eevblog.com agilent 167xx

Plus, plenty more pages if you don't limit it to eevblog.com.


This SD card converter is a popular replacement for the SCSI hard drive:

  http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

Only the version 5 is known to work with the 16702B.  Version 6 still had problems at last report.  Version 5 performance is not actually as good as the original hard drive (around 80-90%, measuring boot time), so consider keeping your hard drive unless it's broken.


To find the license keys on HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment, search for "16700 software tool sets".  Then search for "HP/Agilent 16702 Software Tools License Keys" for a followup correction on the InfiniBand key if you care about that.


For a replacement card for your 16557D, I would look at the 16750A/B, 16751A/B, or 16752A/B.  They have the most memory and best functionality without getting into expensive differential probing, and there are posted methods to increase the two lower models to the maximum capture memory.

Here's a document describing all the cards and their features.  I'd suggest reading this front to back because it covers all the hardware and software capabilities and can help you with your replacement decision:

  http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5968-9661E.pdf

And here's a compatibility matrix for mainframe models vs. cards, which you may also find useful:

  https://www.keysight.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/MainframeModuleCompatibilityMatrixMay2009.pdf

 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 04:43:58 pm »
I should add one more more thing when shopping for cards for these analyzers...

If you're buying from ebay or other reseller, don't buy them "As-is" with no return option.  A significant portion of these cards have corrosion issues which has eaten away the PCB traces to the point of failure.  There are no schematics or detailed service information to troubleshoot and repair them, and you will be stuck with scrap.

Buy them "Used", and run the self-test and calibration (if applicable), and then test each individual input to the tip of the flying lead.  If you have more than two of the same card, also test all the combinations of them in master/slave mode.  I have plenty of cards that work fine in standalone mode, but the inter-card communication is dead.

Even in the "Used" category, unless they're from someone who says they actually tested them, my personal experience is about a 30% failure rate.
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 01:07:05 pm »
Thanks everybody for the reply and lots of info in yours posts...  :-+ :-+
@MarkL  your write:  For a replacement card for your 16557D, I would look at the 16750A/B, 16751A/B, or 16752A/B  is that also the 16754/16755 /16756/16760 ?
 So the whole 1675X series

@Paulam : Join the HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment group on groups.io and search the archives again for 16700/16701/16702   sure i will do thanks..                           
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2018, 02:31:02 pm »
Thanks everybody for the reply and lots of info in yours posts...  :-+ :-+
@MarkL  your write:  For a replacement card for your 16557D, I would look at the 16750A/B, 16751A/B, or 16752A/B  is that also the 16754/16755/16756/16760 ?
 So the whole 1675X series
...                         
No, they're different.  The 16753/16754/16755/16756/16760 all have differential inputs (aka 90-pin).  Unless you're interested in doing differential or high-density probing (Mictor, Samtec etc.), they're probably not what you want.  The flying lead probes for them cost a fortune compared to the much more common variety on the single-ended 16750/16751/16752 (40-pin).

More info: Keysight Logic Analyzer Probing Solutions:

  http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5968-4632E.pdf
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2018, 09:20:46 pm »
Anybody experienced with codesrc scsi2sd v6. with Fw:6.2.1 .   

from what i found they should work nowadays.
http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD_V6_Compatibility

Ok it is detected ok on the scsi-chain.....together with my plextor 40max. 
after booting... the command SEA i see 
P6: SESCSI.6.0  (disk)
P1: SESCSI.1.0  (cdrom)
But when CD 2.90 starts booting IT stops after 1 minute  with message
.....system scanning ....IO devices....

cd-rom keeps spinning...

I changed the ID to 6 on the codesrc card with the scsi2sd-tool and usb connection to the laptop.
but do i need to change more setting from the SCSI2SD card. 

can anyone jump in this topic, with this codesrc card running i a 16702B LA

« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 10:28:49 pm by charlyd »
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2018, 03:13:37 pm »
I was unable to get the SCSI2SD v6 working with a 16702B in early 2017.  After more than a month of emails with Inertial Computing (reseller of the SCSI2SD here in the US), which also included a board swap where they did some rework, it still didn't work.  They continued to think it was a hardware problem.  I don't remember anymore exactly where the re-ignite got stuck.

Note that the 16702A appears in the compatibility list, but not the 16702B.

Make sure the terminator is set to off on the SCSI2SD card.  Other than that, you could try turning some of the features on and off.  You might get lucky.

I would also suggest contacting whoever you purchased the board from.  Perhaps they could help or at least engage the developer.

More recently in early October, there was someone on the io.groups HP-Agilent-Keysight-equipment list who was unable to get v6 working on either the 16702A or 16702B.  They eventually figured out that the CDROM and SCSI2SD couldn't be on the bus at the same time, which obviously makes the re-ignite process problematic.  Their workaround was to do the re-ignite to the hard drive as usual, disconnect the CDROM, and use the unix dd command to copy the entire HD image to the SCSI2SD card.  See their post #91704 for details (thread:  "16702A/B fan upgrade").
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 07:50:29 pm »
what card do you suggest to work for sure?
from your experience or other know working scsi2SD card
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 07:52:48 pm by charlyd »
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2018, 08:29:49 pm »
what card do you suggest to work for sure?
from your experience or other know working scsi2SD card
As posted a couple of weeks ago in this thread (see reply #4), I can vouch that the SCSI2SD v5 works with the 16702B, but had slightly less performance than the original hard drive.  I used it for a while but don't have it anymore.

I'm currently using an Acard ARS-2000SUP, which works fine and has a little more performance (10-20%) than the hard drive, but it's no longer available at sane prices.  I paid $200 for mine new, which I thought was already high, but now they're selling for $1000 and up.  Ridiculous.  You could put in an ebay search for one, but don't hold your breath.

The only place where you'll really notice the less performance of the SCSI2SD v5 is during boot.  Instead of 3 minutes, it takes 3 1/2 minutes.  Either is still enough time to go get a cup of coffee.  I would go with the v5, or just keep your hard drive if it still works.
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2019, 08:23:43 pm »
I managed to get the 5.1 bigger card working.. together with a 32G SD card. [NOT V6 !!]
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 08:43:45 pm by charlyd »
 

Offline DoricLoon

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 07:05:50 am »
Hello,

I'm also in the 16702B help wanted category.
Just purchased one from ebay (listed as working) shipped from the USA to UK. (Cost of which was greater than the analyzer).
It arrived slightly battered looking.
Switched it on, the analyzer booted and ran for long enough for me to play with it before shutting down and restarting. When it rebooted it again ran fine for another ten minutes then shut down and rebooted. Each time it rebooted the run time reduced. Occasionally it would shut down and not reboot just sit with the blank screen and the power led flashing and touch switch at red.

I contacted the vendor and he's appologetic and asks me what I want to do. Due to shipping costs returning the unit isn't an option. If I find faulty parts he may help out?

I have so far replaced the CMOS battery which was at 0.3V. Funnily enough after changing the battery the analyzer ran for a couple of hours.  :) Then returned to the shutdown/reboot :(
Initially when the analyzer was booting it was failing two LAN config self tests. After changing the battery the LAN tests are passing. The LAN card has to be removed to replace the battery so I can only assume the re-seating rectified the issue. I have not attempted to connect to the remote interface.
I have ran the self test procedures from the main operating admin tab, which passes all tests so long as the analyzer stays on.

I've set correct date and time
I have installed the 1k resistors on the PS2 interface and have a functional keyboard. Checked the BIOS settings which appear to be fine.
Tried disconnecting the hard drive, CD rom, and floppy drive each at seperate instances. Held the boot at start up and the analyzer still shut down.
I have had the front panel off and straightened up the aluminium mount, checked the connections. Removed the PCI card and CPU card and given them a visual inspection. Checked power supply voltages etc.
Last night just using a multimeter I was probing the what I assume is sense connector on the top PCB which comes from the power supply. Noticed the 3.3V supply would dissappear. Was just probing into the top of the connector and my connections weren't fantastic but I'm pretty sure the voltage dissapeared at a couple of points. I also heard a relay click during reboot.
Stripped out the power supply and had a look at it.

So I think the 3.3V side is shutting down but not staying down. Output measures 3.4-3.5V on the sense connector while running and while at black screen after shut down.
The power supply is a Celestica Series 7000 modular PSU. There are two parallel units on the 3.3V side. I've removed the modules from the main PCB housing. Visual check of both of the 3.3V units but nothing obvious.
I was hoping to load test the individual modules to identify the faulty one. Would also check the other modules aswell. Each module plugs onto an 8 way standard 0.1 header four of those pins are for the 360V DC input the other four I'm not very sure about? Two of them are connected in series, module to module and appear to go to the coil of a relay inside the main PSU assembly. Which would tie in with the clicking I heard on reboot.
So I may be able to use them to test for opening while load testing to see if an individual module is at fault. The other pair are a mystery I assume they are a command on signal?

If I knew for sure the pin out of the modules it would be very helpful, difficult to test the unit in the chassis.

The alternative to testing the modules individually would be testing them in the PSU frame but I'd have to know the pinout of the standby supply which has a five pin connector which I imagine must be standby output, fault, startup of some kind?

Does anyone have details, schematics for these power supplies.

Any help much appreciated.
Jim
 

Offline charlyd

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 07:47:51 pm »
How does it boot without any card? i got my 16702B and repaired some boards already with the unit.. i bought many boards from the web. and must say for diagnosing the 16702B is better then the 16903A.

but back to your problem. Is the boot process the same also in boottime … every time?   

Is it a unit with or without options installed. is your harddrive ok??
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 12:34:49 pm by charlyd »
 

Offline DoricLoon

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2019, 09:38:36 pm »
Quote
How does it boot without any card?

Exactly the same with or without cards

Quote
Is the boot process the same also in boottime … every time?

The analyzer boots fine every time. Most of the time it gets to the working GUI and runs for between 5-15 minutes before rebooting.

Quote
Is it a unit with or without options installed. is your harddrive ok??

The analyzer has option 3 and an extender card. I have tried with or without the extender card.
I have tried with the hard drive disconnected. Press ESC on boot and hold the boot at command prompt it still shuts down and reboots.

I have managed to pick up a little more information on the power supply.
The power supply fitted to my analyzer has no mention of the pinout of the five pin aux connector. But I have seen images of other supplies where the aux connector pin out was marked.

Pin1 Inh+
Pin2 Inh-
Pin3 5V+ aux
Pin4 DC OK
Pin5 aux return

I also found another thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/agilent-infiniium-54853a-dso-won_t-power-on/ Where the a fault on an infiniium 54853a scope had problems which has some connection.
They found that removing the cmos battery would allow their scope to power up normally. Though my analyzer does power on and boot the only time it stayed on was on the occasion after I changed the CMOS battery.

Now that I can power up the supply out of the chassis I will be able to load test each of the modules and see if it is behaving.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 09:40:25 pm by DoricLoon »
 

Offline DoricLoon

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Re: Hp Agilent 16702B help wanted
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2019, 08:18:23 pm »
Just to update one of the 3.4V modules was failing. Replaced the power supply and all is good.
 


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