Author Topic: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples  (Read 2764 times)

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Offline rockblues

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LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« on: August 18, 2019, 03:01:58 pm »
Hi. Dell SE2717H wouldn't turn on. Vertical scratchy lines flowing down. Black screen. Ordered replacement caps Radio Shack 470uF 35v to replace 470uF 25v. The Radio Shack 220uF 35v cap has leads out of both ends. Can't use. Replaced all three 470uF caps. Hooked up monitor to my PC. Desktop Blue screen. Descending horizontal ripple flowing lines.  Replaced the 220uF 25v cap with a 470uF 35v. Same Desktop Blue screen. Very scratchy and descending horizontal ripple flowing lines. Ordered a power board from Ebay from a monitor with a cracked screen. How come the cap replacement didn't work? Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 03:11:10 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 09:34:44 pm »
waste of money :(
this is bad glass, or best case scenario bad tcon/ribbon connection. You lost vertical sync bit somewhere.

> Desktop Blue screen

it should be blue :) thats default win10 wallpaper
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Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 09:40:36 pm »
Yeah, most likely dead panel. On top of that replacement capacitors are completely unsuitable for the job. They will fail in a few months maximum.
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 09:58:16 pm »
waste of money :(
this is bad glass, or best case scenario bad tcon/ribbon connection. You lost vertical sync bit somewhere.
> Desktop Blue screen
it should be blue :) thats default win10 wallpaper

Bad LCD? Thanks!! What is tcon/ribbon connection?
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 10:01:36 pm »
Yeah, most likely dead panel. On top of that replacement capacitors are completely unsuitable for the job. They will fail in a few months maximum.

Thanks. Asking to learn. What caps do you use? These are Radio Shack capacitors. How come they're completely unsuitable for the job?
 

Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 10:10:06 pm »
Yeah, most likely dead panel. On top of that replacement capacitors are completely unsuitable for the job. They will fail in a few months maximum.

Thanks. Asking to learn. What caps do you use? These are Radio Shack capacitors. How come they're completely unsuitable for the job?
There should be LOW ESR capacitors rated for high ripple current. But you used general purpose capacitors, on top of that rated only for 85oC temperature. They will simply fail in short time unable to survive high stress.
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 10:11:37 pm »
Yeah, most likely dead panel. On top of that replacement capacitors are completely unsuitable for the job. They will fail in a few months maximum.

Thanks. Asking to learn. What caps do you use? These are Radio Shack capacitors. How come they're completely unsuitable for the job?
There should be LOW ESR capacitors rated for high ripple current. But you used general purpose capacitors, on top of that rated only for 85oC temperature.

Appreciate this. No ESR info at Radio Shack. What caps do you recommend? Panasonic from Mouser? What about using 35V instead of 25 V?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 10:13:17 pm by rockblues »
 

Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2019, 10:21:56 pm »
Yeah, most likely dead panel. On top of that replacement capacitors are completely unsuitable for the job. They will fail in a few months maximum.

Thanks. Asking to learn. What caps do you use? These are Radio Shack capacitors. How come they're completely unsuitable for the job?
There should be LOW ESR capacitors rated for high ripple current. But you used general purpose capacitors, on top of that rated only for 85oC temperature.

Appreciate this. No ESR info at Radio Shack. What caps do you recommend? Panasonic from Mouser? What about using 35V instead of 25 V?
You should find datasheet for original capacitors and find replacement with ESR and ripple current spec not lower than original. Not that they are the problem with this monitor to begin with. If you somehow manage to fix it, returning original capacitors back probably would be the best solution. I don't think radioshack stocks any decent LOW ESR capacitors. And you don't need any info from radioshack, just google for a datasheet.
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2019, 11:04:58 pm »
Very hard to find an ESR datasheet for SE2717H Caps. Did find this - ESR Monitor that determines if a cap is bad!!!! - Without removing it from the board!

The writer found a bad cap on the SMALLER board. Replacing this fixed his Monitor.
http://www.bot-thoughts.com/2010/01/esr-test-harness-part-2.html

Equivalent Series Resistance Meter!!!! (from Part 2 - Testing Capacitors - Link: From Powell's website on ESR measurement
http://www.ludens.cl/Electron/esr/esr.html

BTW - what do you know about vertical sync?  tcon/ribbon connections?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:16:38 pm by rockblues »
 

Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2019, 11:11:44 pm »
Very hard to find an ESR datasheet for SE2717H Caps. Did find this - ESR Monitor that determines if a cap is bad!!!!
You should google capacitor brand and series. Not SE2717H  :palm:.
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2019, 11:15:30 pm »
Very hard to find an ESR datasheet for SE2717H Caps. Did find this - ESR Monitor that determines if a cap is bad!!!!
You should google capacitor brand and series. Not SE2717H  :palm:.

OK - Capacitor tier list - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193-5.html

Quote
First-Tier Caps
Even the Japanese manufacturers include some mainstream lines in their portfolios, which aren't as good as their top-of-the-line products. So, in addition to the brand, we always take a closer look at the product family and its specifications to better judge capacitor quality and to make a rough estimation of their lifetime.

All Japanese caps are considered of high quality, and we like to see the following cap brands:

Rubycon
United Chemi-Con (or Nippon Chemi-Con)
Nichicon
Sanyo/Suncon
Panasonic
Hitachi
FPCAP or Functional Polymer Capacitor (ex-Fujitsu caps segment, which was bought by Nichicon)
ELNA
Besides Japanese manufacturers there are also several US and European vendors that make high-quality capacitors. Probably we won't meet any of the below cap brands inside a consumer grade PSU, at least their electrolytic offerings, but we decided that it still worth mentioning them.

Cornell Dubilier (USA)
Illinois Capacitor (Currently owned my Cornell Dubilier)
Kemet Corporation (USA)
Vishay (USA)
EPCOS (TDK company, Germany)
Würth Elektronik (Germany)




« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:38:45 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2019, 11:41:10 pm »
Ahhhhh!!! Searched Mouser - Panasonic 470uF 25V LOW ESR capacitors - now must check: Height - Width - Spacing!!!!

Orig 470uF 25V cap from Dell : 12mm Height - 10mm Width - 5mm Spacing

Mouser : Choice 01
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FM1E471LB?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252BjC5l7YZoqau5lHLGPo6O6lmioLMI%3D

Manufacturer: Panasonic
Product Category: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded
RoHS:  Details 
Product: Low Impedance Electrolytic Capacitors
Termination Style: Radial
Capacitance: 470 uF
Voltage Rating DC: 25 VDC

Tolerance: 20 %
Ripple Current: 1.56 A
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 40 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 105 C
Diameter: 8 mm
Length: 20 mm

Lead Spacing: 5 mm
Lead Style: Straight
Life: 4000 Hour
Series: FM
Packaging: Cut Tape
Packaging: Reel
Type: Low Impedance Radial Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor 
Brand: Panasonic 
Product Type: Electrolytic Capacitors

Mouser : Choice 02
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Panasonic/EEU-FM1E471B?qs=sGAEpiMZZMukHu%252BjC5l7YZoqau5lHLGPkqlp52X42jo%3D

Product Category: Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors - Radial Leaded
RoHS:  Details 
Product: Low Impedance Electrolytic Capacitors
Termination Style: Radial
Capacitance: 470 uF
Voltage Rating DC: 25 VDC

Tolerance: 20 %
Ripple Current: 1.79 A
Minimum Operating Temperature: - 40 C
Maximum Operating Temperature: + 105 C
Diameter: 10 mm
Length: 16 mm

Lead Spacing: 5 mm
Lead Style: Straight
Life: 4000 Hour
Series: FM
Packaging: Cut Tape
Packaging: Reel
Type: Low Impedance Radial Leaded Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitor 
Brand: Panasonic 
Leakage Current: 117.5 uA
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:43:43 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2019, 11:51:46 pm »
Good Article on Ripple Current
https://passive-components.eu/ripple-current-and-its-effects-on-the-performance-of-capacitors/


https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/rated-ripple-current.17346/

Quote from: mik3
The rated ripple current of a capacitor is fixed and is the amount of current the capacitor can conduct without get destroyed (overheat). The greater the rated ripple current the more current the capacitor can conduct. It is a fixed value but the current in the circuit, where you will use the capacitor, depends upon the frequency and the voltage.

You have to use a capacitor with a rated ripple current equal or greater than the ripple current the design is calculated to produce.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:56:55 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline mariush

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2019, 11:52:35 pm »
Capacitor maker and series is most of the time written on capacitor.
In the case of your Radioshack capacitors, the logo tells you they're made by Lelon and then the next text tells you the series and temperature ... REA and 85c
The other visible row of text will often be 4 numbers (week and year of manufacture) or some other code (batch of production etc)

If you look up Lelon REA you find datasheet easily : http://www.lelon.com.tw/upload/prod/154355894364.pdf
You can see it says "Standard series for general purpose" - the voltage rating alone would tell you these capacitors are just... average

You're dealing with a switching power supply, and majority of switching power supplies require LOW ESR capacitors, rated for 105c (or more, but 105c is enough)

IN this application ESR is pretty much the same as impedance - you won't find esr but you'll find impedance at 100kHz and that's what you use.

Your original capacitors are probably made by Samsung, Samwha, Su's'con or other chinese/taiwanese brands.

You need to replace original capacitors with ones that
match or exceed the voltage rating - keep in mind of diameter and height you can have
match the capacitance (in lots of situations it's safe to go next step up, capacitance + 10-20%)
get impedance at 100kHz value as close as possible to the original or a bit lower - it's ok if it's let's say 5-10% higher, and let's say up to 20-30% lower... but don't try to get absolute lowest values... sometimes the circuit can be affected if you use too good capacitors.
get current ripple value as close as possible or higher ... let's say 10% less is still acceptable, but equal or higher is recommended.

Anyway don't stress too much about it, your failure is most likely not capacitor related and harder to solve.
 

Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2019, 11:53:00 pm »
Very hard to find an ESR datasheet for SE2717H Caps. Did find this - ESR Monitor that determines if a cap is bad!!!!
You should google capacitor brand and series. Not SE2717H  :palm:.

OK - Capacitor tier list - https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193-5.html
I mean capacitors which were originally there, not some tier list. For example you bought Lelon REA http://www.lelon.com.tw/upload/prod/154355894364.pdf
But as already said, don't bother because problem is not in capacitors and this monitor is beyond economical repair with 95% probability.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 11:55:01 pm by wraper »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2019, 12:08:40 am »
These are the Dell SE2717H caps on the Larger power board.

Larger Power Supply Board
220uF = Elite
470uF = Hermei

Smaller Power Supply Board
XL 100 ETZ
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 01:13:13 am by rockblues »
 

Offline mariush

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2019, 12:28:28 am »
Elite EG series : http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Elite/Elite%20[radial%20thru-hole]%20EG%20Series.pdf

220uF 25v :  0.13 ohm esr , 640 mA ripple current

Hermei LS series : http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Hermei/Hermei%20%5Bradial%20thru-hole%5D%20LS%20Series.pdf

470 uF 25v ; not in datasheet, either custom order or the datasheet above is older revision
If you use the 560uF values, it's 0.036 ohm esr and 1140mA ripple

The panasonic fm series has these

220/25 ; 950mA (higher, ok)   0.056 (a bit too low, but here it would probably be fine)
470/25 :

  8x20 1560 (higher so ok)  0.030 (lower, so ok, close enough to estimated esr of original to not be a concern)
10x16 1790   0.026 (same deal, both parameters good)

so FM series would be suitable to replace both
 

Online wraper

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2019, 12:28:41 am »
http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Elite/Elite%20%5Bradial%20thru-hole%5D%20EG%20Series.pdf
http://www.paullinebarger.net/DS/Hermei/Hermei%20%5Bradial%20thru-hole%5D%20LS%20Series.pdf
They are not bulged so it's unlikely there is anything wrong with them. Also symptoms of the fault has nothing to do with bad capacitors. Replacing them is just a waste of money.
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2019, 01:20:01 am »
mariush and wraper - This is incredible!!! You are both amazing!!!!

Have a better understanding of what is what. Possibly the replacement of both power boards / cables might do the job. If not it's the LCD glass.

On order = replacement boards / cables form a new Dell SE2717H nonitor that had a cracked screen / shipping. Will arrive later this week - will keep you both posted!!!!

Huge thanks!!!!!   :clap: :clap: (other option is DARPA mental telepathy to make all work - not gonna happen outside their gates)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 05:51:00 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2019, 03:09:16 am »
HOW TO SOLVE HORIZONTAL LINE PROBLEM IN LCD - LED TV.-- TECH PRABU -- EXP IN TAMIL - YouTube


Cleaned all cables - Still lines!!
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2019, 03:14:02 am »
Lines on Monitor Screen (power applied - not connected to PC)

What causes these broken lines?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 03:15:39 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 07:22:09 am »
HOW TO SOLVE HORIZONTAL LINE PROBLEM IN LCD - LED TV.-- TECH PRABU -- EXP IN TAMIL - YouTube

you dont have horizontal lines, you are missing vertical sync or vertical address decoder/adder is broken resulting in some lines landing in wrong places/not being displayed at all


On order = replacement boards / cables form a new Dell SE2717H nonitor that had a cracked screen / shipping. Will arrive later this week - will keep you both posted!!!!

too bad you didnt order the only board that actually mattered, the TCON, small board mounted directly on the lcd panel itself
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2019, 04:55:32 pm »
HOW TO SOLVE HORIZONTAL LINE PROBLEM IN LCD - LED TV.-- TECH PRABU -- EXP IN TAMIL - YouTube
you dont have horizontal lines, you are missing vertical sync or vertical address decoder/adder is broken resulting in some lines landing in wrong places/not being displayed at all

On order = replacement boards / cables form a new Dell SE2717H nonitor that had a cracked screen / shipping. Will arrive later this week - will keep you both posted!!!!

too bad you didn't order the only board that actually mattered, the TCON, small board mounted directly on the lcd panel itself

- missing vertical sync or vertical address decoder/adder is broken - very cool info!!! wow!! New to all this. Glad to get insights. Thanks!!

Researched TCon - Google -

lcd tv repair basic
http://www.electronicrepairguide.com/lcd-tv-repair-basic.html

Shop Jimmy - TCon Boards - CMO 35-D026047 (V400H1-C03) T-Con Board Component Repair Kit
ttps://www.shopjimmy.com/cmo-35-d026047-t-con-board-component-repair-kit.htm

Ebay Search : 715G8429-M01-000-0H4T (Code on Smaller Board - Monitor SE2717H)

Earlier, ordered replacement boards cables Don't see how I can replace just the TCON chip itself. A complete set of boards / cables for SE2717H that will arrive Friday.
Will replace the smaller board with new TCon chip, and hopefully all will be fine. Stay tuned. Thanks again!!




« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 05:50:12 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2019, 06:21:17 pm »
you can see that you have proper picture, default w10 wallpaper, but in two copies interleaved at two different vertical offsets, thats why I think something is wrong with tcon-glass connection

Will replace the smaller board with new TCon chip, and hopefully all will be fine. Stay tuned. Thanks again!!

"Tcon" (Timing Controller) is a small board on the back of panel itself, sometimes even permanently attached to it. Its role is to deserialize incoming digital picture data and drive the panel horizontal/vertical buffers. You didnt order one,  'Ebay Parts 01.png' shows power supply and so called 'Scaler Board', those are >99% useless in your case.
quick google http://monitorinsider.com/monitor_anatomy/ has usable writeup
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2019, 06:48:57 pm »
you can see that you have proper picture, default w10 wallpaper, but in two copies interleaved at two different vertical offsets, thats why I think something is wrong with tcon-glass connection

Will replace the smaller board with new TCon chip, and hopefully all will be fine. Stay tuned. Thanks again!!

"Tcon" (Timing Controller) is a small board on the back of panel itself, sometimes even permanently attached to it. Its role is to deserialize incoming digital picture data and drive the panel horizontal/vertical buffers. You didnt order one,  'Ebay Parts 01.png' shows power supply and so called 'Scaler Board', those are >99% useless in your case.
quick google http://monitorinsider.com/monitor_anatomy/ has usable writeup

Parts -
Monitor = LCD glass (no TCon Board on the back)
Plastic frame
Cables
Larger Power board
Smaller main board - VDA / HDMI ports

No separate TCon Board - unless it's on one of these two boards. Don't see a TCon type chip. Where do you think it may be? Thanks!

Very possible that the HDMI port was injured on the monitor. If true, the replacement small board (arriving Fri / Sat) will fix this vertical screen situation.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 02:18:52 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2019, 10:39:19 pm »
its inside the panel case, usually under a flap
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2019, 10:02:28 pm »
Replacement boards - cables arrived.  Monitor plugged into power not PC - still distorted lines.


 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2019, 10:03:29 pm »
its inside the panel case, usually under a flap

Video on replacing a TCon Chip (see video): https://youtu.be/CWL0Y8g-TMo

Rasz - Opened the LCD Panel - yes there is a flap. Had a Hex screwdriver small enough to do the job!! TCon Chip - HiMax HX8861-K 73DFCG 610NTAGC KRQQA 60497

How do I order a replacement chip? The panel is held by very thin connectors to this board - not good to replace the entire panel. What about the fuse? Must that be replaced as well?  How do you know if it's good or not?

Thanks.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

It's really sad that TCon chips / ribbons fail. Very inexpensive parts that are hard to find and difficult to replace.

What makes a TCon chip / ribbon fail - in normal use? One day working. The next day the entire investment is down the drain as one TCon Chip has suddenly gone bad.

DELL makes PCs / Monitors by sourcing parts. The suppliers ought to be held to a high standard of quality.



« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 03:57:30 am by rockblues »
 

Offline mariush

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2019, 08:05:20 am »
The chip may not be the issue.
Any of the tiny resistors and capacitors along that wide strip of circuit board can be faulty or not making a good connection to the traces on the board. On of the voltage regulators on that long board (looks like there's some on the left side in the picture but it's too low res to know for sure) could output an unstable voltage that could affect one of those ICs...

The problem may also be a poor contact between the film strips that come from the actual panel to the wide circuit board... those are almost impossible to fix by regular folks like you.
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 08:43:42 am by mariush »
 
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Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2019, 08:15:11 am »
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.


Then stick a little bit of foam tape on the spot, close the cover to apply just a little pressure so the cable makes contact again and cross your fingers. :D
Any circuit design must contain at least one part which is obsolete, two parts which are unobtainable, and three parts which are still under development.

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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2019, 09:06:54 am »
The chip may not be the issue.
Any of the tiny resistors and capacitors along that wide strip of circuit board can be faulty or not making a good connection to the traces on the board. On of the voltage regulators on that long board (looks like there's some on the left side in the picture but it's too low res to know for sure) could output an unstable voltage that could affect one of those ICs...

The problem may also be a poor contact between the film strips that come from the actual panel to the wide circuit board... those are almost impossible to fix by regular folks like you.
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.

You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.

Then stick a little bit of foam tape on the spot, close the cover to apply just a little pressure so the cable makes contact again and cross your fingers. :D

Thank you!! Mariush and Terra!! Will try this!!! Bubblegum Won WWII (way before my time)!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:11:25 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2019, 09:25:21 am »
its inside the panel case, usually under a flap

Video on replacing a TCon Chip (see video): https://youtu.be/CWL0Y8g-TMo

there is no tcon chip, whole board is called Tcon. The chip being replaced in that video is a Gamma driver/buffer (AS15f). This chip going bad results in weird colors, solarized/overexposed picture etc. Definitely _not_ your problem
btw gotta love how Jimmys video doesnt show chip designation when zoomed in  :P fully understandable as he is trying to sell them as magic "repair kits for X". Results in people replacing random stuff in search of 'pleas bro solutions'.


TCon 01.jpg

not every black rectangle plastic thing is the same chip, now this one IS a timing controller chip
diagram of some random tcon using this one https://e2e.ti.com/cfs-file/__key/communityserver-discussions-components-files/196/TPS65150-circuit.pdf
this suggests there might be some programming involved, so straight replacement is not guaranteed to work https://wenku.baidu.com/view/9b1b9243680203d8cf2f24c3.html


How do you know if it's good or not?

finally a good question :)
This shows what is happening on the tcon board http://e2e.ti.com/support/power-management/f/196/p/572989/2103036#2103036


in your case defect must be in the Timing controller -> Gate driver -> glass path, resulting in correct image spread into two different vertical alignments. Can be main timing chip on tcon board, might be interconnects on the glass/gate drivers.

You can simulate your defect doing some math on a piece of paper. Flipping bits around while counting up in binary - one sticking/shorted/dead bit can result in mirror image

DELL makes PCs / Monitors by sourcing parts. The suppliers ought to be held to a high standard of quality.

DELL gives you long warranty, with cheap very quick and convenient on site support
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2019, 09:38:24 am »
DELL makes PCs / Monitors by sourcing parts. The suppliers ought to be held to a high standard of quality.
DELL gives you long warranty, with cheap very quick and convenient on site support

- Monitor had a Dell Warranty 2016-2017. Found out if unopened, could have renewed 1 more year: 2019 - 2020
- Cost for renewing warranty = 41.00 Reinstatement Fee + 50.29 for 1 year warranty 2019-2020 = 91.94
- If something happens, you get a refurbished Monitor for 50% price of a New Monitor
- A brand new SE2717H Monitor goes for 208.00 @ B&H in NYC vs 92.00 (adding last year warranty (1 Year)) + then buying a New Monitor in 2020 for 208.00 = Total 300.00
- As Monitors seem to last at least 3 years, and maybe more, it's best to think about buying a 4 - 5 year warranty

Saying there's a cap problem with other monitors (if out of warranty), I now have the best caps from Mouser: 470uF 25v and 470uF 35v Low ESR / High Ripple Rating / High temp + boards + cables.
If I can get this TCon situation fixed, it will be a better world. Nice flow chart!!! Thanks Rasz!!

one sticking/shorted/dead bit can result in mirror image

One dead bit kills the image when Monitor is just out of warranty - planned obsolescence.

Check Dell Warranty: https://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/04/Products/?app=warranty
Monitor Service Tag is on the lower back of the Monitor.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 09:06:58 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2019, 11:12:46 am »
you can risk swapping this https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850239152.html ~$13 (ems delivery)
at least this time you will be ordering something with actual potential for success
datasheet for HIMAX chips is unobtanium, unless you live in taiwan/shenzhen and know a guy who knows a guy who drinks with a guy who works at one of the factories, there is no way of knowing if HX8861-K 73DFCG needs external programming(I dont think it does, that programming note was most likely for external serial eprom) or if its replaceable with other HX8861 variants
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2019, 09:56:03 pm »
Tried touching the cable strips - lines changed from full vertical to full horizontal - briefly clear - then black. Another one bites the dust!! Kept all parts (boards + cables) + frame - stored in the original box until the next disaster.

FWIF - B&H sells a DELL SE2719H for 199.00 - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1374832-REG/dell_se2719h_27_16_9_ips.html 

Learned more than I knew before. Thanks everyone!!!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 11:23:04 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2019, 11:50:21 pm »
Tried touching the cable strips - lines changed from full vertical to full horizontal - briefly clear - then black.

you mean where the strip connects to pcb? you can fix this with soldering iron
glass connection is non repairable without special bonding machines (alignment etc)
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2019, 11:57:02 pm »
you mean where the strip connects to pcb? you can fix this with soldering iron

Hi. Don't understand what strip you are referring to. Where do I solder? Still have the LCD. I was touching the eight gold strips under the panel running along the edge of the TCon Board. Do you mean where the wide cable from the main board connects to the LCD / TCon board? It seemed to snap in place ok at the TCon panel at the back of the LCD.  Amazing if this situation can be brought back to life.

glass connection is non repairable without special bonding machines (alignment etc)

Are these the 8 strips from the glass to the Tcon board? Thanks.


« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 12:02:03 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2019, 11:28:38 am »
strips are glued to the tcon pcb, glue can get weak and lose connections

you can either shim it like TERRA suggested
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.


Then stick a little bit of foam tape on the spot, close the cover to apply just a little pressure so the cable makes contact again and cross your fingers. :D

gently apply heat with a soldering iron/heat gun while pressing to fix broken connections
http://p1repair.com/blog/2013/05/30/lcd-repair-missing-lines/




or if experienced go for permanent solution and solder it to the tcon





« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 11:39:40 am by Rasz »
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2019, 03:38:50 pm »
Wow!!! There's a reason I saved the LCD Glass. Parts are safely stored on a shelf in a box - ready to rock.

Will check out the videos and see what happens. Game is not over!!! Just like baseball.
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2019, 03:45:35 pm »
The chip may not be the issue.
Any of the tiny resistors and capacitors along that wide strip of circuit board can be faulty or not making a good connection to the traces on the board. On of the voltage regulators on that long board (looks like there's some on the left side in the picture but it's too low res to know for sure) could output an unstable voltage that could affect one of those ICs...

The problem may also be a poor contact between the film strips that come from the actual panel to the wide circuit board... those are almost impossible to fix by regular folks like you.
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.

This is a TV Repair - same idea - replacing a super small cap in the Device board that connects the glass to the TCon board
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2019, 03:48:16 pm »
@Rasz,

OK, I watched the second video.   Very messy and horrible music.   After that epileptic repair, did it actually work?
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2019, 07:26:08 pm »
@Rasz,

OK, I watched the second video.   Very messy and horrible music.   After that epileptic repair, did it actually work?

second video only shows that its possible to remove glue and directly solder flex to pcb
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2019, 01:04:35 am »
second video only shows that its possible to remove glue and directly solder flex to pcb

Today - Fixed a 5.00 Multimeter (Ebay) - NEW 7 FUNCTION DIGITAL MULTIMETER DC AC MULTI-TESTER VOLTMETER OHM - loose test lead connections. To test current, I can add a 3rd removable test lead if  ever needed. Right now testing Capacitance, Voltage , Ohms, and Continuity. Cut off test leads and soldered wires directly to circuit board of the MM - Works Great!!

Testing Capacitance with Cheap 5.00 Multimeter -


Don't have a hot air gun. Plan: unglue strips by heating the strip tape carefully / quickly with a soldering iron   adding Fast Chip SMD Removal Alloy to the tape. The SMD Fast Chip Alloy lowers the boiling point of solder / it might lower the melting point of the glue. Clean residue with isopropyl alcohol. Then solder strips in. Need to also check for bad caps on the digital panel by the TCon board.

I ordered -

- Fast Chip Kit for Quik SMD Removal with a Low Temperature Alloy - SMD Removal Alloy - Ebay 
- Liquid Flux - CIRCUITWORKS CW3220 NO CLEAN SOLDERING LIQUID FLUX LEAD FREE - Ebay
- (X2) SMT SMD Component Welding Practice PCB Board Soldering Plate DIY Suite Kit - Ebay - Practice - Practice - Practice!!!!
- Fluke TL75 Hard Point Test Lead Set for Multimeter for FLUKE - Ebay
- Fluke 101 Basic Digital Multimeter Pocket Portable Meter Equipment Industrial (Amazon Good Price)

Alot of this gear I will have for many future repairs. Looking at this as an investment. And I was going to throw away the LCD Panel the other day!! Gut tells me if I can get this repair to work, it will last a long time. Plus, I'm learning alot which I really needed to do and appreciate. Must keep costs down. 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2019, 11:38:41 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2019, 02:58:50 am »
instead of ripping all the strips start by touching them until you get back the picture and identifying where the defect lies
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2019, 04:02:49 am »
instead of ripping all the strips start by touching them until you get back the picture and identifying where the defect lies

Earlier this week, I tried lightly rubbing the strips with my finger, and I found one area - right of the middle of the long thin digital board - that made the screen clear for a few seconds. Then it went back to lines. When I find it again, what do you recommend? Simply soldering with heat? Or ungluing the strip, then soldering?

Need wait for the SMD Fast Chip SMD alloy (to remove the strip) then Liquid Flux to solder.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2019, 08:14:50 pm »
heat up with soldering iron and press with something blunt while it cools down, like in the Fluke repair video
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2019, 10:35:40 pm »
heat up with soldering iron and press with something blunt while it cools down, like in the Fluke repair video

Appreciate this. Will watch the Fluke video again right now. Thanks.


« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 06:11:34 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2019, 03:35:13 am »
- Red Meter on continuity - checked all caps on the digital strip under the flap back of panel. None were at 0. Need to know more about what I'm doing here.
- Cleaned the metal ends of both ribbon cables and the digital panel with Deoxit - let air dry.
- Connected all parts. Left the panel with flap open. Moved a QTip , then my finger over all strips before power. 
- Plugged in power. Monitor half assembled. Panel lying in the front bezel with the bracket taped in so I could raise the panel and see the screen.

With power on, checked each of the eight strips connecting LCD to circuit board. No change in screen events with finger going over each strip. Noticed New Result: One Text Box was clear!!! Second box: distorted. Not sure why there is a 2nd text box? Before I could apply heat from soldering iron, the panel went dark. Couldn't turn it on. Just to be safe, pulled the plug. Don't know what happened. Packed parts again carefully away except the panel. Attached the back flap cover. Waiting to hear what to do next.

BTW - Dell Self Test (Monitor + Power Only) used to say "No HDMI Cable" - now "No VGA Cable." No power. Black screen. No backlight. Did the monitor die? It must be the 4 min THEN Power Saving Mode!!!

There is a chance to get this working!!!!!



« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 06:11:08 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2019, 06:20:51 am »
instead of ripping all the strips start by touching them until you get back the picture and identifying where the defect lies

Today it seemed that no matter where I touched the 8 strips, it was all the same: nothing changed. What made the 1st box clear I believe was using Deoxit on the ends of both ribbon cables and also spraying the circuit boards with Deoxit as well. Air dried before applying power to test the monitor.

More about Deoxit: https://caig.com/deoxit-d-series/
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 06:23:52 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Renate

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2019, 03:56:31 pm »
You asked where to get the aluminum tape.
I use the stuff that they use for HVAC air ducts.
You can buy it locally anywhere.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company-us/all-3m-products/~/3M-Foil-Tape-3340/?N=5002385+3293241172&preselect=3293786499&rt=rud
 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #50 on: August 27, 2019, 06:20:55 pm »
test with same signal connected to have comparison
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #51 on: August 27, 2019, 09:34:59 pm »
test with same signal connected to have comparison

Same signal connected? Do you mean attaching screen to HDMI then to VGA?

Test Setup: Not plugging Monitor into PC. Simply plugging in power. Seeing Sell self test screen. White text box on black background.
Monitor is lying flat on a table. Front facing down. Back cover off. Lifting up panel off table to see screen action.

Soldering The Strips: The guy with the Fluke heated the back of the board so as to not injure the tape. The board here is connected to the panel. Can't remove it.
If I heat the tape with the soldering iron, I'll melt the strips. Liquid Flux is on it's way. Also the SMD Removal Alloy.

Deoxit cleaning got rid of many lines.  Ready to test. Thanks!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 10:15:46 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2019, 10:14:42 pm »
Plugged in monitor panel. Solid white screen with horizontal bar. Changed to Mouser 470uF 35V caps and the one at 330uF 35V firmerly 220uF 25V

Now see blue - green - white - black screens - all have horizontal lines. Slideshow of colored screens. Can't turn the monitor on / off.

Closed the case and hooked up monitor to PC via HDMI and VGA - same as above.

No Dell Self test anymore = white box on black screen when monitor is only powered not connected to PC


« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 01:03:42 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #53 on: August 28, 2019, 01:47:18 am »
Sprayed Deoxit on ribbon connector on the main board and on the panel + again on ribbon connector ends. Colors gone. Black + white text box came back + power only.
Switched back in the power board I bought with Dell caps. Then switched back to power board with mouser caps (470uF 35V Panasonic Low ESR High Ripple Current) + ribbon that came with replacement boards.

Both times I get black screen + a white box = Dell Self Test. No more colors on the screen when doing Dell Self Test.
Text is garbled and not clear. If anything the Board with the Mouser Panasonic Low ESR High Ripple caps is sharper.

Now, text box is in the center now, not the left side.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 02:20:06 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #54 on: August 28, 2019, 02:18:11 am »
Opened up the panel. with the monitor on, pressed on each of the 8 strips. The white text box moved to the left side. Then when powered on again, it was at center position.

Something's wrong with the LCD. Or the strips connecting the LCD to the board.

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 02:44:58 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #55 on: August 28, 2019, 03:53:09 am »
Same signal connected? Do you mean attaching screen to HDMI then to VGA?

same as first  picture with windows desktop, so you at least see if anything changed for the better

I'll melt the strips.

kepton shouldnt melt, besides you should try just heating them up first, not soldering
heating up will soften the glue and could cure it if the fault is there
soldering flex to pcb is extremely difficult, I wouldnt even try without practicing on scraps of another tv

Changed to Mouser 470uF 35V caps and the one at 330uF 35V firmerly 220uF 25V
there was never anything wrong with caps in this monitor

Now see blue - green - white - black screens - all have horizontal lines. Slideshow of colored screens. Can't turn the monitor on / off.
this is panel self test

Opened up the panel. with the monitor on, pressed on each of the 8 strips. The white text box moved to the left side. Then when powered on again, it was at center position.

this box always moves around, its moving to prevent screen burnin in case someone leaves turned on monitor with no signal ....
connect computer with a colorful picture to see if anything is changing when messing with ribbons

>If anything the Board with the Mouser Panasonic Low ESR High Ripple caps is sharper.

impossible = from the sounds of it you only got the impression something was making a difference while messing with the panel, all the poking and prodding was for nothing without good baseline (same picture on the screen)

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #56 on: August 28, 2019, 04:08:35 am »
Same signal connected? Do you mean attaching screen to HDMI then to VGA?
same as first  picture with windows desktop, so you at least see if anything changed for the better

Right. When I reattached the monitor HDMI then VGA , both times I got solid colors (red, blue, green, white). No windows desktop blue screen.
Then I took the monitor apart and again sprayed Deoxit on the ribbon connectors, and got the black screen back.

Since I now have the black screen with the white text box (garbled), I'll hook it up again to the PC and see if this time I get the windows blue desktop.
BTW - using a replacement power (mouser caps) & main boards - just in case there was damage to either HDMI or VGA ports (main board).

Results:
HDMI - 1st screenshot at start of thread - Dell Caps - dirty image
VGA - Lines are less. Double image Win Logo - Mouser / Panasonic Low ESR High Ripple Caps / Power Board
HDMI - Lines slightly less - Triple Win Logo - Mouser / Panasonic Low ESR High Ripple Caps / Power Board

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 04:33:33 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2019, 05:37:48 am »
I'll melt the strips.
kepton shouldnt melt, besides you should try just heating them up first, not soldering
heating up will soften the glue and could cure it if the fault is there
soldering flex to pcb is extremely difficult, I wouldnt even try without practicing on scraps of another tv

What technique do you suggest for heating the tape strips? Thanks!

I see no change when touching each of the 8 strips. Do I heat up all strips? How do you heat up kapton?
The Fluke video - the tape was heated by heating the other side of the board. Cant remove the digital board under the flap on the back of the monitor panel.
Have to try another way.

Found this - Here- the person uses tin foil wrapped around a soldering iron that is wiped with a wet sponge to lower its temp before touching the tape.

How to Remove and Re-attach LCD Ribbon From a PCB With a Fine Pitch
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-remove-and-re-attach-LCD-Ribbon-from-a-PCB-/



2:20 - Kapton tape melts 500F





Kapton - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapton

DUPONT™ KAPTON®
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/membranes-and-films/polyimde-films/documents/DEC-Kapton-summary-of-properties.pdf
Kapton® polyimide films retain their physical properties over a wide temperature range. They have been used in field applications where the environmental temperatures were as low as -269°C (-52°F) and as high as 400°C (752°F). Complete data are not available at these extreme conditions, and the majority of technical data presented in this section falls in the 23 to 200°C (73 to 392°F) range.

Kapton Tape
https://reprap.org/wiki/Kapton_Tape
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:48:10 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2019, 09:39:23 pm »
Flat tip soldering iron 250C wrapped in Aluminum foil. Went up and down each strip (2X) 90 degrees a few sec dabbing many points.

Dell Self Test - Garbled text. Both VGA and HDMI have double Win Logo image. Horizontal Lines.

Dell Self Test
VGA Connected
HDMI Connected
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 12:34:48 am by rockblues »
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2019, 11:31:06 pm »
Flat tip soldering iron 250F wrapped in Aluminum foil. Went up and down each strip (2X) 90 degrees a few sec dabbing many points.

Dell Self Test - Garbled text. Both VGA and HDMI have double Win Logo image. Horizontal Lines.

Dell Self Test
VGA Connected
HDMI Connected

Do you  understand the difference between °F and °C?   250°F is barely above the boiling point of water.   It will not melt any solder you are likely to be dealing with.   It will melt some interesting alloys, such as Wood's metal.

From your comments here and elsewhere, I think  you are over your head with this problem.  Get a new one and stop wasting your time. 

 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 11:51:47 pm »
Flat tip soldering iron 250F wrapped in Aluminum foil. Went up and down each strip (2X) 90 degrees a few sec dabbing many points. Horizontal Lines.

were you doing it while monitor was on? and did the picture change at any point?
this would mean its not the strips, Tcon chip and glass left


Do you  understand the difference between °F and °C?   250°F is barely above the boiling point of water.   It will not melt any solder you are likely to be dealing with.   It will melt some interesting alloys, such as Wood's metal.

he wasnt supposed to melt solder, _there is no solder there_ , its glued
going over with soldering iron is a perfect test for bad connection under the strip
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Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2019, 12:40:33 am »
Flat tip soldering iron 250F wrapped in Aluminum foil. Went up and down each strip (2X) 90 degrees a few sec dabbing many points.

Dell Self Test - Garbled text. Both VGA and HDMI have double Win Logo image. Horizontal Lines.
Dell Self Test
VGA Connected
HDMI Connected

Do you  understand the difference between °F and °C?   250°F is barely above the boiling point of water.   It will not melt any solder you are likely to be dealing with.   It will melt some interesting alloys, such as Wood's metal.
From your comments here and elsewhere, I think  you are over your head with this problem.  Get a new one and stop wasting your time.

Hi. You are right!! 250C - Thank you!!

Definitively over my head here. Studio Audio Engineer / musician. I've fixed a dead LCD that had bad caps before. This one is not an easy repair. And like you said, it might be best to just buy a new monitor.

Did you notice when I applied Deoxit, how that cleaned up the lines on the screen? Cleaning the ribbon connectors to get rid of LCD Lines? That worked for a person in Tamil. He used a pencil eraser. Did you know that? Now you do. I posted that video as well. 1st page of this thread. I have two flat ribbons from the main board to the board under the panel flap that I switched back and forth just in case one was damaged.

jpanhalt - This is a great place to L.E.A.R.N. We do this by test and measurement. Add a positive voice. Seems like you might want to expand on this problem here with your intense IQ and brilliant knowledge.

BTW - Did you know Kapton melts at 500F? The speaker did say Fahrenheit not Celsius. 2:20 in the video I posted. If you didn't know that, now you do.

(500°F − 32) × 5/9 = 260°C

« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 07:19:07 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2019, 12:46:18 am »
Flat tip soldering iron 250F wrapped in Aluminum foil. Went up and down each strip (2X) 90 degrees a few sec dabbing many points. Horizontal Lines.
were you doing it while monitor was on? and did the picture change at any point? this would mean its not the strips, Tcon chip and glass left

No. Monitor was off when I applied heat. Temp = 300C = Middle of the dial Tabiger variable soldering iron: 60W Temp Range: 200-450C
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 12:48:34 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2019, 01:02:20 am »
Tcon chip and glass left

Hi. Rasz Thanks! How close does the TCon Chip have to be to number wise to what I have installed here? TCon Chip - HiMax HX8861-K 73DFCG 610NTAGC KRQQA 60497
You mentioned a replacement Chip: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32850239152.html

Have some practice boards on the way from China where I can add / remove chips using SMD alloy and Liquid Flux.
I might just order the chip you suggested and see what happens. Throwing this out otherwise except the parts (boards / cables / case / stand).
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:17:32 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2019, 01:05:25 am »
The chip may not be the issue.
Any of the tiny resistors and capacitors along that wide strip of circuit board can be faulty or not making a good connection to the traces on the board. On of the voltage regulators on that long board (looks like there's some on the left side in the picture but it's too low res to know for sure) could output an unstable voltage that could affect one of those ICs...

The problem may also be a poor contact between the film strips that come from the actual panel to the wide circuit board... those are almost impossible to fix by regular folks like you.
You can try to see if this is the problem by gently pressing on those strips of film / flat flex strips / whatever you want to call them as you're looking at the panel ... for example slowly drag your finger nail over the surface of those film strips and look at the screen and see if there's some changes.

Mariush!!! Thanks. As you say, any of these are good reasons for failure of this LCD Monitor. And yes, this is beyond what I can do right now. Except moving my finger on the tape. Very interesting results. 1st time, the monitor screen seemed to flash light. At one strip the text (Dell Self Test) was all clear. Didn't hold. Deoxit on connectors seemed to help. Still had double images and garbled text. Thanks!!!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:22:21 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2019, 01:30:41 am »
One last question - the power stays on. Won't turn off. How to fix this? Some on the internet say use tape. Any answers here? Thanks.

And - what about this? Cleans electrical circuits. WD40 Company 300554 Specialist Contact Cleaner Spray - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AF0OFVU?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 01:32:33 am by rockblues »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2019, 03:58:28 pm »
were you doing it while monitor was on? and did the picture change at any point? this would mean its not the strips, Tcon chip and glass left
No. Monitor was off when I applied heat. Temp = 300C = Middle of the dial Tabiger variable soldering iron: 60W Temp Range: 200-450C

you are supposed to do the soldering iron over the strips with monitor turned on for immediate feedback
-either you locate spot where picture gets better, only this spot needs fixing
-or you cant locate such a spot, meaning strips are not the problem, and replacing tcon chip is the last resort

Except moving my finger on the tape. Very interesting results. 1st time, the monitor screen seemed to flash light. At one strip the text (Dell Self Test) was all clear.

-was it all clear and moving around? good
-or did screen flash and got undistorted for a split second before going blank? this means nothing
-or it froze during refresh, this is why its best to have something moving playing on the tv


You cant fix something without first diagnosing actual source of the problem. So far your efforts went in the opposite direction, replacing not broken things just because they were easy to get :)
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #67 on: August 29, 2019, 06:58:31 pm »
were you doing it while monitor was on? and did the picture change at any point? this would mean its not the strips, Tcon chip and glass left
No. Monitor was off when I applied heat. Temp = 300C = Middle of the dial Tabiger variable soldering iron: 60W Temp Range: 200-450C
you are supposed to do the soldering iron over the strips with monitor turned on for immediate feedback
-either you locate spot where picture gets better, only this spot needs fixing
-or you cant locate such a spot, meaning strips are not the problem, and replacing tcon chip is the last resort

OK. Thanks!!! Good to know.

Except moving my finger on the tape. Very interesting results. 1st time, the monitor screen seemed to flash light. At one strip the text (Dell Self Test) was all clear.
-was it all clear and moving around? good

Yes

-or did screen flash and got undistorted for a split second before going blank? this means nothing

It did this at first. Then after spraying DEOXIT on the ends of the ribbon connectors and on the connectors themselves, the flashing stopped.

-or it froze during refresh, this is why its best to have something moving playing on the tv

Very good point.

You cant fix something without first diagnosing actual source of the problem. So far your efforts went in the opposite direction, replacing not broken things just because they were easy to get :)

I agree. Replacing caps not broken - not needed. Overkill. Took 5 min. Just checking if there might be any improvement with higher quality Panasonic caps / greater voltage 35V vs 25V.

Tests I did that were valid -
- Using a replacement power board / main board - confirmed caps were not a problem
- Switching flat ribbons and using them with a replacement main board - told me ribbons / connectors were not the problem
- Spraying ribbon connectors with Deoxit cleaner - even rubbing them with a pencil eraser - helped a little - doing this corrected another bad LCD Screen with line problems (Tamil video)
- Running a finger over the strips - while monitor was on to see if lines stopped (did this 1st time) - double text box + garbled text + lines - still remained (Dell Self Test = only power on)

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Will try the heat on the strips with the monitor turned ON.

What about the monitor power on switch - always on?

Thanks.



« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 07:25:32 pm by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #68 on: August 29, 2019, 11:58:40 pm »
Found duct tape to make this monitor look like new - if I can ever get it fixed. No RF shielding. $1.49 for 2 IN X 10 YDS
And a new eraser for 99 cents. (Tamil Ribbon Connector Test)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 02:58:24 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2019, 02:41:38 am »
Just in case this might work - tried rubbing ribbon contacts with the new eraser. Dell Self Test = no improvement. Garbled text + double text boxes.

Paper bag under board enclosure keeping it raised and safe from making contact with panel chips.
Monitor powered on - no connection to PC - Ran the flat hot soldering iron 300C on each of the strips PCB contact area - dabbing a second or two - without tin foil - No tape melted. No change. Working left to right.
At the 3rd / 4th strip from the left, Top Text box became 100% clear!!!!!!! Double text box remained. As white box reached left screen edge, text became garbled again.

Would you apply more heat to the tape? What would you do?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 05:58:51 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2019, 07:06:41 pm »
I would listen to myself and plug a signal into tv to see better what is going on :)
this box is moving around all the time, its possible there is position on the panel where one part becomes clear despite the defect
IMO it doesnt look like its the strips, you can try ordering that $12 chip
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2019, 07:39:03 pm »
... there is position on the panel where one part becomes clear despite the defect

Now I see what you mean. Took a photo of the Monitor hooked up to the PC with an HDMI cable.

IMO it doesnt look like its the strips, you can try ordering that $12 chip

Paused heating the strips to not damage them. Ordered the chip today.

Let's see if this chip makes a difference! Thanks!!

Arrived -

CIRCUITWORKS CW3220 NO CLEAN SOLDERING LIQUID FLUX LEAD FREE
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CIRCUITWORKS-CW3220-NO-CLEAN-SOLDERING-LIQUID-FLUX-LEAD-FREE-USA-seller/182592245714?

Arriving soon -

SMT SMD Component Welding Practice PCB Board Soldering Plate DIY Suite Kit -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMT-SMD-Component-Welding-Practice-PCB-Board-Soldering-Plate-DIY-Suite-Kit/163044288173?

Fast Chip Kit for Quik SMD Removal with a Low Temperature Alloy Arriving soon -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fast-Chip-Kit-for-Quik-SMD-Removal-with-a-Low-Temperature-Alloy/163808650408?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 06:46:32 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2019, 11:31:15 pm »
Have practice circuit boards - SMD alloy - Flux - Chip!!! Need to practice this week, then do the real chip removal / install.
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2019, 12:25:46 am »
Have all parts. Practiced adding. Then removing. Then adding an IC Chip to a test Practice board using plenty of flux. Anchoring diagonally opposing legs. Then swiping the legs of the chip with just enough solder to hold it to the board. Will remove the chip in place now with SMD Fast Chip. Lowers boiling point of solder so I can carefully remove the IC with tweezers. Clean up with SMD alloy with desolder wicking, then Isopropyl alcohol. If needed, will gently scrub area with fiberglass brush. Then solder new chip using lots of flux.

Showing the Chip I will replace and it's location in the monitor board.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 12:27:55 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #74 on: October 05, 2019, 06:07:05 am »
Replaced chip. Top side of the replaced chip kept oozing metal. Tried desoldering wick. Could not soak this up. Removed chip then added it back again. Upper left contacts gone from trying to desolder the oozing metal from the chip. Possibly this chip is applied with a suction cup and robot soldering. Why is metal oozing from top of chip? Thanks.

Saturday will reassemble the Monitor to see 1) does it explode 2) will it work or 3) is it permanently lost in the land of dead PCs!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 06:20:01 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2019, 06:59:40 am »
those "practice" boards are useless. Its better to get a piece of actual modern electronics, pcb from random printer or old graphic card will do.
I dont know what you mean by oozing metal, its probably whatever junk is in Fast Chip, gallium? Its always more trouble than help, can corrode metals, needs cleaning.
no hotair = this train wreck :( bend pins/lifted pads.
I hope you didnt mean powering it on in the state from the uploaded pictures, its not even sitting on proper pads not to mention pool of solder.
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2019, 07:54:59 am »
Cleaned the board with isoproply alcohol. Hooked up monitor to pc. No desktop. Just white background.

What does it mean when there is just white background and no desktop. Monitor plugged into PC.

Clean straight lines!!! No fuzzy garbage!! Should I remove the chip again, clean the chip, then put it in? Or is this it? Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 08:09:26 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2019, 11:31:30 am »
the chip on your picture is not even sitting on the pads, and half the pins are shorted with solder
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2019, 12:01:37 pm »
Chip misaligned by 2 pads in horizontal direction, most of the pins shorted  :clap:.
 
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2019, 03:58:01 pm »
Chip misaligned by 2 pads in horizontal direction, most of the pins shorted
the chip on your picture is not even sitting on the pads, and half the pins are shorted with solder
Told you the pins on the top had oozing solder come out of the chip. Will remove. Clean. Reinstall.
Sitting on the pads? I see now what you are talking about.  |O  Very small. Any ideas for soldering this to the board? :box:
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 04:06:52 pm by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2019, 04:05:02 pm »
Sitting on the pads? Please explain. How would you add this chip and solder it?
Place chip on PCB so that pins of IC match the pads on PCB and solder it properly. Not put in on PCB randomly, cover pads with bunch of solder and assume that work is done  :palm:. At least use some flux, preferably gel type.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 04:06:39 pm by wraper »
 
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2019, 04:10:29 pm »
Also you shorted C102 and C103 with a solder blob. Not that it matters with all that mess.
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2019, 04:48:04 pm »
Hi!!! Everything helps!!! Watching your video is fantastic!! Thank you. I have that solder tip. Comments from both of you are great!! Making coffee. Going out to get Kimwipes.

Question - how do you hold such a small chip in place? Tweezer? Tape? Thought Control? I have a magnifying glass that helps.

Question - Monitor is always ON. How do you fix the ON / OFF monitor switch? Earlier, able to test colors - so individual buttons must work. How do I fix this? Thanks!!

« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 04:53:55 pm by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2019, 08:45:38 pm »
You could use a small amount of superglue under the chip (but that makes removing it rather difficult). Or handsolder two pins on opposite edges to hold it in place. Oh, and make sure that the chip is not rotated 90°/180° when you solder it back in.

If you have flux, apply a generous amount along the solder pads.

EDIT: Please do NOT use that "SMD desoldering" stuff if it feels mushy when you heat it. They did not provide any information about the composition of that alloy, and that is a massive red flag: Indium is rather expensive (you need 20% Indium for an alloy with that melting point), and if they don't provide the exact composition chances are they cheaped out and used normal Wood's metal. And that stuff is extremely nasty (it contains 12% cadmium, an extremely toxic element), the last thing you want to do is inhale the vapors when you heat it.

About that "the chip kept oozing metal" part: Have you by chance soldered it with your SMD alloy? Bad idea, that stuff is only good for desoldering as it will expand when it cools down to room temperature.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 09:22:39 pm by jogri »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2019, 09:17:28 pm »
Original Chip. Circle is upper left corner.
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2019, 11:07:36 pm »
Can't seem to get solder off the chip. Bent pins and solder between pins. Concerned about SMD Cadmium Toxic vapors. Well the IC chip is off the board again.

Might order one more IC chip and see if I can get it to work with better soldering techniques. Thinking a small drop of superglue might not be a bad idea. Going to throw it all out anyway if it won't work.


« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 11:17:26 pm by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2019, 11:56:49 pm »
superglue is a terrible idea
it seems you didnt see what you were doing, you need some kind of magnification
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2019, 12:57:17 am »
Thanks Rasz. Had a magnifying glass. Problem: put liquid flux all over the replacement carea, and the chip was floating here and there. Hard to hold the magnifying glass,  a tweezer on the chip, and the soldering iron all while anchoring a corner. When anchoring a corner of a chip you only put the flux there? Like to know what people do that works.

Cleaned the chip area. Missing a pad upper left corner. Does it matter?

C102 and C103 - removed solder blob
C107 and C108 - removed solder blob

See the need to get a head magnifier. Amazon.
- https://www.amazon.com/MIYAKO-Magnifying-Illuminated-Multi-Power-Magnifier/dp/B01LX473GP/ref=sr_1_6?
- https://www.amazon.com/Illumify-Lighted-Magnifier-Visor-Removable/dp/B01B7SLFGQ/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?

Order a 2nd chip?

If I buy a 2nd chip (12.00) and the Head Magnifier (13.00 + Shipping+ tax = 20.00). Total = 32.00 - Need to wait on spending

« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 01:51:54 am by rockblues »
 

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2019, 09:23:21 am »
I personally find those head magnifiers to be a PITA, i prefer a binocular microscope (the ones with x2/x4 magnification) or a USB microscope attached to a monitor. I personally don't use additional flux when i am soldering the corners, i hold the chip down with tweezers (with heatshrink on their ends so they don't glide away) while soldering the corners. A small tip on your soldering iron helps a lot, just apply a small amount of solder to it and touch the pin.

Btw, good news: I found the datasheet of your smd alloy (they had it tucked away on their website), it seems that they use a harmless alloy with indium: https://www.sra-shops.com/docs/srasolder/sds/sds-fastchip.pdf
 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2019, 11:21:16 am »
I also find head magnifiers pretty useless, they are a perfect "as seen on TV" Chinese garbage that sounds good on paper until you try one
was missing pad connected to anything? cant see on the picture

hit a local recycle bin/goodwill and pick modern broken piece of electronics (~10 year old laptop will do) to properly practice on real pcbs with ground planes and small pitch chips, repeat until your removed/soldered back parts look just like before procedure.

personally I think you keep throwing good money after bad, especially with no experience. Sounds like you turned monitor on with that abomination of a soldering job = shorts everywhere, wouldnt be surprised if something else got damaged in the process.
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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2019, 06:29:06 pm »
- Waiting for 2 replacement IC chips from China
- Practicing removing attaching IC chips on real boards - Great idea Rasz!!
- Will use a VIDEO CAMERA to zoom in on chip as I align it to the pads for correct positioning on the board.
- We will see if this monitor can be saved


- https://www.howardelectronics.com/safe-and-sane-smd-repair/

Removing SMDs The Safe Way
The new, smart way to remove SMDs is with a special solder made by Chip Quik Available at HEI (1-800-394-1984) Chip Quik Products. The solder is an alloy of tin, lead, indium, and bismuth. Bismuth is a heavy metal that's one step above lead on the periodic table, and is the most diamagnetic of all metals with a thermal conductivity lower than any other metal, except mercury.
When tin and bismuth are "amalgamated," it reduces the melting point of the solder to a very low 136 °F, as opposed to the 361 °F melting point of 60/40 solder. When you meld the two together —- that is, melt the new solder with the old — the resultant alloy has a melting point of about 150 °F (well below the boiling point of water). At temperatures this low, it's nearly impossible to damage the solder pads.

Clean up the residue with an alcohol-wetted cotton swab.

The procedure is easy and painless. It involves four easy steps, which are outlined in the photos. The process starts by applying a drop of flux from the included syringe to each lead of the part to be removed. Next, melt a dab of Chip Quik solder on each to the leads using a small (30W) soldering iron — just pretend like you're soldering the chip in place rather than removing it. Be liberal with the Chip Quik solder, and don't worry about solder bridges (slipovers). Once the leads are treated, apply heat to the leads until the new solder is molten, and lift the SMD off the board using a dental tool or vacuum pick. After the part is removed, you'll notice an unsightly mess left behind. This is solder "ash," a result of the interaction between the ChipQuik solder and the old solder, which has to be removed to expose the pad underneath. Clean-up is done with a cotton swab dipped in flux, followed by an alcohol wipe. The Chip Quik SMD-1 SMD Removal Kit contains enough solder to remove 8-10 44-pin SOIC packages.

SMD Replacement
What's left is a clean footprint, ready to accept the new SMD. The new part can be soldered in place using any number of techniques. My favorite is wetted solder paste, like the R244 formula from Kester (available from Digi-Key, 1-800-344-4539; http://www.digikey.com ). This paste is a blend of 90 percent solder and 10 percent gooey flux that is applied in a bead along the newly-cleaned pads using a syringe. With a pair of tweezers and magnifier, carefully align the new SMD in place so that it lands squarely on the pads. Let it set for a few hours to harden the paste. Use a low-wattage iron — about 15 watts — with the smallest chisel-tip you can buy (RadioShack 64-2055, or equivalent) to solder the chip in place. Begin by tacking down two or three of the corner leads. This prevents the chip from shifting while you heat the remaining leads. A trick of the trade is to heat the bottom side of the circuit board to about 150 °F with a hair dryer or hot air gun before soldering the chip. This reduces the amount of time it takes for the solder to reflow when touched by the soldering iron, thereby lowering the heat transferred to the IC and reducing the risk of damage.

Another trick is to drag the solder tip parallel to the body of the IC (perpendicular to the leads) at a rate just slow enough to melt the solder along the way.
Never touch the pads or the pins; let the ball of solder carry the load of the work for you. Combining these two techniques minimizes chip heating and all but eliminates solder bridges.
The final step is to clean up the board using rubbing alcohol and a solder brush or a CFC-free solvent, like HFE-71DA — a hydrofluoroether, azeotrope formulation with trans-1, 2-dichloroethylene and ethanol, from 3M. This mixture is well-suited to defluxing and degreasing tasks, and is intended to replace ozone-depleting compounds. You can obtain free four-ounce samples directly from 3M at http://www.3m.com.

And It's Done! Really — that's it. Sound too simple to be true? Don't take my word for it. Order a free sample of Chip Quik solder via their web site, and try it for yourself. You'll soon discover that there's still life in those defective SMD toys and tools.


« Last Edit: October 22, 2019, 06:37:34 pm by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #91 on: November 07, 2019, 12:05:04 am »
This looks like a great way to Solder SMD - Expensive

How To Solder SMD Using Solder Paste at the Bench. Solder Like a Pro.


$2,335.70
Zephyrtronics - ZT-1-HIS-DPU - AirBath with Digital Control, 25 cfm Air Volume
https://www.neobits.com/zephyrtronics_zt_1_his_dpu_airbath_with_digital_p3969667.html


Less expensive
How to Solder Surface Mount parts (it's easy!) - YouTube


Note - The above technique is NOT USING LIQUID FLUX!!! - Tacks one corner then each leg is soldered.
Liquid Flux caused my chip to "float" - and made it extremely hard to solder the chip accurately to the board. Also my chip was smaller than this chip, not possible to solder each leg one by one.
For very small legs, must swipe across with just a bit of solder left on the edge of the tip.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 12:41:19 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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  • Posts: 56
  • Country: us
Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #92 on: November 07, 2019, 01:30:12 am »
Need to practice this as well -

Professional SMT Soldering: Hand Soldering Techniques - Surface Mount

1:33 - Uses Kapton Tape to Hold the chip in place while one corner is soldered / tacked in

0:26 - 1) Wipe pads with isopropyl alcohol to clean 2) tin bevel iron tip 3) wipe tinned tip 4) tack solder 4 corners
0:56 - Multilead sweep technique - lay solder against legs and touch side of solder with iron - wipe with fiberglass brush and clean with isopropyl alcohol
1:20 - Point-to-point technique with chisel tip

IC Chip with very small legs -
1:33 - Kapton tape holds chip in place!!!
1:41 - Part 1 - apply solder paste - tack corners - apply strip of flux. Tin iron tip with solder. Run iron across legs flat side down. Wipe w/fiberglass brush. Clean w/ isopropyl alcohol.
2:24 - Part 2 - flux laid down as a strip. Tin iron tip with solder. Run iron across legs - wipe w/fiberglass brush. Clean with isopropyl alcohol.


Another Master Soldering Video - Putting this here - to find it to watch and learn
Master Soldering: Surface Mount Fine-Pitch - Highly Recommended

2:18 - 15 mil ultra-fine pitch
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 02:10:21 am by rockblues »
 

Offline rockblues

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  • Posts: 56
  • Country: us
Re: LCD Monitor has rough screen with ripples
« Reply #93 on: Today at 01:24:21 am »
Received replacement chips from China. Got an inexpensive 30X hand held Lupe for magnification - for chip alignment. Realize, tack corners 1st, THEN apply the liquid flux. Fine. Some heat their boards before soldering.

Writing now, as I realize my soldering iron may not be good for SMD work. The replacement chip is very small.

What soldering irons do you use?


1) Soldering iron I have -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MYR52V7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00

2) Soldering iron I have with different removable Tips -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01H1IFT54/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Recommended Soldering Iron -

FX-951 Solder Iron Soldering Station with T12-k Iron Tip Holder
https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Station-Support-time-Temperature-Correction/dp/B07XTFTF23/ref=sr_1_10?


Recommended Tips -

T12-BCF2 Kit Series Solder Iron Tip Tips For HAKKO Soldering Rework Station
https://www.amazon.com/T12-BCF2-Solder-Soldering-Rework-Station/dp/B07JKTDNW8/ref=sr_1_2

T12-BCF3 Kit Series Solder Iron Tip
https://www.amazon.com/T12-BCF3-Solder-Soldering-Rework-Station/dp/B07JKWYYGW/ref=sr_1_1

T12-K Kit Series Solder Iron Tip
https://www.amazon.com/T12-K-Solder-Soldering-Rework-Station/dp/B07JKSW931/ref=sr_1_7

FM-2028 Welding Soldering Iron Handle
https://www.amazon.com/FM-2028-Welding-Soldering-Station-Compatible/dp/B07B8S37HG
« Last Edit: Today at 01:29:27 am by rockblues »
 


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