EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Repair => Topic started by: coppercone2 on March 28, 2021, 08:08:21 pm
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If you need to glue on something that you might need to get under one day, what is a good glue ? Particularly for a lens type thing, my crimp tool has a plastic graduated cover that fits over a slot that shows the crimp setting. I had to pry it off (thankfully easy) because it was filled with some kind of weird fuzz underneath!.
So I am thinking what is a good glue that is slightly gummy, peelable and stable.
I feel like fucking around with epoxy or super glue is a bad idea here. Electronics silicone spread with a tooth pick?
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red silicone sealant as used in automotive industry or similar
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"Rubber cement" was an old solution, but not a very good adhesive. (e.g., https://www.target.com/p/elmer-39-s-4oz-rubber-cement-adhesive-with-brush-applicator/-/A-17088978?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012806747&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=SC_Seasonal_School/Office+Supplies&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=c&location=9015391&targetid=pla-1430701857778&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8f6Aku3W9QIVQhB9Ch2rPQkbEAQYBSABEgLGdfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.target.com/p/elmer-39-s-4oz-rubber-cement-adhesive-with-brush-applicator/-/A-17088978?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012806747&CPNG=PLA_Seasonal%2BShopping_Local%7CSeasonal_Ecomm_Home&adgroup=SC_Seasonal_School/Office+Supplies&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=c&location=9015391&targetid=pla-1430701857778&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1247068&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8f6Aku3W9QIVQhB9Ch2rPQkbEAQYBSABEgLGdfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds) )
The modern stuff used to stick credit cards to envelope inserts and similar temporary applications may be ideal. Its appearance suggests it may be a hot melt.
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lol, I think I used electronics silicone dotted on with a q-tip.. the red silicone looks to be worth investigating
rubber cement expired in the fridge for me
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You could look at liquid gasket products like Loctite 518, which seem to do what you want...
[Disclaimer, I've not used this actual product myself so YMMV]
LOCTITE® 518 cures when confined in the absence of air between close-fitting metal surfaces. It is an anaerobic gasketing material designed for use on rigid iron, aluminum, and steel flanged mating surfaces. LOCTITE 518 fills gaps up to 0.25mm and forms a flexible, chemical-resistant seal that will not tear or decay. Parts disassemble easily, even after extended service. Typical applications include sealing close-fitting joints between rigid metal faces and flanges. It is also used as a formed-in-place gasket on rigid flanged connections, e.g. transmissions and motor housings.
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If you need to glue on something that you might need to get under one day, what is a good glue ? Particularly for a lens type thing, my crimp tool has a plastic graduated cover that fits over a slot that shows the crimp setting. I had to pry it off (thankfully easy) because it was filled with some kind of weird fuzz underneath!.
So I am thinking what is a good glue that is slightly gummy, peelable and stable.
I feel like fucking around with epoxy or super glue is a bad idea here. Electronics silicone spread with a tooth pick?
Contact cement is the stuff most similar to the adhesive backing on self-adhesive things. It comes in many kinds. But glue is likely the wrong approach entirely.
They sell double sided tapes specifically for lens (by which I assume you mean bezels/front panels, not optical lenses) attachment. Easy to find on AliExpress.
I’ve used ordinary double-stick tape for this purpose before. You want the art/hobby kind that has a separate liner (not the office kind that peels off without a liner, like ordinary scotch tape), so that you stick it down with the liner still protecting the other sticky surface while you trim it down. Then you peel the liner off just before joining the objects.
I’d also take a look at 3M VHB tapes. They’re “double-sided” tapes that I put in quotes because it’s not so much double-sided as it is simply a layer of adhesive with no backing tape to begin with; it’s basically either clear acrylic gel or foam adhesive with a liner so it can be unrolled and applied. It works great for semipermanent applications onto smooth surfaces, with a strong hold but clean removal. It’s available in various thicknesses, you’d probably want a thin one.
Another thing, similar in concept, is the 3M “Command” adhesive strips used on self-stick hooks and whatnot. They’re quite similar to VHB, but have pull tabs: pull on the tab and the adhesive stretches and pulls away without damaging the surface. (These are what Apple now uses in their gadgets to keep the batteries from rattling around, while still making removal quick and safe, since you don’t want people digging around lipo batteries with screwdrivers or knives…)
Tesa makes equivalents to all these products, and no-name manufacturers make clones of varying quality.
Oh yeah: in all cases, you need to make sure the surfaces have been thoroughly cleaned before applying glue or tape: free of dust, free of oils, and free of water. (Wipe down with solvent.)
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"Rubber cement" was an old solution, but not a very good adhesive.
Rubber cement is a very mild contact cement, basically. Applied to one surface only, it’s not unlike Post-It note adhesive. Applied to both surfaces, more like a self-sealed manila envelope. In all cases, like every contact cement, it must be allowed to dry before joining.
There are spray adhesives for the graphic arts called mounting spray, the repositionable one is very similar to rubber cement. The permanent kind is more like a strong contact cement.
The modern stuff used to stick credit cards to envelope inserts and similar temporary applications may be ideal. Its appearance suggests it may be a hot melt.
Yeah, it very much looks like hot-melt, but that being an industrial hot-melt, it’s going to be exceedingly difficult to use for this application, since industrial hot melt is generally not available in consumer quantities, nor in any format usable in a consumer glue gun. Given that this stuff is very soft at room temperature, I suspect it’s shipped in chunks for feeding into a hopper. There’s no way it could be used in standard 11mm or 7mm glue stick form.
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https://www.hotmelt.com/products/surebonder-10530-credit-card-peelable-glue?variant=39822619279550¤cy=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycaXlc_X9QIVY3xvBB3awQK1EAQYAyABEgJLw_D_BwE (https://www.hotmelt.com/products/surebonder-10530-credit-card-peelable-glue?variant=39822619279550¤cy=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycaXlc_X9QIVY3xvBB3awQK1EAQYAyABEgJLw_D_BwE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XMYxpgcSLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XMYxpgcSLA)
Looks to me like consumer quantities are available.
Edit: Here are a couple of more links ("fugitive glue"):
https://www.hotmelt.com/products/3m-scotch-weld-3798-low-temp-gummy-glue-hot-melt?variant=25974888139 (https://www.hotmelt.com/products/3m-scotch-weld-3798-low-temp-gummy-glue-hot-melt?variant=25974888139)
https://glueit.com/category/applications/printing/fugitive/ (https://glueit.com/category/applications/printing/fugitive/)
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One of the most useful things in my arsenal of "gluey things" is 3m ReMount which is just basically spray on post-it note adhesive. Great for making any temporary lightweight fixing including stencils, workholding and many others. Might be a bit lightweight for what you're doing, but worth buying a can anyway because it will come in useful one day.
Using a latex rubber adhesive on both surfaces as a contact adhesive might be a runner - it will pull off non-porous surfaces with no damage but that also means that it won't hold much weight relative to gluing area. Like other natural rubber adhesives it tends to degrade and get gummy over time.
Hot melt is always an option. You might have to preheat a metal surface to give you enough open time to use it.
PVA adhesive is much more effective on non-porous surfaces than you might think. PVA is reversible, get it warm and wet and it yields enough to remove mechanically, get it warm, wet and alkaline and it breaks down and releases in quite short order. Downside is that a closed non-porous pair of surfaces is going to have a drying time running into days.
Cyanoacrylate is right out, it will off-gas before it cures completely and will almost certainly cloud any transparent plastic around.
You could go really old-school and use the original hot-melt, rabbit skin glue. Or rosin/colophony or friar's balsam (the original optical adhesive). Or a wax based glue like museum wax. Museum wax has the attraction, like its name suggests, that it is non-marking, very long term stable and 100% removable.
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Cyanoacrylate is right out, it will off-gas before it cures completely and will almost certainly cloud any transparent plastic around.
There are non-fogging varieties. In fact, Eastman Kodak invented developed CA for attaching lenses in its cameras. Today, there are relatively heat stable versions, but some of the early versions depolymerized at less than 100°C. Thus, use with some objects could be made temporary.
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its like a optical lens, there is a screw with a indicator on it, the lens is transparent and has a scale on it. for 4 point crimps to control crimp depth. most of the crimp tools have a rotary knob thats graduated but this is an older one
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You may need to call Fraser in Thermal Cameras subforum, he should be able to give an expert advice.
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Cyanoacrylates were originally developed by Harry Coover and others while working at B.F.Goodrich which patented (US2467927A) but didn't exploit them (they were looking for a glue for PMMA aircraft canopies and the methyl cyanoacrylate they developed wasn't suitable for this, precisely because it fogged PMMA). Coover then later went to work for Eastman Kodak who did commercially exploit methyl cyanoacrylate (presumably under license from B.F.Goodrich). The original cyanoacrylate that Eastman sold was Eastman 910, which was methyl cyanoacrylate which is not one of the later non-fogging cyanoacrylates things, so no, Eastman didn't invent cyanoacrylate for attaching lenses to cameras.
My experience with "non-fogging" cyanoacrylates suggests that they would be better described as "less-fogging". Although something like alkoxyethyl cyanoacrylate won't immediately wreck a sheet of PMMA in the way that methyl CA will, but it will still produce fogging in confined spaces where the vapour isn't adequately vented. They advertise these things as low-odour or low-volatility but they still produce vapour, just not as much of it. That vapour will still attach just as enthusiastically as the vapour from higher volatility cyanoacrylates will to every surface that will accept it.
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Edited my comment.
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https://www.hotmelt.com/products/surebonder-10530-credit-card-peelable-glue?variant=39822619279550¤cy=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycaXlc_X9QIVY3xvBB3awQK1EAQYAyABEgJLw_D_BwE (https://www.hotmelt.com/products/surebonder-10530-credit-card-peelable-glue?variant=39822619279550¤cy=USD&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIycaXlc_X9QIVY3xvBB3awQK1EAQYAyABEgJLw_D_BwE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XMYxpgcSLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XMYxpgcSLA)
Looks to me like consumer quantities are available.
Edit: Here are a couple of more links ("fugitive glue"):
https://www.hotmelt.com/products/3m-scotch-weld-3798-low-temp-gummy-glue-hot-melt?variant=25974888139 (https://www.hotmelt.com/products/3m-scotch-weld-3798-low-temp-gummy-glue-hot-melt?variant=25974888139)
https://glueit.com/category/applications/printing/fugitive/ (https://glueit.com/category/applications/printing/fugitive/)
Literally proves my point: all of that except one requires specialty applicators, even if you can get it in consumer quantities, only some of which was.
The one in the video is the exception, but it looks to me like it’s probably a low-tack/high-wax version of ordinary hot melt glue, since in the video it is shown pulling off as a solid piece. It’s not the tacky, gummy stuff I assumed you were talking about.
Regardless, I don’t think anything along these lines is appropriate for what the OP is looking to do.
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its like a optical lens, there is a screw with a indicator on it, the lens is transparent and has a scale on it. for 4 point crimps to control crimp depth. most of the crimp tools have a rotary knob thats graduated but this is an older one
By “optical” lenses, we mean things like lenses in eyeglasses, microscopes, cameras, etc. Not a “transparent thing” lens like the “lenses” that simply cover an indicator.
So… any thoughts on the many, many thoughtful suggestions lots of us made?
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Well, I guess $17.00 in your mind is a commercial quantity. Not for me. BTW, I gave additional links for consumer quantities in my earlier post.
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Well, I guess $17.00 in your mind is a commercial quantity. Not for me. BTW, I gave additional links for consumer quantities in my earlier post.
|O
I saw all of the links including the edit.
I stated two criteria:
1. Available in consumer quantities
2. Dispenses in a normal consumer hot glue gun
None of the products you linked appears to meet both of those criteria.
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its like a optical lens, there is a screw with a indicator on it, the lens is transparent and has a scale on it. for 4 point crimps to control crimp depth. most of the crimp tools have a rotary knob thats graduated but this is an older one
By “optical” lenses, we mean things like lenses in eyeglasses, microscopes, cameras, etc. Not a “transparent thing” lens like the “lenses” that simply cover an indicator.
So… any thoughts on the many, many thoughtful suggestions lots of us made?
well I am not gonna evaluate any of this stuff because the thread is almost year old zombie thread and I said I fixed it with silicone electronics sealant on a gamble and it seems to be holding up OK. I can't really say anything until I decide to buy something...
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I stated two criteria:
1. Available in consumer quantities
2. Dispenses in a normal consumer hot glue gun
None of the products you linked appears to meet both of those criteria.
Yes, sir. Who appointed you ?
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I stated two criteria:
1. Available in consumer quantities
2. Dispenses in a normal consumer hot glue gun
None of the products you linked appears to meet both of those criteria.
Yes, sir. Who appointed you ?
Ummm... your list was a direct response to the following comment of mine:
The modern stuff used to stick credit cards to envelope inserts and similar temporary applications may be ideal. Its appearance suggests it may be a hot melt.
Yeah, it very much looks like hot-melt, but that being an industrial hot-melt, it’s going to be exceedingly difficult to use for this application, since industrial hot melt is generally not available in consumer quantities, nor in any format usable in a consumer glue gun. Given that this stuff is very soft at room temperature, I suspect it’s shipped in chunks for feeding into a hopper. There’s no way it could be used in standard 11mm or 7mm glue stick form.