Author Topic: Local electricians puzzled  (Read 6619 times)

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Offline antennaTopic starter

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Local electricians puzzled
« on: March 10, 2022, 12:23:55 am »
Several days ago, my grandmother smelled something unusual near the breaker panel in the garage. It was full of corrosion and things were falling apart. A week ago today, the electrician she hired replaced all the breakers and bus assemblies in all three panels. Today, just a week later, this is what it looks like. From the looks of it, one might assume nothing was replaced, however, the ones he removed are still sitting on the floor and she witnessed the new ones go in. 

There are a few mysteries. This is an interior wall with no plumbing and everything in the attic directly above is perfectly dry. There is no cold draft coming from the conduit, the panel enclosure is not cold and the metal does not seem to be collecting condensation. There is a sticky black goo coming from essentially every one of the wiring jackets. The white/yellow corrosion tastes salty and our first assumption was that the garage floor heat is putting too much salty moisture (from vehicles) in the air, but the 50 year old steel square hanging on the wall right by the panels is not rusting, nor is anything else in the garage.

Anyone know what can cause this to happen in a week?
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2022, 12:24:44 am »
Gonna add a couple more pictures here
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2022, 12:25:17 am »
Here is the goo I was talking about
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2022, 12:27:24 am »
That is a *ton* of salt especially in a closed-off space. Doesn't even look like corrosion, just plain salt like someone poured salt water over it.
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2022, 12:58:33 am »
I was thinking salt too but salt isn't yellow. These two pics (sorry for multiple posts, pics are too large) are from what was removed. I didn't get a picture of the guts from the really bad panel..
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2022, 01:00:08 am »
old guts from middle panel
 

Online langwadt

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2022, 01:18:57 am »
something must be leaking somewhere, can't see any other way you'd get that much corrosion that fast (unless you have an open bottle of acid near by)
maybe the leak is not close by but entering via the cables ?
 
 

Offline gerts

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2022, 01:27:23 am »
Are the service entrance wires coming into the panel fed from a conduit -- possibly underground.  What's the goop on the service wires in the panel on the left where they enter the panel at the bottom.  Looks like grey caulk.  Strange.  My guess is that a breached conduit to the panel is allowing some kind of liquid to enter panel.  I've had a well that decided to go artesian feed water into a panel.
 

Offline electr_peter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2022, 01:46:38 am »
Liquids can travel inside the insulation (around the copper gaps, capillary action + gravity) and cause issues. There were cases when oil leaked from oil filled machine to the breaker panel in industrial settings.
What are the cables connected to? Are they going through potentially salty/chemical environment? Look for "missing stuff" around, something is leaking.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2022, 01:49:08 am »
It's not a leak if it's coming from every cable. It's plasticiser migration.
 
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Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2022, 01:51:53 am »
They do not have any acid in the garage, and again, other surfaces in the garage are not doing this.

The gray goop is a putty the electrician used to prevent cold air from coming through the conduit from the panel outside (even though no cold draft was felt). That one with the putty is the only one that goes outside and it is now sealed.  The garage did have a very high humidity level due to the heated floor and snow from vehicles, but its down to 30% now. 

The tar from the wiring above was dripping on the wires, not sure if that has something to do with it. The tar is sticky and if touched pulls into fine strands like touching hot glue before it cools.  The top breaker has a wet spot that feels strange on the skin almost like a saturated salt solution that had a bit of oil emulsified in. 

Those panels are for interior stuff only, and it is a typical house with no strange equipment. The only thing in the house that uses salt is the water softener one level lower.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 01:54:27 am by antenna »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2022, 01:53:07 am »
something must be leaking somewhere, can't see any other way you'd get that much corrosion that fast (unless you have an open bottle of acid near by)
maybe the leak is not close by but entering via the cables ?

That looks very like corrosion I've seen from HCl fumes, but I'd expect that to have proper go at any exposed steel too.

Has anyone been using concrete cleaner nearby? Is there a drain that could be off gassing acid fumes from someone dumping in another nearby drain?

Granny cooking Meth and not telling you about it?  :)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline AlbertL

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2022, 02:08:21 am »
It's interesting that the breaker handles are almost completely clean, while the rest of the breaker case immediately adjacent is heavily affected.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2022, 03:16:19 am »
The different colours and general appearance remind me of bacterial colonies on agar :-/
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Offline sleemanj

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2022, 03:18:56 am »
And you know that goo kinda looks....

Do we have any electrical engineering morticians or coroners in the house?
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Offline max.wwwang

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2022, 03:23:33 am »
Mysterious and intriguing.

But easy. If the process is that quick, just take a stool and sit there for half an hour (or longer if you like) and see what the heck the mystery is doing and then track it down.
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Offline amyk

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2022, 03:28:48 am »
I was thinking salt too but salt isn't yellow. These two pics (sorry for multiple posts, pics are too large) are from what was removed. I didn't get a picture of the guts from the really bad panel..
Does it have any smell (after all you were brave enough to taste it...)? Urine? :o
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2022, 03:58:27 am »
She had smelled something unusual when she discovered the problem, but I did not smell much of anything when I smelled it. The taste was very salty, but I do remember a strong after effect, almost burning for a minute. I didn't taste the yellow corrosion.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2022, 04:12:44 am »
those like like metal salts. the aluminum busbars are blooming...

are you charging lead-acid batteries in that area ?
is there a gas burning water heater in the area (water boiler exhaust gases are caustic. if the flue is blocked ...)
any condensate drain in the garage that may be venting gasses ( condensate is also caustic )
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 04:15:49 am by free_electron »
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Offline Bud

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2022, 05:13:48 am »
Mysterious and intriguing.

But easy. If the process is that quick, just take a stool and sit there for half an hour (or longer if you like) and see what the heck the mystery is doing and then track it down.

...if you won't drop dead from fumes before you spot the source of the issue  :o
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Offline Bud

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2022, 05:17:46 am »
The different colours and general appearance remind me of bacterial colonies on agar :-/

Ok so if this is a type of mold, then the electrician who dismantled and handled the old panel could transfer stuff onto the new breakers. Perhaps a good idea to give that fellow a call to see if he is still alive  :wtf:
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2022, 05:25:42 am »
Are the ends of the copper wires discolored or blackened? 
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Offline Chris Barth

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2022, 05:29:52 am »
Certainly is strange that this is from only one week! 

I notice the garage heat breakers are off.  Mold would be unlikely given its winter in the US (depends on your location though). Mold needs a food source and moisture. A little bleach spray could test by making any mold almost dissolve(not really dissolve but you get the point).

Really, really strange!  More Pics of the garage would help



 

Offline andy3055

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2022, 05:42:59 am »
You may have to open up the sheet rock wall above the enclosure and check. There might be a dead rat on top of the enclosure. Don't lick to check the taste. You never know what the hell it is!
 
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Offline fzabkar

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Re: Local electricians puzzled
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2022, 05:55:22 am »
Is there any chance of getting a metallurgy lab at a university or college to identify the chemical composition of the "salt"?
 


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