Author Topic: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun  (Read 2140 times)

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Offline tkamiya

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Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« on: March 25, 2019, 02:24:46 pm »
Would someone please recommend me a good hot air workstation/gun?  I saw Dave's video.  I have something similar.  In my case, the hand piece fell off half way from cradle and melted plastic.  ME thinks failure mode shouldn't be ON state.... 

I'm willing to pay reasonable $$ for good design. 

My use case is very occasional chip level repair, DIY, and heat shrink shrinking.  Function wise, what Dave showed is fine.  I just want it safe.
 

Offline vaser888

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2019, 04:05:05 pm »
I don't know which hot air workstation you currently have but I know that the Quick 861dw is highly recommended. (Have a look at reviews of that station)   
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2019, 04:14:48 pm »
The problem with the Quick 861DW (other than price) is that it's a 1000W unit.  That is a feature for the professional, but a problem for many US home users who only have 1 or 2 15A circuits available in the lab/workshop.

The 400W Quick 957DW+ is more practical for this reason (and cheaper), but is out of stock until sometime in April.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2019, 04:19:17 pm »
The problem with the Quick 861DW (other than price) is that it's a 1000W unit.  That is a feature for the professional, but a problem for many US home users who only have 1 or 2 15A circuits available in the lab/workshop.

The 400W Quick 957DW+ is more practical for this reason (and cheaper), but is out of stock until sometime in April.
How it's a problem? Unless you run 2 of them simultaneously, there won't be overload. Also it's not like it consumes 1000W constantly. After less than 10 seconds as it will reach target temperature, it will consume power only intermittently. It's like saying that using electric kettle (more power than 861DW) is a problem.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 04:22:38 pm by wraper »
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 04:25:05 pm »
Well, it can be a problem....  (I am a licensed electrician)

Typical homes in United States are wired 1 to 2 rooms to one circuit, which is normally 15A.  Then all of the socket in those rooms are connected to parallel.  Say you have few equipment running, then hot air gun kicks in, maybe something else comes on at NEXT room, BOOM, you lose your power.  (circuit breaker trips)

I knew this will be a problem, so I pulled in 30A circuit into 3KVA UPS.  This supplies power to test gears.  20A is reserved for just such situation high load has to be connected, and is currently lightly loaded.  15A is not used at all except for silly things like iphone chargers.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 04:36:15 pm »
Typical homes in United States are wired 1 to 2 rooms to one circuit, which is normally 15A.  Then all of the socket in those rooms are connected to parallel.  Say you have few equipment running, then hot air gun kicks in, maybe something else comes on at NEXT room, BOOM, you lose your power.  (circuit breaker trips)
You need to run something else with more than 800W power on the same circuit breaker for this to become a problem. Comparing to 957DW+ (580W) it would be additional 1220W to become a problem. Not such a huge difference.
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 04:40:57 pm »
If that's a suitable arrangement in your lab, go for it. 
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 04:46:44 pm »
Typical homes in United States are wired 1 to 2 rooms to one circuit, which is normally 15A.  Then all of the socket in those rooms are connected to parallel.  Say you have few equipment running, then hot air gun kicks in, maybe something else comes on at NEXT room, BOOM, you lose your power.  (circuit breaker trips)
You need to run something else with more than 800W power on the same circuit breaker for this to become a problem. Comparing to 957DW+ (580W) it would be additional 1220W to become a problem. Not such a huge difference.

As has been mentioned here and other places, the 957DW+ is actually rated at 400W.

It's like saying that using electric kettle (more power than 861DW) is a problem.

In a US kitchen, you usually can't run an electric kettle and a microwave oven at the same time - same issue.

 

Offline Hemi345

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 05:04:49 pm »
I really like my QUICK 857DW+  I don't know what the difference is between it and the 957DW+ other than the paint but it does a great job and is very quiet for how powerful the air flow is. The motor is in the cabinet instead of the hand piece.  I usually set it to about 300C and 1/2 way on the airflow knob to quickly remove or reflow components.  And it takes up very little space on my bench. :)
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 05:06:52 pm »
Would someone please recommend me a good hot air workstation/gun?  I saw Dave's video.  I have something similar.  In my case, the hand piece fell off half way from cradle and melted plastic.  ME thinks failure mode shouldn't be ON state.... 


Would you mind to tell us WHAT BRAND AND MODEL  melted apart ?

And for the record..   There is not much problem replacing  the 15A circuit brake
with a 30A one.  I have done this on a couple of them here.

Running  in 2 separate phases to relief the thermal
as long as you don't turn too much stuff at once...

Paul
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 05:10:20 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2019, 06:03:43 pm »
It's a HUGE deal to replace breakers to 30Amps.  Replacing circuit breaker itself is easy.  But, wire size must be upped, that means rewire through attic and walls.  Plus, 30Amp circuit cannot be branched.  One breaker, one outlet.  Mine is done that way.  I guess the point is, I can deal with this part.  An only issue is which hot air gun to buy.

I was going to buy an 1KW version.  I am assuming it can be dialed down to replace small smd?  Or not?  I'm looking for user's experience.  Is this an overkill?  I can spend up to $500 US.  I hate to buy same thing twice (like this).  So my next unit will have to be good, and do more.

Please see pictures for my current unit and its damage.  The cradle is not very well designed, and hand piece falls off easily, and that's what happened here.  Fortunately, I was right there, so no major damage, but it could be very very bad.
 

Offline edgelog

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2019, 06:41:03 pm »
Worth considering is also the Quick 861DE, a slight variation on the 861DW with 1200W instead of 1000W, and a higher max airflow. I first got a 858 hot air gun but quickly got the 861DE instead. There's no comparison in functionality and quality. Day and night.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2019, 06:55:35 pm »
Worth considering is also the Quick 861DE, a slight variation on the 861DW with 1200W instead of 1000W, and a higher max airflow. I first got a 858 hot air gun but quickly got the 861DE instead. There's no comparison in functionality and quality. Day and night.
DE version has some downsides. Like higher fan spin-up time and it's much louder when cooling down because it's doing it on max airflow, not to say price difference. So unless you really need 200 l/min airflow, it's wiser to buy DW version.
I am assuming it can be dialed down to replace small smd?  Or not?  I'm looking for user's experience.  Is this an overkill?  I can spend up to $500 US.  I hate to buy same thing twice (like this).  So my next unit will have to be good, and do more.
Airflow can be set within 1-120 l/min range. You can solder anything with it. No downsides compared with less powerful stations. Handle has thermal fuse within it, so something like on your pictures won't happen.
 

Offline edgelog

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2019, 07:01:49 pm »
Worth considering is also the Quick 861DE, a slight variation on the 861DW with 1200W instead of 1000W, and a higher max airflow. I first got a 858 hot air gun but quickly got the 861DE instead. There's no comparison in functionality and quality. Day and night.
DE version has some downsides. Like higher fan spin-up time and it's much louder when cooling down because it's doing it on max airflow, not to say price difference. So unless you really need 200 l/min airflow, it's wiser to buy DW version.

When I bought it, it was actually a little bit cheaper than the 861DW. Weird but true.

Interestingly, at this moment TEquipment seems to have a sale on the 861DW, see:

https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/

Looks like it's around $250 in the US (I'm only seeing Swedish prices, but that's what it converts to).
 

Offline frmdstryr

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2019, 07:39:12 pm »
Also looking and researching different units...

The Hakko FR-8XX units are the only ones I found that is has any safety certification (MET).
See manuals in https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/american-hakko-products-inc/FR810B-05/ . It's more expensive but used older units can be found on eBay regularly.  The few hundred bucks difference is not worth cutting corners IMHO.

Those who recommend the Quick stations, do they have any safety certifications?  There's none on the label so I'm assuming not.
 

Offline edgelog

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2019, 08:36:58 pm »
Mine has the CE mark on the label.
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 08:48:13 pm »
I really like my QUICK 857DW+  I don't know what the difference is between it and the 957DW+ other than the paint but it does a great job and is very quiet for how powerful the air flow is. The motor is in the cabinet instead of the hand piece.  I usually set it to about 300C and 1/2 way on the airflow knob to quickly remove or reflow components.  And it takes up very little space on my bench. :)

Where did you buy it?  Does it have a US warranty?  I have the impression it's a China only model.

Interestingly, at this moment TEquipment seems to have a sale on the 861DW, see:

https://www.tequipment.net/Quick/861DW/Desoldering-Equipment/Rework-Stations/

Looks like it's around $250 in the US (I'm only seeing Swedish prices, but that's what it converts to).

The 861DW is $258, or $243 with the EEVblog discount.  Looks like it's now out of stock there too, so check the lead time before ordering.

The 957DW+ is $86 with discount.



« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:55:50 pm by edavid »
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2019, 08:51:40 pm »
Yes, I want to know the safety features.  What's the failure mode?  Let's say the hand piece falls off of the holder.  What happens then?

I'm thinking if I wait long enough, someone will suggest ZZ version with 12 gigawatt heater and RollsRoyce jet engine for wind source.  Comes with its own nuclear power station.  Protestors included but counter protestors are option. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:53:49 pm by tkamiya »
 

Offline EHT

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2019, 09:06:33 pm »
I have an "Aoyue Int 852A+ Pro" which I'm quite happy with. I just use it for occasional use, for which it has been fine. It seems to be well enough made. It was about 100 GBP new.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2019, 09:18:19 pm »
Also looking and researching different units...

The Hakko FR-8XX units are the only ones I found that is has any safety certification (MET).
See manuals in https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/american-hakko-products-inc/FR810B-05/ . It's more expensive but used older units can be found on eBay regularly.  The few hundred bucks difference is not worth cutting corners IMHO.

Those who recommend the Quick stations, do they have any safety certifications?  There's none on the label so I'm assuming not.
Why would you pay more for inferior used station? FR810 is also very loud in comparison. Of course Quick has required safety certifications unless you buy version for different market. But even in that case there is nothing wrong with it, just certified for different market.
 

Offline frmdstryr

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2019, 10:00:36 pm »
Also looking and researching different units...

The Hakko FR-8XX units are the only ones I found that is has any safety certification (MET).
See manuals in https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/american-hakko-products-inc/FR810B-05/ . It's more expensive but used older units can be found on eBay regularly.  The few hundred bucks difference is not worth cutting corners IMHO.

Those who recommend the Quick stations, do they have any safety certifications?  There's none on the label so I'm assuming not.
Why would you pay more for inferior used station? FR810 is also very loud in comparison. Of course Quick has required safety certifications unless you buy version for different market. But even in that case there is nothing wrong with it, just certified for different market.

I have no experience with either station. I'm not claiming one is better than the other, just pointing out that the Quick from Dave's review has no markings on the label (see https://youtu.be/N_yHkrVYrBE?t=507) and various units from ebay (filtering by US only) that I looked at don't either.

Considering the title of this post has "and SAFE", can anyone with a US unit confirm if the Quick 861DW has a MET/UL/ETL or similar safety certification? 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:48:47 pm by frmdstryr »
 

Offline casinada

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2019, 11:48:59 pm »
Check
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/hot-air-station?c=8154&sort=price&dir=asc
They sell rebadged Aoyue and Yihua units. They are in the USA. I purchased the CSI899A+ in 2013 and just purchased CSI-STATION 2+. I only use it as a hobby.
This is not an endorsement I have no relationship with them. 
Good Luck  :)
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2019, 12:02:55 am »
just pointing out that the Quick from Dave's review has no markings on the label (see https://youtu.be/N_yHkrVYrBE?t=507) and various units from ebay (filtering by US only) that I looked at don't either.
It's 220V version for Chinese market on the video. Mine is for EU market, rated for 230V and has CE mark on it. If you take Hakko for Chinese market, there won't be UL mark as well.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 12:07:18 am by wraper »
 

Offline tkamiya

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2019, 12:56:58 am »
Gentlemen....

It is not really the mark that's important.  UL will guarantee some level of standard, but Chinese CE is pretty much meaningless.  There is no testing done.  It's just a claim.

For owners of Quick.  Please describe what kind of safety feature does it have?  If the handle falls off the cradle, does it shut down?  What does it do to prevent fire?  And one more thing...  Many, mine included keeps the fan on to cool it for a while in cradle.  For good period of time, it blows hot air at whatever happens to be in front of it.  Curtains, etc.  To me, blowing it into a defuser, reflector, bucket of ice, etc, would be much safer.

As Dave demonstrated and I have experienced, some Chinese makes have failure mode that can end in fire - just for not putting in cradle right.  Cradle is not even well designed.  It is shallow and a grove must precisely match other grove.  (Mine slipped off)  To me, this is not a good safe design.

I trust UL and ETL, and whatever German one was....  I put no weight in CE.  (not the EU version of it, Chinese version of it)
 

Online wraper

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Re: Looking for a good and SAFE hot air gun
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2019, 01:13:33 am »
For owners of Quick.  Please describe what kind of safety feature does it have?  If the handle falls off the cradle, does it shut down?  What does it do to prevent fire?  And one more thing...  Many, mine included keeps the fan on to cool it for a while in cradle.  For good period of time, it blows hot air at whatever happens to be in front of it.  Curtains, etc.  To me, blowing it into a defuser, reflector, bucket of ice, etc, would be much safer.
No station will shut down if handle falls off the stand. How it should know if fell off or you took it to do the job? FWIW stand of Quick won't melt, it's made from cast metal, not plastic.
The difference between Quick and cheap crap that it won't set your house on fire. Cheap stations don't have any thermal protection. If fan or triac fails, or MCU simply glitches, cheap stations self destruct in flames. Quick has thermal fuse inside the handle to prevent such scenario. Moreover many of cheap stations actually don't disconnect the heater from mains, even if it seems like there is a hard switch. Because of that they may set themselves on fire while you are away and are thinking that station is switched off.

https://youtu.be/XwJdYxe_HFQ

https://youtu.be/m5kzyUFb2Sg

https://youtu.be/tUFW5teeRBM
 


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