My Experiences Reflowing Videocards (so far 100% success rate)

[iamdarkyoshi]

I can leave it safely in the computer and use the computer's Intel HD graphics, no problems.
And I can install the driver while outputting generic VGA video through the card , not a problem, (still on VGA output after install before reboot), it is only when i reboot after installing the driver i get the blue screen. I then can boot in safe mode (again the card being in VGA generic mode) and disable or uninstall the driver.
Did not try installing the driver while on Intel HD graphics but i recall i cant do that because in the computer BIOS i have to set either onboard or PCI graphics to be used.

Can you set it to PCIe GPU and enable IGPU? This should let both run at once. Either way, something is wrong with the card. I would place my bets on a bad solder joint though. Try using NVFlash and flashing the latest manufacturer's BIOS, or get one from here: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/

See if you can use the IGPU and see if the PCIe GPU is seen by the device manager still

[Bud]

Nope, the computer did not allow run concurrently onboard and PCI graphics.
I switched back to using the card and measured the current. The board has two +12V rails. Did not notice excess power consumption. In VGA mode it just eats 1.2A+0.12A, and when the driver kicks in, right before blue screen 2.1A+0.3A. Anyway, i decided to double check the local voltage regulators. I pulled the card out and will try to power it from a bench power supply and check voltages. There seems to be 5 switching and a couple linear regulators on the card. Also just for the heck of it inspected the card under the microscope, found nothing worrying.

[gnasirator]

Oh yes, the card has taken a lot of abuse from my teen son, several hours a day for 4 years in a row, Steam games and stuff, you can imagine. I think it did pretty well. It is an EVGA brand, Nvidia GPU.
I think i will try measuring the current consumption for any abnormal behaviour before going for a reflow. When i get the blue screen i can hear the HDD clicking, not sure if that is because the card may be short circuiting  the power bus when the driver kicks in, in which case may be a problem with one of the onboard power regulators.

Doesn't EVGA have lifetime warranty? I would get the card replaced!

[Bud]

I do not know, i'll check.

[Stori]

I'll throw in this youtube video:


Is that a proper reflow? The guy uses a cheap chinese infrared reflow station designed just for that purpose.

[Rasz]

I'll throw in this youtube video:


Is that a proper reflow? The guy uses a cheap chinese infrared reflow station designed just for that purpose.

>"I did at least 1600 this "type of repairs" on HP laptops and Im confideblablabla...98% success rate"

sure, hp dv6000, yeah, 98%!!1
typical cargo cult "I heat it up and it works ergo I fixed it case closed"
I bet people paid him for all those "repairs"

[Bud]

OK, I got my GTX460 working... 

The voltage regulators seemed to be OK so I moved to the GPU. I decided to try Louis Rossmann's advice and burned the chip at 120 C for 10 min. I do not have an preheater so I used a coffee warmer as the hot plate. That preheated the GPU to about 60C (measured at the package top) from the bottom then I used my hot air station to heat it from above for 10 min and monitored the package temperature with the Fluke meter. Then let it cool down naturally. Put it in the computer and -Bang!- it worked ! Pulled out one more time, applied thermal paste, installed the heatsink, put the card back and measured the current consumption.  With full GPU utilization the two +12V rails supplied 8.5A+2.6A, a total of about 11A, 133W or something.

Also took a peek with my Flir E4 thermal imager and found the major heat generation offender was actually the onboard power supplies, not the GPU, as can be seen in the attached pictures. The left picture is the card in idle mode (just Windows desktop), the right picture is the card under 99% GPU stress using a test utility. The power regulators are on the other side of the board under the fan cover and on full steam they heat the right side of the board right through to 80 C    while the GPU was almost 20  C cooler.

The card is not going to be used for games anymore, just for my Altium backup station, as such I do not expect the GPU to be stressed much, so hopefully the card will last for the next little while.

[Stori]

So the only way to fix a GPU properly in 99% of the cases is to replace it, is that correct?

[iamdarkyoshi]

OK, I got my GTX460 working... 

The voltage regulators seemed to be OK so I moved to the GPU. I decided to try Louis Rossmann's advice and burned the chip at 120 C for 10 min. I do not have an preheater so I used a coffee warmer as the hot plate. That preheated the GPU to about 60C (measured at the package top) from the bottom then I used my hot air station to heat it from above for 10 min and monitored the package temperature with the Fluke meter. Then let it cool down naturally. Put it in the computer and -Bang!- it worked ! Pulled out one more time, applied thermal paste, installed the heatsink, put the card back and measured the current consumption.  With full GPU utilization the two +12V rails supplied 8.5A+2.6A, a total of about 11A, 133W or something.

Also took a peek with my Flir E4 thermal imager and found the major heat generation offender was actually the onboard power supplies, not the GPU, as can be seen in the attached pictures. The left picture is the card in idle mode (just Windows desktop), the right picture is the card under 99% GPU stress using a test utility. The power regulators are on the other side of the board under the fan cover and on full steam they heat the right side of the board right through to 80 C    while the GPU was almost 20  C cooler.

The card is not going to be used for games anymore, just for my Altium backup station, as such I do not expect the GPU to be stressed much, so hopefully the card will last for the next little while.

Nice work! It will be interesting to see how long it lasts! Those fermi cards do run warm!

So the only way to fix a GPU properly in 99% of the cases is to replace it, is that correct?

Unfortunately, pretty much.

[Stori]

What about the VRAM? Is the whole problem equivalent for the VRAM?

[iamdarkyoshi]

What about the VRAM? Is the whole problem equivalent for the VRAM?

I have never seen the videoram have solder issues like the GPU die had, but it is not out of the realm of possibility...

[Bud]

Seems the famous xbox "towel trick" years ago may have used same "repair" mechanism as baking the GPU at low temp for 10-15 min. The trick involved wrapping the inoperable Xbox console in a towel and letting it sit for 10 min. Certainly that did not melt solder, but could raise the chip temperature inside console above a 100 degree. Google for "xbox towel trick" for posts/videos.

[iamdarkyoshi]

Seems the famous xbox "towel trick" years ago may have used same "repair" mechanism as baking the GPU at low temp for 10-15 min. The trick involved wrapping the inoperable Xbox console in a towel and letting it sit for 10 min. Certainly that did not melt solder, but could raise the chip temperature inside console above a 100 degree. Google for "xbox towel trick" for posts/videos.

I have heard of that, pretty cringe-worthy 

[crispy_tofu]

...

[Rasz]

...

yay, repair tips from a guy who never even touched soldering iron, and uses good old cargo cult method of 'its broken, lets cook it' 

[iamdarkyoshi]

...
-snip-

yay, repair tips from a guy who never even touched soldering iron, and uses good old cargo cult method of 'its broken, lets cook it' 

...
-snip-

Yes, I also watch LTT
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/552920-vessel-spoilers-psa-on-reflowing-videocards/

[nogood]

...

yay, repair tips from a guy who never even touched soldering iron, and uses good old cargo cult method of 'its broken, lets cook it' 

After a few videos from that channel I am pretty convinced, that most of what they do is crap like that.
The "omg-our-quatripple-ssd-non-mirrored-raid-is-not-getting-detected"-video makes me think that guy is full of it, or they think their viewers are that stupid.

Back to topic:
Even if you can get half a year out of a "dead" video card it may be worth it. My only experience so far with that method was telling my brother to just try it with his notebook (crappy LG 17" pos with bad cooling) and it works to this day I think, but yeah only one is not enough for good statistics.
If your professional image doesn't ride on it, why not.

[Stori]

Just wanted to post that video but crispy_tofu was faster than me
here is Louis Rossmanns response to that video (headphone users be warned audio is kinda crappy and loud):

[Fraser]

I just bought a Dell AIO 2205 motherboard for spare parts. It came from a computer repair centre as 'spares or repair' so I was expecting a pretty stuffed motherboard if they could not repair it.

I had to laugh when it arrived....... I now know exactly how Louis feels........

The motherboard has an intermittent video fault. The Northbridge is responsible for producing video on this AMD chipset and runs hot. As it is a flip chip, it would appear that maybe it has the bump issue or something else is intermittent on the PCB. I will never know though as some brainiac has heat gunned the Northbridge and also tried to apply more downward force to it via the heatsink screws. The brainiac obviously did not realise that tightening the heatsink screws does nothing as its a sprung system and the springs apply the pressure. Oh, he or she did manage to sheer off two of the PCB heatsink mounting threaded inserts in the process though. The board is total scrap as a result of this abuse.

Happily I only wanted it for some parts that have not been 'attacked'. Namely the BIOS, two multi-voltage rail generation chips and the system management IC. For £9 I am not complaining but it is further evidence that indiscriminate use of heat guns and daft 'magic' solutions can be very destructive.

I can understand Louis kicking off about this but sadly some people will never listen when they think that there is a cheap fix. Many amateur repairers cannot   fit a new BGA chip, so for them it is just a case of getting paid for a 'repair' vs returning the computer to the customer with no payment. I am with Louis on this one though. Users can abuse their computer motherboards, that is their right....... Bona Fide repair techs who are charging for their work should do the job properly and replace the GPU or whatever other component that is causing the problem.

Fraser

[Bud]

Louis should learn to manage his anger. It will get him in trouble one day if he won't.

[Fraser]

Having watched many of his videos I can say that, for the most part, Louis is calm and provides excellent commentary. Now and then he talks about a topic very dear to him, such as poor repair industry  practices. Yes he gets a little over emotional in his delivery on such topics, but then so does Dave. Remember the PicKit 3 video Dave did. It is not unusual for people who believe strongly about a subject to get a little carried away...... Especially when making a You Tube video.

When you cut through the emotive stuff, the comments that Louis makes are valid. I did some research on flip chip design and the 'bump' contacts are a weak point. In production heat and compression is used to form the connections via conductive polymer, so I can see why a temporary fix results from reheating. Not a great long life design for a hot GPU.

I watched the video that Louis was so annoyed about........ My opinion of the what I saw...... A bunch of clowns messing with stuff they do not understand. They were just copying someone else's instructions without doing any research into what was being attempted or achieved. In doing so they are just spreading misinformation.

Fraser

[iamdarkyoshi]

Having watched many of his videos I can say that, for the most part, Louis is calm and provides excellent commentary. Now and then he talks about a topic very dear to him, such as poor repair industry  practices. Yes he gets a little over emotional in his delivery on such topics, but then so does Dave. Remember the PicKit 3 video Dave did. It is not unusual for people who believe strongly about a subject to get a little carried away...... Especially when making a You Tube video.

When you cut through the emotive stuff, the comments that Louis makes are valid. I did some research on flip chip design and the 'bump' contacts are a weak point in the design. In production heat and compression is used to form the connections via conductive polymer, so I can see why a temporary fix results from reheating. Not a great long life design for a hot GPU.

I watched the video that Louis was so annoyed about........ My opinion of the what I saw...... A bunch of clowns messing with stuff they do not understand. They were just copying someone else's instructions without doing any research into what was being attempted or achieved. In doing so they are just spreading misinformation.

Fraser

I agree here. I am a LTT nerd with over 7K posts on their forums, and I made a post about this discussion here, I should probably link it in my signature over there.

[all_repair]

When you cut through the emotive stuff, the comments that Louis makes are valid. I did some research on flip chip design and the 'bump' contacts are a weak point. In production heat and compression is used to form the connections via conductive polymer, so I can see why a temporary fix results from reheating. Not a great long life design for a hot GPU.

Is GPU using flip chip?  Or just BGA?  I can't comment on Loius repair comments as every case may be different.  From what I seen on repair video made by the China repairmen, the BGA chip needs to be reballed with lead-based ball, and then resolder.  If the bond-wires are inside the ceramic, or plastic packaging, these wires should not be the weakest links.

[Rasz]

From what I seen on repair video made by the China repairmen, the BGA chip needs to be reballed with lead-based ball, and then resolder.  If the bond-wires are inside the ceramic, or plastic packaging, these wires should not be the weakest links.

 

and the myth continues, amazing

[Fraser]

@all_repair,

My comment relates to flip chip designs. These are what Louis is talking about. The fully encapsulated ceramic and plastic case formats do not use the same bump technology (afaik).

As for repairing a BGA chip through re-balling it....... at hat is only the solution if it has in fact got some form of solder failure situation and not just an internal fault or associated component failure.

I think Louis has explained this in his previous videos on the topic. From what I have seen, Louis is ticked off with people automatically reaching for some form of hot air gun, IR heater, or oven, before investigating the most likely cause of the failure, and taking appropriate action from a position of knowledge rather than assumption. I can relate to that.

I stated, I have no issue with someone cooking their own PCB but I do take a dim view of someone calling them self a component level repair technician blasting chips with heat in the hope of a quick fix and fast buck. As Louis says, it does the industry no good to have such cowboy practices prevalent within it.

Fraser