Author Topic: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence  (Read 2663 times)

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Offline Armadillo

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2019, 02:47:03 pm »
 :-+ :-+
Great Video, Good Start;

Can you next time put the microphone closure, too soft, can't hear clearly.

Looks like a E I laminated core, Yes?

You miss the I block ?
 

Offline gg64

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2019, 05:40:44 pm »
It is just a E block, I am working on the new video (tear down).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:00:46 am by gg64 »
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2019, 08:21:00 pm »
Hi,

Ok, I'll eagerly wait for the tear down VIDEO.

By the Way;

The magnetic path must be closed, either EI core or EE core or simple rod ferrite.
See attached;

Then better use the tear down core. More reliable, surely.   :D
 

Offline gg64

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2019, 11:51:40 pm »
Ok, I am rendering the video.

I spend 3 hours figuring out why I got a crispy sound/pop that was mainly because my usb sound card is getting satured.

I clean the sound with a sound gate/low pass and high pass. :)

It is only in French for now. I might do a voice over in a bit.

EDIT: I am currently uploading it would available here:

https://youtu.be/fNSP_znZyLs
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 12:50:54 am by gg64 »
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2019, 06:52:49 am »
Hey; thanks for the video, seems to be freezed for very long time there.  :D

A look at the size of the wire gauge, it's NOT going to do 3 joules. Is it from the original 3 joules pryat unit?
But nevertheless even 1 joules can play a good thick spark.
If the magnetic flux path is not closed with a correct energy air gap, its going to be very difficult.  :(
 

Offline gg64

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2019, 09:28:22 am »
hey, so I scanned one full layer to count the number of turns.

Per layer 7*9 + 3 turns for this layer, times 8 layers for the secondary (this layer is labeled 3 of out 8 BTW).

528 turns on the secondary.

edit is coming for the primary.

EDIT: 5*9+5 times 1 for the primary, 50 turns on the primary.

I need to check if the turns are somewhat consistant on the secondary former layers.

EDIT2: On the secondary the wire diameter is about 0.27mm (I took about 5wires side by side). (With one I can measure 0.30mm down to 0.22mm)

It is probably 0.25mm (tarnish included).

Now for the primary, in the next edit.

EDIT3: the wire diameter for the primary is 0.68mm (0.62mm when I press hard on the caliper with 4 wires)

For the primary, it is probably 0.3mm for the wire diameter.
And 0.68mm for the secondary (it seems that my digital caliper is 0.04mm loose when I am pressing hard)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:00:28 am by gg64 »
 

Offline gg64

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2019, 09:57:41 am »
Hey, so using this:
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tools/coil-inductance-calculator/

with a Relative Permeability of 640 (assume ferroxcube)

I am getting 0.113H for the primary (50; 29.3 'equivalent' circle diameter; 0.68; 640)

I am getting 15.2H for the secondary (528;29.3 'equivalent' circle diameter; 0.3; 640)

But those numbers are through the roof to my opinion, but since I am novice.

And the simulation argh_too_long.PNG is showing a dangerous behavior (too long for a pulse) to my opinion.

I would like to know what kind of value I could assume for a laminated core.

But if I am using 1 for the Relative Permeability, i am getting:

176┬ÁH, 23.8mH

And the simulation look like looks_ok.PNG


Look likes I need to do a lot of reading. :)
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2019, 12:36:01 pm »
Just too many cores and I am getting a bit of confused over the period of this subject really.  :-//

I thought you are unwinding and rebuilding the transformer? Normally just follow exactly.
If you want to deviate, you will have to impulse test the core to verify the knee and saturation point, to extract the core properties of the "X" core you will use.
So, the best is don't deviate.

Alternatively if you plan to get new cores from ferrocube for example, they have many types of ferrite cores, size and forms and published technical datas available for you to use in your calculation.
But, Academic and Practical are 2 different stories altogether, but ultimately you will need test instruments to verify your build. This is a deep science you are delving into. Only the courageous dare venture.
But I think it will take times as you build up your equipment to verify and experiment with this deep but certainly rewarding subject.

I am not verse with the magnetic software and can't be of much help in there about.
But your sim looks wonderful though.   :D

 

Offline gg64

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Re: Needs some pieces of advice on how to diagnose an electric fence
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2019, 09:48:32 pm »
Hey, I will rewind the former stock pulse tranformer.

I might tried to do another spare with my ee65 core I bought on ebay. :)

Here is the math (for me, to remember the day I need it again):


Measurement of the former stock pulse tranformer:
35.1 thickness of the E + primary layer
34.27 minimal thickness of the E + primary layer

about 47.19mm maximum

7*9+3=66 turns per layer

Since the
(35.1*4)*66=9266.4mm for the first layer

Low estimate:
If we approximate for a layer with 35mm to 42mm for the last
( 42(42+1)/2 - 34(34+1)/2 ) * 4(width of a square) * 66(turns per layer)

0.5*(42*43-34*35) * 4 * 66
2* (1806 - 1190) * 66 = 78540mm

Medium estimate:
(35+37+39+41 +43+45+47+49) * 4 * 66

(152+184) * 4 * 66 = 88704mm


I still need to work out the taping material (I lost the info...   ::)).

EDIT:
22AWG 0.63mm for the primary
and
29AWG 0.28mm for the secondary
should do.

EDIT2:
For the primary:

50turns *35(width) * 4(square) = 7000mm

Meaning those would do the job just fine: :)
https://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7790700/
https://fr.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7790716/

« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 09:55:02 pm by gg64 »
 


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