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Electronics => Repair => Topic started by: hp3310a on June 18, 2026, 07:24:16 pm

Title: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: hp3310a on June 18, 2026, 07:24:16 pm
Not a repair question but I don't know where else to put this:

I'm was planning to exchange the main caps in the PSU of my Agilent 16702B logic analyzer. I ordered new Rubycon HXK (220µF/450V)which are 5mm smaller in diameter than the originals (20x50mm instead of 25x50mm). That should improve air flow in the pretty cramped switch mode PSU considerably (attaching a picture with the top cover removed and one of the main PCB).

The new caps arrived and to my surprise, the new caps have a capacitance of -18% nominal. That's almost out of spec and also 8% lower than the existing ones.

Question is, should I use them anyway? Or order new ones somewhere else (these are from Digikey) and hope they will be better?
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: nonius_ on June 18, 2026, 08:02:56 pm
Just had a look at the datasheet of those capacitors and the capacity tolerance is +/- 20%, so -18% is within tolerance. (and that's also assuming that your measurement device tested at 120Hz....)

For the primary buffer-electrolytics in a SMPS the slightly lower capacitance  is not an issue at all.

Most circuits aren't very critical or demanding w.r.t. tight tolerances of capacity. Capacity is very rarely a problem with electrolytics, you can often get away with much less or more capacitance in most applications (time-sensitive applications excepted).

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should I use them anyway?

Myself, I'd have absolutely no qualms whatsover using them.

Were the original capacitors bad?  Only problem I can think of is ESR, but for THOSE capacitors (primary/high voltage section buffer electrolytics) ESR is rarely a problem; it's usually the secondary side, where currents are much larger, that capacitors go bad because of overheating/high ESR.

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I'm was planning to exchange the main caps in the PSU

You mention it's not a repair; then why are you replacing those capacitors?
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: hp3310a on June 18, 2026, 08:14:45 pm
Thanks for the response!

The original fans are intolerably loud (of the 5 fans in the unit, these are the loudest because smallest), and they need to be replaced by some with about 20% less air-volume. I'm exchanging the capacitors because they improve air-flow.

I measured at 120Hz and the ESR of the new capacitors is about 1/3 lower than the originals.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: floobydust on June 18, 2026, 08:38:32 pm
Don't forget to replace the Rifa caps!

I order primary electrolytic caps +20% in order to get the original value  :P
I think they know exactly how to manufacture electrolytic caps to -19% nowadays. The +80%/-20% tolerance spec. dates back to the 1940's I think.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: Gyro on June 18, 2026, 09:24:34 pm
Don't forget to replace the Rifa caps!
...

Yes, that Rifa MP Y cap is starting to show cracking. The only visible X cap looks like an MKP but they have a habit of hiding.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: nonius_ on June 18, 2026, 09:49:04 pm
I should've mentioned that RIFA-capacitor! Glad others caught it....

Keep in mind that there may also be a paper capacitor in the power-entry/fuseholder/netfilter combination, if present in your machine. In my HP54504a it recently spilled its guts, leaving a nice mark on the wall behind it as it ejaculated its juices through the tiny gap of the powerswitch. Took a while for the stench to go away....

Title: T
Post by: ME on June 19, 2026, 12:13:28 am
It may cut the noise down if you declagged the fan blades , They look filthy!.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: hp3310a on June 19, 2026, 04:02:25 am
Don't forget to replace the Rifa caps!

Those were the first ones to go and the primary reason for taking the PSU apart. There are 3 RIFA Y2 caps, one with 4.7nF and two with 15nF, they were all nicely cracked. The X2 is a WIMA I think (the big blue one to the left), can't read the markings.

I think they know exactly how to manufacture electrolytic caps to -19% nowadays.

Yes, I find that highly suspicious, too. That can't be a coincidence.

Keep in mind that there may also be a paper capacitor in the power-entry/fuseholder/netfilter combination

I was planning to, it is not a Schaeffer though, I think.

It may cut the noise down if you declagged the fan blades , They look filthy!.

They are! Those will be replaced by new Sanyo 9S silent fans. The noise level is intolerable and the bearings are shot.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: mariush on June 19, 2026, 05:40:10 am
Hopefully when you say ordered , you mean you ordered it from a proper distributor of electronic components like Digikey, Newark/Farnell, Mouser etc and not Amazon or eBay ... those can be fakes (in the sense that they could use lower capacitance models and put a new sleeve on them).

Some multimeters have problems measuring high voltage capacitors, so a value lower by 18% could be fine. You also need to account for the meter's accuracy itself, which could be up to +/- 3-5%
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: ondraN on June 19, 2026, 11:46:10 am
Try connecting the capacitors to their rated voltage for a while, then discharge them and measure them. If electrolytic capacitors are stored for a long time, they usually show less capacitance. That is my own observation.
Title: Re: New Rubycon capacitor almost -20% under nominal, use anyway (in a 16702B PSU)?
Post by: hp3310a on June 20, 2026, 06:05:48 pm
It turned out the big blue one was also a RIFA (220nF X2), not the highly volatile kind, but I don't trust the brand.

The PSU is in one piece again and working (tested stand alone, producing correct voltages and fans are running). Attached a comparison between old and new, that should give good airflow.