EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Repair => Topic started by: RK_aus_S on November 01, 2022, 02:57:20 pm
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Hallo together
I was asked by my dentist if I could help him fix his Zeiss "MagEye Light" LED headlamp https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/50874096/eyemag-light-illuminate-the-details-optronik (https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/50874096/eyemag-light-illuminate-the-details-optronik). The cable has a break near the LED and needs to be replaced. This LED light cost an unbelievable EUR 1500.00 new - and the Zeiss support can be payed extremely well for any type of repair.
My problem; the LED light cannot be opened. It seems either pressed, glued, welded or something similar - please see pictures. The manufacturer probably has no interest in these devices being opened by "unofficial" sites.
I inserted a fine pry into the gap once, hoping the case would snap open. But this thing is hard as a nut. This will only damage the case.
Does anyone have any clever ideas on how to go about something like this? Of course, I could simply solder on the replacement cable without opening the case, but it doesn't look really professional afterwards.
Regards
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They clearly don't want to you to find out that there is only $5 worth of electronics inside...
What is the case made of? I might protect it with a cloth and then try to distort the case by gently squeezing it in a vise. If it sits on the dentist's head I doubt it is die cast, likely lightweight plastic, so perhaps this would work. I might also drip acetone around the seam to try and soften any adhesive or the plastic itself. But sooner or later it's not going to look like a new one.
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I would say negative to acetone. If it is not welded, then it would be. A stiff guitar pick is great for snap closures and doesn't tend to mar the base plastic much. If you get any spreading of the seam at all,then it is not welded.
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Heat with hot air and start prying. This is metal base and not plastic right?
If the lens is acrylic or polycarbonate the acetone will damage it. Although those lenses are fairly cheap, if its a standard one.
Another option is cut the cable and hope the break is far enough back that you have space to solder on leads.
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Dentist? Ask him to x-ray it.
Also, I think the lens may unscrew.
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Thank you everyone so far for your advice.
Yes, they also have good reason to worry if someone sees these "valuable" inner workings... :o
This case is definitely made of plastic. I'm not an expert in plastics, but the gap at the rear end clearly shows that someone has tried to open the case before, there are clear signs of a lever (probably a screwdriver) visible.
- Warmth: went through my head too. I'll try it out, still have some respect
- Guitar Pick: I tried it; no chance
- Liquids: I have too much respect to break something with liquids
- Unscrew the lens: I just tried it, but it doesn't work. No way to apply enough force to the lens without scratching it
- Cut the cable and put on a new cable: this is my last option when all else has failed
- X-raying: interesting idea! I will submit the proposal to the dentist.
Will now contact Zeiss, maybe they are much more cooperative than I fear. Will report back...
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Reason for high price is much simpler. Medical devices need to be qualified and the cost you pay is mostly for qualification, development, tools etc., since only "few" devices are sold.
From the picture it seems to have the cap on the rear end. I will expect that it will be filled with epoxy to have good IP rating since the water is used in dentistry. I think that cutting the cable will be the easiest option.
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When I need to open something that's glued together like a power brick or laptop battery, I take a heavy, dull knife and put it in the gap between the pieces. Then I rap it with a hammer. This concentrates the force in the line between the pieces. Even if the plastic breaks, because the break is in the gap between the pieces, it doesn't mar the surface. Move around the unit, maybe two or three times. At first, it seems like nothing is happening, but eventually, something - either the plastic or the glue - will start to break. YMMV.
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+1 for X-raying. Plastic will be transparent enough and new panoramic x-ray machine will give you locations where you need to pry it to open.
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Can it be assumed that X-ray doses for teeth are not strong enough to damage the electronics inside?
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Complex electronics like mobile phones are inspected regularly with far stronger x-ray machines. That is only way to find cracked solder ball under processor or memory chip.
In LED light there is nothing that can be sensitive to x-ray.
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Can it be assumed that X-ray doses for teeth are not strong enough to damage the electronics inside?
No worries there.
I have used dental x-ray machines for many electronics and it never damaged anything.
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Do I see a sticker in the hinge recess? Check underneath it for a screw.
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Bonus idea: Xray the cable as well - the defect might be visibe and therefor easy to determine the location. Maybe then cutting open the wire and solder the break; heat shrinking the cable afterwards with a white sleeve might make it as good as new.
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Did you pry at the hinge already?
Maybe its snapped together there...
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OK, just for fun..... Your DENTIST can very easily afford another LED headlamp. After all, YOU are being bent over every time you just SIT in that chair. Unless he's willing to trade you some dental work for your time, WHY???? (I actually had such an arrangement with a Doctor once)
But yes, that is probably epoxied together. X-ray is a good idea!
Carry on. I'll be curious what's inside it if you succeed. :-+
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Wow, thank you so much for this outstanding support, I hardly expected it.
Do I see a sticker in the hinge recess? Check underneath it for a screw.
Good idea, but no, there is no screw underneth the sticker - I just checked this.
Bonus idea: Xray the cable as well - the defect might be visibe and therefor easy to determine the location. Maybe then cutting open the wire and solder the break; heat shrinking the cable afterwards with a white sleeve might make it as good as new.
Good idea, will do this!
Did you pry at the hinge already?
Maybe its snapped together there...
Good idea as well, but this I've already checked. Unfortunatley the answer is no.
OK, just for fun..... Your DENTIST can very easily afford another LED headlamp. ...
You are probably right. But my dentist has quite fair prices (as far as one can say such about a doctor... ::) )
He confronted me with some examples of his invoices he had to pay for the smallest repairs already. Even we speak about medical devices, I really was shocked. I got the impression that he was being ripped off because for being a dentist. But yes, if I prove myself, in the future he might let me sit in his dental seat free of charge in return. But that's not the reason I will help him, it's my little company that relies on just such jobs.
For sure, I will keep you all updated. :)
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That housing is definitely a two piece affair and splits along the line where the wire enters the housing. I'm almost sure that it has pressure points similar to those found on TV remotes. Looking at the hinge mounting, and the small size of the light itself, I wouldn't be surprised that the pressure point is on the opposite side of the mounting hinge location and that the housing flips open. X-ray may show it or them. If nothing else succeeds, I would resort to a Dremel tool and a very thin cutting wheel and cut along that line. The housing could always be glued back together with a glue that can be dissolved with a solvent in the future if need be.
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That housing is definitely a two piece affair and splits along the line where the wire enters the housing. I'm almost sure that it has pressure points similar to those found on TV remotes. Looking at the hinge mounting, and the small size of the light itself, I wouldn't be surprised that the pressure point is on the opposite side of the mounting hinge location and that the housing flips open. X-ray may show it or them. Giving the housing a good squeeze on the two sides 90 deg. from the mounting hinge location may be enough to crack it open. If nothing else succeeds, I would resort to a Dremel tool and a very thin cutting wheel and cut along that line. The housing could always be glued back together with a glue that can be dissolved with a solvent in the future if need be.
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Give it a good squeeze in the red indicated area on both sides
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Dentist? Ask him to x-ray it.
Genius.
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- Unscrew the lens: I just tried it, but it doesn't work. No way to apply enough force to the lens without scratching it
Use something with a lot of friction but soft, like a rubber mat. If my guess about it being assembled from the front is correct, then the two pieces of the housing may be clamped together as strain relief for the cable, with screws that also hold the LED in place, and are hidden behind the reflector and lens that holds the reflector in place. If the construction is similar to other LED lamps, the lens may be pressed/glued in.
Either way, an x-ray should reveal useful information.
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Dentist? Ask hiart m to x-ray it.
That's exactly what I was going to suggest. It can be very helpful to xray something you're trying to get into. Hidden fasteners will be clearly visible, and you can also see things you want to be careful not to hit if you start prying or cutting.
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After several phone calls, I received information from Zeiss Medical that no service documents would be made available to me because "...repairs are only carried out by certified Zeiss personnel". That's about the kind of cooperation I expected. Of course, I will recommend the dentist to include this experience in a future choice of a manufacturer or purchases. :o
I have now agreed with the dentist and the current state of affairs is that I cut the cable and put on a new cable. That seems to us to be the best compromise. Even if the X-ray showed how to open the lamp, it probably couldn't be done without visible traces on the lamp. We are therefore refraining from this method (for the time being).
I feel sorry for everyone who would like to know what is so valuable in this headlamp.
Thanks again to all and regards.
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have decent wide chisel, file it at one side only to be rather fine sharp blade and use it as prying to a thinnest joint line found
goody here is its back can be hammered to force break a joint line
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Can it be assumed that X-ray doses for teeth are not strong enough to damage the electronics inside?
No worries there.
I have used dental x-ray machines for many electronics and it never damaged anything.
I have used much more powerful xray machines on electronics many times and have never damaged anything. If you went REALLY overboard I suppose you could damage or at least erase EPROMs but nothing used for imaging is going to do that.
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After several phone calls, I received information from Zeiss Medical that no service documents would be made available to me because "...repairs are only carried out by certified Zeiss personnel". That's about the kind of cooperation I expected. Of course, I will recommend the dentist to include this experience in a future choice of a manufacturer or purchases. :o
I have now agreed with the dentist and the current state of affairs is that I cut the cable and put on a new cable. That seems to us to be the best compromise. Even if the X-ray showed how to open the lamp, it probably couldn't be done without visible traces on the lamp. We are therefore refraining from this method (for the time being).
I feel sorry for everyone who would like to know what is so valuable in this headlamp.
Thanks again to all and regards.
What happens if you cut off the cable and find out that it's broken right where it enters the housing, which is usually the case where most cables have breaks ? You will still end up having to open it. I would suggest using needle point test leads and try to find where the cable break is first.
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After several phone calls, I received information from Zeiss Medical that no service documents would be made available to me because "...repairs are only carried out by certified Zeiss personnel". That's about the kind of cooperation I expected. Of course, I will recommend the dentist to include this experience in a future choice of a manufacturer or purchases. :o
I have now agreed with the dentist and the current state of affairs is that I cut the cable and put on a new cable. That seems to us to be the best compromise. Even if the X-ray showed how to open the lamp, it probably couldn't be done without visible traces on the lamp. We are therefore refraining from this method (for the time being).
I feel sorry for everyone who would like to know what is so valuable in this headlamp.
Thanks again to all and regards.
What happens if you cut off the cable and find out that it's broken right where it enters the housing, which is usually the case where most cables have breaks ? You will still end up having to open it. I would suggest using needle point test leads and try to find where the cable break is first.
It has a ~1cm strain relief, which is why I suggested cutting the cable.
Its going to be tight but, its almost always going to be broken at the edge of that strain relief, which can be cut off and wires soldered.
Good idea with the needle points though, in case the break is on the other end.
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does he need it to look expensive or work? I say saw it open, use epoxy to close back, you can paint it afterwards to make it look pretty ;-)
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does he need it to look expensive or work? I say saw it open, use epoxy to close back, you can paint it afterwards to make it look pretty ;-)
I'd say dentists really don't like hacked together medical devices in clients sight.
Plus, there even might be serious legal issues. The CE conformity and classification as medical device will be lost, when either hacked open or the wiring is redone.
Just imagine, the dentist is doing some serious chirurgical stuff or work that requires difficult work done in a few seconds (because otherwise the glue has hardened before finisching the job) - and the hacked lamp drops out. This might come unhandy if insurance claims are raised. It's one thing to experience a sudden failure - but another to intentionally work with a previously failed device tampered around with.
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does he need it to look expensive or work? I say saw it open, use epoxy to close back, you can paint it afterwards to make it look pretty ;-)
I'd say dentists really don't like hacked together medical devices in clients sight.
Plus, there even might be serious legal issues. The CE conformity and classification as medical device will be lost, when either hacked open or the wiring is redone.
Just like car MOT is cancelled if you replace brake cable!
Just imagine, the dentist is doing some serious chirurgical stuff or work that requires difficult work done in a few seconds (because otherwise the glue has hardened before finisching the job) - and the hacked lamp drops out.
I imagine whoever was fixing it was bad at his job.
This might come unhandy if insurance claims are raised. It's one thing to experience a sudden failure - but another to intentionally work with a previously failed device tampered around with.
Repaired. External case is not the device, its just an enclosure.
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UK MOT might have different requirements, at least in Germany (and EU) critical parts for your (well, maybe not your, but my) car need to certified, if you have a pre-Brexit-car, you probably will find (E)-numbers all over it. Modifying those parts will void the certification, which leads - at least in Germany - to a loss of TUeV (which is a essential a MOT, but a bit stricter), which means you are not allowed to move your car on public roads and a loss of insurance.
I assume the requirements for medical devices are even stricter, and likely Swiss regulations are as tough as EU regulations.
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>medical devices
Dentist LCU? sure, but this is a flashlight. Even in crazy Germany you dont need TUV certified internal lights.
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>medical devices
Dentist LCU? sure, but this is a flashlight. Even in crazy Germany you dont need TUV certified internal lights.
Check the PDF in the very first post.
It's classified and certified as medical device, which has pretty strict regulations:
https://www.dimdi.de/dynamic/de/glossar/glossareintrag/Medical-Device-Regulation-MDR/ (https://www.dimdi.de/dynamic/de/glossar/glossareintrag/Medical-Device-Regulation-MDR/)
Btw. that's not a german oddity, it's EU (and former UK) law. I'm pretty certain UK ported this regulation over from EU.