Author Topic: Philips PM3217 Oscilloscope Repair (Read 5654 times)

mauroh · « **on:** July 31, 2019, 02:27:28 pm »

This was my first oscilloscope, it was stored in my basement for more than 10 years. I turned it on just to see if it was still working and got a nice explosion plus a terrible smoke coming out of it... let see what was the cause.
Enjoy my Itanglish...

Spoiler alert: Yes it was a RIFA capacitor

If you want to learn more about this topic watch EEVblog #1183:

See also this thread if you whant to restore and re-cap your oscilloscope:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/phillips-pm3217-scope-re-cap-howto/

Mauro

tggzzz · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2019, 02:51:58 pm »

Quote from: mauroh on July 31, 2019, 02:27:28 pm

This was my first oscilloscope, it was stored in my basement for more than 10 years. I turned it on just to see if it was still working and got a nice explosion plus a terrible smoke coming out of it... let see what was the cause.

Well, I'm not going to spend 9 minutes of my remaining life looking at a video which might or might not have anything interesting in it. (You can have my eyeballs for 15s, after that I need to know how something will benefit me

)

My bet: most likely a RIFA "delayed action smoke generator" capacitor, if not then an electrolytic.

mauroh · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2019, 03:25:56 pm »

You are totally right!! I edited the post adding the reason of tha fail so no one will waste time just to know that.
If someone will have the same issue, I hope this video will help to quickly find the solution and fix a beloved analog oscilloscope.
Mauro

tggzzz · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2019, 05:06:53 pm »

Quote from: mauroh on July 31, 2019, 03:25:56 pm

You are totally right!! I edited the post adding the reason of tha fail so no one will waste time just to know that.
If someone will have the same issue, I hope this video will help to quickly find the solution and fix a beloved analog oscilloscope.
Mauro

Good for you!

Video can't (yet) be indexed for search engines, so if you want someone to find and use your hard-won experience, you have to supply text describing what's in the video.

bd139 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2019, 06:24:36 pm »

Been there with a PM3217 already. Have a picture!

Watch out for the secondary Philips axial capacitors as they go short and bugger up the transformer. Also been there!

bd139 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2019, 06:36:01 pm »

Dammit this thread just meant I have another PM3217. Just searched on ebay and bought one just for nostalgic value

. They are great scopes.

Edit: Just to add, after watching your video, this was also my "very first (decent) oscilloscope". I managed to liberate one from the skip outside Cossor Electronics, here in the UK with probes and all sorts with it in the attached bag circa 1994. This replaced my old Telequipment, I think a D61 or S61 (can't remember which) I bought from a car boot sale. Back in 1999, due to a lack of interest in electronics I sold it on Yahoo Auctions for a trivial £25 which was immediately spent on the priorities of the hour which were basically alcohol and the female of the species (this got me into a lot of trouble and kids). Back in 2015 I bought another one for a trivial 10 GBP from a house clearance which cemented my re-entry into the electronics hobby. By far this is my favourite scope and as my post history will explain, that's a lot of scopes.

Really this is a post to say thanks for the memories

mauroh · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2019, 08:07:51 am »

Quote from: tggzzz on July 31, 2019, 05:06:53 pm

... you have to supply text describing what's in the video.

Added to the youtube video description.
Thank you

mauroh · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2019, 08:34:14 am »

Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2019, 06:36:01 pm

Dammit this thread just meant I have another PM3217. Just searched on ebay and bought one just for nostalgic value .
They are great scopes.... this was also my "very first (decent) oscilloscope". ... I sold it on Yahoo Auctions for a trivial £25 which was immediately spent on the priorities of the hour which were basically alcohol and the female of the species (this got me into a lot of trouble and kids).
Back in 2015 I bought another one ....

Really this is a post to say thanks for the memories

Oh Man you have a problem...

I so you are a TEA member, but it not working!!! I know it because I have the same issue ...

I was laughing so hard reading your post, felt sorry for your compulsive acquisition, but in the end I know that you will be happy with your "new" osclillofriend next to you.

Quote from: bd139 on July 31, 2019, 06:36:01 pm

Watch out for the secondary Philips axial capacitors as they go short and bugger up the transformer. Also been there!

If you mean this nice blue guys.... NO WAY, I will NOT re-cap my scope. NO! NO! NO!... Ok, I know I'll do it...

This picture is from another thread regarding the PM3217 re-cap.
I'll edit the first post adding the links of few other threads regarding the issues of this oscilloscope.

Thank you
Have a nice day
Mauro

bd139 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2019, 08:52:38 am »

If you think the TEA thread is about self-help then you're wrong

. It's more like having "alcoholics anonymous" meeting in the local bar

I may recap this one when it arrives. I had honestly forgotten how many of those horrible capacitors there are in the unit until you posted that. As mentioned before I had one go short in my last one and it took the transformer out. Fortunately I found a spare power supply board on ebay as someone had broken one for parts.

Here's the last one I had as discovered and after refurbishment:

mauroh · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2019, 09:20:30 am »

Quote from: bd139 on August 01, 2019, 08:52:38 am

If you think the TEA thread is about self-help then you're wrong . It's more like having "alcoholics anonymous" meeting in the local bar

So true

.

Nice job restoring your scope, it looks pristine!!

I see in the "as discovered" picture it is in XY mode...
This is the actual reason I took the scope out of the basement:
Some months ago I built a small Oscilloscope Clock circuit with an ESP32 and I would like to compare the results of my Rigol DS1104z against the Philips PM3217.
I know the PM3217 will win hands down, but it will also be helpful to improve the code of the Oscilloscope Clock, highlighting all the impefections in the drawing.

Mauro

BTW: This is the my Oscilloscope Clock thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esp32-oscilloscope-clock/

bd139 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2019, 09:37:24 am »

Quote from: mauroh on August 01, 2019, 09:20:30 am

Nice job restoring your scope, it looks pristine!!

I see in the "as discovered" picture it is in XY mode...

Yeah I noted that the person selling it thought it was broken and listed it as won't sweep but didn't notice the X-Y mode setting. Failing to mention that to him was why I got it so cheap

Quote from: mauroh on August 01, 2019, 09:20:30 am

Some months ago I built a small Oscilloscope Clock circuit with an ESP32 and I would like to compare the results of my Rigol DS1104z against the Philips PM3217.
I know the PM3217 will win hands down, but it will also be helpful to improve the code of the Oscilloscope Clock, highlighting all the impefections in the drawing.

Mauro

BTW: This is the my Oscilloscope Clock thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/esp32-oscilloscope-clock/

That's an excellent little project that. Nice work. I am impressed. I may have to put one together from your inspiration

The X-Y on the digital scopes is particularly horrible I find. The DS1054Z is up there with the worst. I actually bought a 20MHz Hameg a couple of weeks back just for X-Y mode for a project. I won't go too off topic on this thread, but there are some videos on my YT channel here dotted between amateur radio stuff on Tek/Hameg/Rigol scopes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyyi6JY_tNmznkAthVn68Kg/videos

mauroh · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2019, 12:10:11 pm »

Thank you for the kind words

Actually I'm not that disappointed by the XY performance of my Rigol DS1104z, I sow something better and something worst on other DSO.
Pretty much all the DSOs struggle with XY mode and you can improve a bit the results compromising something else.
On the Rigol I see that 2 important settings you can tweek to get better images, are Time base and Memory Depth.
In your video "Rigol DS1054Z X-Y mode sucks" you have Time base set to 5uS.... You need to adjust it untill you have more than one entire frame on screen (disable full-screen mode to verify that)
Memory Depth is set to Auto... Reduce it untill you can still capture enough points to store the entire frame and this will improve the drawing speed.

Hope this helps
Mauro

bd139 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2019, 12:24:20 pm »

That works for mostly static displays quite nicely but the thing I'm working on requires quite fast animation so you have to trade off the memory depth and persistence which is a balance that I just can't get right on that scope. Compare to a Tek for example:

Schematic for ref. Any opamp will do. I used LM358

mauroh · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2019, 02:52:34 pm »

I see!! Thank you for sharing the schematic.
Have a nice day
Mauro

bd139 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 03, 2019, 07:01:16 pm »

Just got my PM3217. Has some problems which are going to take time to resolve. Am going to recap it as well.

Any ideas what the main filter cap part replacement is. I couldn't find anything even close. Original is a Philips/BC 2222-050-57472

mauroh · « **Reply #15 on:** August 03, 2019, 11:45:04 pm »

Hi, glad you got the scope and I’ll look forward to se it working fine!!
Unfortunately I don’t have any suggestion for the capacitor, but the guy tha posted here might help...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/phillips-pm3217-scope-re-cap-howto/msg2056981/#msg2056981
He fully re-capped his PM3217 and I hope he can tell us what he have used.
Have a nice day
Mauro

BTW: In the meantime I made few tests with my Oscilloscope Clock on the PM3217 and it looks great!!

bd139 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 04, 2019, 09:19:18 am »

Thanks for the reply. I PM’ed him and he replied that he used a 2 pin cap and drilled new holes for it and than patched wires to the existing pads. I can’t bring myself to do that do I will design some adapter boards for it instead and send them off to JLCPCB. I’ve got the Mullard technical manual and data sheets for those capacitors so hopefully can come up with something decent.

Unfortunately my scope is quite heavily knackered in the attenuator department so I’m going to need another one to fix it. There was a repair bodge on the fine attenuator controls

. Also power supply is noisy and there’s some channel cross talk above spec so it needs a full recap.

Scope clock looks excellent there. Nice work

mauroh · « **Reply #17 on:** August 04, 2019, 09:14:39 pm »

Wow, so much work to do!! Hope the re-cap will solve most of the issues.
I wouldn’t drill my oscilloscope

a piece of double sided veroboard should do the job

Have a nice repair!!
Mauro

bd139 · « **Reply #18 on:** August 04, 2019, 09:34:28 pm »

I made an adapter in the end. Waiting for the 49 capacitors to arrive on Tuesday now

I'll do a separate refurb thread once I've completed it.

mauroh · « **Reply #19 on:** August 04, 2019, 10:46:10 pm »

Now we are talking!!! No specific design, no 3D printing, no shipping, just plain and simple ingenuity

bd139 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 04, 2019, 10:56:30 pm »

It evolved into that. It actually started with a Kicad design and JLCPCB quote. Then I realised it would take 2 to 3 weeks to get here and I’m impatient

. The Kicad design was printed out and glued to some FR4 and drilled and etched by hand.

EifX · « **Reply #21 on:** November 24, 2019, 08:42:51 pm »

Hi there,

Today I bought a PM3217 that needs some TLC.
Is there a list with all the caps that need to be replaced?
I read some posts on this forum but am unable to retrieve a list from them.

bd139 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 24, 2019, 08:46:40 pm »

Best bet is go through the service manual and pick them out. The service manual has a power supply section and parts list that is spot on.

EifX · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2019, 06:21:04 pm »

Hi bd139,

I was afraid of that

But still thanks for the reply.
Tomorrow will be the day to do this.

dazz1 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 22, 2022, 08:06:52 am »

Quote from: EifX on November 24, 2019, 08:42:51 pm

Hi there,

Today I bought a PM3217 that needs some TLC.
Is there a list with all the caps that need to be replaced?
I read some posts on this forum but am unable to retrieve a list from them.

I posted a BOM Cap list on this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/phillips-pm3217-scope-re-cap-howto/msg2056981/#msg2056981


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Author Topic: Philips PM3217 Oscilloscope Repair (Read 5654 times)

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