Author Topic: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline jujun

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Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« on: January 22, 2019, 11:23:11 am »
Hello,

I want to replace a broken crystal with a clock from a SI5351. The chip that is driven by this clock doesn't have a public available datasheet.
So I wonder, how to "simulate" a crystal from a SI5351 square wave   ?

Do you have any pointer on this ?

Thank you
J
 

Offline nsrmagazin

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 01:56:06 pm »
I think the only way tould be to test it or someone who was tested it(maybe something similar) to tell you.

Normallt it should be possible if they have the same frequency, duty cycle and voltage.
Hi all!
If you like the post, please press "thanks".
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 02:19:06 pm »
Crystal is so inexpensive to replace, why do you need to spend 10 times as much and efforts to delve into an area where you are not familiar with, if I may ask?
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 02:34:51 pm »
It depends on the waveform you're looking for do you need a sine wave?
Most crystal inputs will show as sinewaves because that's the way the quartz behaves. There's often a logic input and corresponding inverted output to drive the quartz.
Find which one is the input and most of the time it will perfectly accept an external square wave.

Is this because you have no idea on original frequency or maybe for versatile "overclocking" purposes?
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2019, 02:44:37 pm »
Crystal is so inexpensive to replace, why do you need to spend 10 times as much and efforts to delve into an area where you are not familiar with, if I may ask?

That very much depends on what the crystal is though, if it's not an off the shelf frequency then it can be far more expensive to get it made.

The Si5351 is under $1 in 1 off quantities and has NVRAM which can be programmed to output specific frequencies on start up or the OP could use a dirt cheap Arduino or bare ATMega chip for a total hardware cost of ~$2 using the off the shelf example sketches in the Si5351 Arduino library.

It's not possible to say if the output signal is going to be suitable for the OP's application without knowing more about it.
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 02:47:59 pm »
If you must have a sine output for something like a ham project maybe consider a DDS like the AD9858
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 03:31:27 pm »
Will you need a Surface Mount breakout PCB board and other Surface Mount peripherals to complete the board to be usable?
Will you need smd skills and smd tools to complete it?
Maybe before you promise others a Cloud Nine that you provide the complete BOM and $Cost to be in anyway close to believable.

$2....... Nah.....I don't believe.  You are talking about buying the bare breakout board? :-DD

[Edit: I read the datasheet and I just want to laugh. It needs a external crystal to operate, it needs 3.3V power supply, Signal Translation from 3.3 to 5V among others peripherals components to complete.]
So when I said, "If I may ask"..... I stand by my original inquiry as Perfectly Correct to ask before offering a solution to help.

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/Si5351A-I2C-25MHZ-Clock-Generator-Breakout-Board-8KHz-to-160MHz-for-Arduino-D9I2/123038197506?hash=item1ca5a5e702:g:8rEAAOSwrjhatbS7:rk:1:pf:0

Crystal is so inexpensive to replace, why do you need to spend 10 times as much and efforts to delve into an area where you are not familiar with, if I may ask?

That very much depends on what the crystal is though, if it's not an off the shelf frequency then it can be far more expensive to get it made.

The Si5351 is under $1 in 1 off quantities and has NVRAM which can be programmed to output specific frequencies on start up or the OP could use a dirt cheap Arduino or bare ATMega chip for a total hardware cost of ~$2 using the off the shelf example sketches in the Si5351 Arduino library.

It's not possible to say if the output signal is going to be suitable for the OP's application without knowing more about it.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 03:57:51 pm by Armadillo »
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 04:29:45 pm »
I heard that Merchants are trying to dump this kit...... not many found applications for it.

So I am not surprise, sometimes you know..... merchant "type" question can be found around to boost sales.     ;D
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 07:02:48 pm »
All prices, with the exception of the proto board, are from Mouser, I could probably find cheaper if I could be bothered.

Find your own damn part numbers as you're so rude.

Si5351 87p each in one off quantities
25MHz crystal 10p in one off quantities
ATtiny chip, 26p in one off quantities
3.3V LDO 9p in one off quantities.

SMD proto board 45p for a quick lash up (eBay, admittedly it's a one off price from a pack of ten)

A decoupling capacitor and a capacitor to block DC on the output(s), couple of pence each.

No need for level translation, the micro runs on 3.3V too and is only needed on start up.

All for a shade under $1.80 at today's exchange rate, I'll accept your apology graciously.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 07:10:52 pm »
You must be nuts to exclude all the delivery and packing as if one shop buy all.
And show us the proto board that can fit all the above.
How about the translation components.
Apology..... you are out of your mind!.   :-DD

[Edit: Provide the link to the 45p proto board].
add in the jumper cables and pins.

All prices, with the exception of the proto board, are from Mouser, I could probably find cheaper if I could be bothered.

Find your own damn part numbers as you're so rude.

Si5351 87p each in one off quantities
25MHz crystal 10p in one off quantities
ATtiny chip, 26p in one off quantities
3.3V LDO 9p in one off quantities.

SMD proto board 45p for a quick lash up (eBay, admittedly it's a one off price from a pack of ten)

A decoupling capacitor and a capacitor to block DC on the output(s), couple of pence each.

No need for level translation, the micro runs on 3.3V too and is only needed on start up.

All for a shade under $1.80 at today's exchange rate, I'll accept your apology graciously.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 07:20:34 pm by Armadillo »
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 07:19:03 pm »
I've already said, those prices are all from Mouser, one shop, except the proto board which is in a pack of ten from eBay with free delivery, if I could be bothered to go and search I feel certain I could find them all cheaper but I'm not wasting any more time on an idiot who can't accept he's wrong.


 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2019, 07:22:16 pm »
If you are unable to proof what you said, then I WANT YOU TO KNOW, DONT BELIEVE YOU!.
The tone of my speech are always tuned to the type of person I speak to.

I've already said, those prices are all from Mouser, one shop, except the proto board which is in a pack of ten from eBay with free delivery, if I could be bothered to go and search I feel certain I could find them all cheaper but I'm not wasting any more time on an idiot who can't accept he's wrong.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2019, 07:33:10 pm »
Oh btw, how much is the packing and handling fees does Mouser Charges?

Buy from ebay the completed kits is only ~ US$5.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2019, 07:46:56 pm »
So, an idiot who simply cannot "Add", and he thought that we are all like him.....  :-DD
I proofed my point and I waited enough and decided, I ain't going to waste my time on idiot.

Oh... I am still waiting for the 1 piece 45p smd proto board that can fit all the above....... Hahahahahahahaha  :-DD

I'm not wasting any more time on an idiot who can't accept he's wrong.
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2019, 08:10:11 pm »
If you are unable to proof what you said, then I WANT YOU TO KNOW, DONT BELIEVE YOU!.
The tone of my speech are always tuned to the type of person I speak to.

Without wanting to get to involved/political about this, may I say that I consider you as a very experienced person if you can tell the type of person you're speaking to over an internet forum. (See judging without knowing, I could be wrong too...)
Now, having said this I'm curious to the tone (tuning) I'll get in return, to help you phase-lock I'll add that I have severe mental illness so and won't be too shocked if I find the tuning inappropriate.  :-//
Incredible how a simple question can get thrown so easily into a quabble, it's about time the OP gave a little more info on his problem, it's all his fault for being so vague!
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2019, 08:19:15 pm »
@shakalnokturn;

I remembered you spent countless hours in the A10000001? board.... that you have shared with many others... that is greatly respected by me,  I remembered until now. Is the tone acceptable.?  ;D
I think its always perfectly alright to point out that something is not right especially when OP is a beginner.
Thanks. Cheers;
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2019, 08:47:54 pm »
@shakalnokturn;

I think you must be shocked that a deed can be remembered by others for so long, yeah? I think already for many years back, yes? hahahahahahaha

Is easy to tell actually whether someone really intended to help, or someone intended merely to BULL, or someone simply made a innocent mistake or provided a innocent response. You won't see me having issues with these innocence ones. Is not that difficult to tell really, especially expecting OP to build it for $2. Can you? Give me a break.....
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 09:05:55 pm »
Personal Attack begin at Reply #8...."your own damn part"....."you're so rude"..... and demand for "apology"....

Personal Attack is also at Reply #10....addressing member as "idiot".
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2019, 07:32:34 am »
Personal Attack begin at Reply #8...."your own damn part"....."you're so rude"..... and demand for "apology"....

Personal Attack is also at Reply #10....addressing member as "idiot".

You can talk. Why can't you learn to calm down, why do you have to go around being so damn aggressive. You are the common denominator in situations like this and you will be the one banned if you don't learn to behave!
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2019, 07:52:35 am »
With all due respect, may I know which part of the text you consider as damn aggressive. I am the one being attack here. Ask Dave if he rant technically. In this platform, as long as technical are being exchanged, I don't consider and I maintain that it is in no way aggressive. I don't need to baby sit and pretend nice guy to lick others lolly pop here because YOU simon is the moderator.

You are damn unfair. You come off as a denominator of being a bias if I may add.

The way you address this message to me openly is a clear evidence of taking side and unfair treatment towards member here. I will write a complain formerly to Dave.

You gain no respect from me Simon, bear that in mind. You tell me who started the personal attack.

GO AHEAD, DO IT.


Personal Attack begin at Reply #8...."your own damn part"....."you're so rude"..... and demand for "apology"....

Personal Attack is also at Reply #10....addressing member as "idiot".

You can talk. Why can't you learn to calm down, why do you have to go around being so damn aggressive. You are the common denominator in situations like this and you will be the one banned if you don't learn to behave!
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2019, 07:59:28 am »
I am talking historically and this is not the first time i have had to ask you to calm down. I understand english is not your first language and you have now hidden your country flag but you are abrupt and aggressive, you take any peceived challenge as a threat and respond aggressively. Feel free to complain to Dave, he also got the moderation report so I am sure will get to read this anyway. As for you having no respect for me I do not care for it but more for respect of other members who opinions you always insist on taking as a personal insult.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2019, 08:07:21 am »
You are taking yardstick to judge a person.
In such case, forever I am the criminal in your eyes.

That why you gain NO RESPECT from me. You are discriminating member here. Is mentioning hidden flag and my first language appropriate in this case?
As a moderator, you are REQUIRED to equally behave.

I have complained your poor judgement, bias, discriminating members and wholly UNPROFESSIONAL.

As you have said, "YOU DON'T CARE". That why I can say you are irresponsible as well as failed in your duty in fair moderating.

As requested by me, you FAILED, to substantiate your points. Do I need to say more.


I am talking historically and this is not the first time i have had to ask you to calm down. I understand english is not your first language and you have now hidden your country flag but you are abrupt and aggressive, you take any peceived challenge as a threat and respond aggressively. Feel free to complain to Dave, he also got the moderation report so I am sure will get to read this anyway. As for you having no respect for me I do not care for it but more for respect of other members who opinions you always insist on taking as a personal insult.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2019, 08:18:46 am »
Is mentioning hidden flag and my first language appropriate in this case?


It is very appropriate. I tend to not try and apply a standard yardstick and take into account individual circumstances. Plenty of people are not banned because I was willing to try and understand them in the context of not being a native english speaker or from the same culture as me. I avoid assuming that you are as you come across based on my cultural standard because I know you are not from the same place as me and our societies have different attitudes to things like debate and being right and wrong.

But we have to maintain a reasonable standard on here and taking any diverging opinion as a challenge to prove oneself right does not help anyone. We are here to discuss and share knowledge and above all enjoy ourselves, even relax. Not run around and try and earn points for proving each other right or wrong.

If I cared what people think of me I would not be able to moderate and I will not allow people to bully me into doing things their way so that I can feel liked. A moderators job is not to be liked but to moderate and to try and maintain a fair and level environment for everyone with the odd concession here and there.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2019, 08:28:27 am »
Dear Simon;

Let all the Administrators judge on the matter.

Thanks you.

Regards;

Armadillo
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Using a clock generator SI5351 instead of a crystal
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2019, 08:42:32 am »
Oh btw;

You sounded excusing and close eyes to inappropriate personal attack and instead publicly abuse me instead.

I request the Administrators to note on these points as well.



Is mentioning hidden flag and my first language appropriate in this case?


It is very appropriate. I tend to not try and apply a standard yardstick and take into account individual circumstances. Plenty of people are not banned because I was willing to try and understand them in the context of not being a native english speaker or from the same culture as me. I avoid assuming that you are as you come across based on my cultural standard because I know you are not from the same place as me and our societies have different attitudes to things like debate and being right and wrong.

But we have to maintain a reasonable standard on here and taking any diverging opinion as a challenge to prove oneself right does not help anyone. We are here to discuss and share knowledge and above all enjoy ourselves, even relax. Not run around and try and earn points for proving each other right or wrong.

If I cared what people think of me I would not be able to moderate and I will not allow people to bully me into doing things their way so that I can feel liked. A moderators job is not to be liked but to moderate and to try and maintain a fair and level environment for everyone with the odd concession here and there.
 


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