Recommendation for de-soldering station for through-hole repair

[PA4TIM]

I have the MBT250 with TT65, PS90 and SX100. I also have an old SX70 from when I bought the station but the SX100 is no compare, it works so much better. I dived into it this weekend and the Pace MBT350 including everything I need (including a ton of tips (5 for each size except for the micro tweezers and TM100) sits just under 3000 euros while the same setup for JBC goes way over that. But I do not need a microsolder iron and tweezers and then there is a JBC with hotair, desolder and solder handpiece. But if I stay with Pace I can use the thermojet, SX100 and all tips on both stations (in theory, I have not yet sort out the connector difference) and in case I have one that fails, just when I have a pile of work, I can use the one from the other station.  I can buy the MBT250 but that costs more with 3 handpieces as the MBT350 with 5 handpieces

For others thinking about rework tools some thoughts about Pace but also in general:
The Pace MBT250 is sensatemp, a pretty good way to keep a very accurate tip temp. No cartridges but my PS90 outperforms my Metcal (that was a waist of cash) and I do not need the fast auto on/off. The handpieces have a black connector, tips are cheap and very long lasting.
The MBT350 is intellitemp, the connectors are blue and the station can use both modern cartridge and sensatemp handpieces. I do not know if the pinout is the same, if so there was no reason to use an other color. (i will ask Pace for advise, they always advised me great in the past)
They still produce both units but if you want price advantage you buy a base-kit and then add the rest. The same for handpieces, a spare handpiece cost almost the same as one complete with toolholder but  if you buy both separate the toolholder alone is around 85 euro.

The SX90 and SX100 use different tips. The 100 tips make contact with the heater over a much longer distance. I think 90 tips will fit the 100 but I do not think the 100 tips fit in the 90. The 100 tips have a trumpet shaped end. For me the only downside. As a test I removed the trumpet from my most used tips and used both versions for several months next to each other. I did not notice difference in performance but without the trumpet you never have to remove a huge ball of solder tacked to the trumpet. I now have removed all trumpets with a file.

Things to look for when you want a desolder gun is the amount of suction and the amount of air but even more important is the start when you press the switch. Pace calls that snap-vac, it takes 150ms to get max suction. This "shockwave" start is important to get the initial moving of the solderblob. Hakko uses some sort of valve technique to get this effect. I could not find that for JBC but I found a video where they compared both (and some better Chinese stations)  and the Hakko was just a bit better as the JBC but both where much better as the Chinese ones.

An other thing is durability, tips suffer a lot from things like the moving in circles, bending pins up if they are bent against the board and then soldered, from conformal coating etc. So take the price of tips into your budget for operation-costs. But that is not all. The fliters clog up reducing the airflow. I like pace for this because they are easy to clean (I wash the filters in IPA and now they last over a year instead of weeks. I just switch them but if I have time I wash the dirty ones. I use a little dot of steelwool in the traptube (I use the glass one but have a few disposable carton ones as backup)

In the year I had the Metcal I needed to clean and replace the worn pump membrane a few times (I had two pump units) My MBT250 pump is very old (several decenia) and has a very hard life. I opened it a few times but it looked inside like new and even the membrane was like new. So the filters do a pretty good job and my filter washing does not seem to have a negative effect) I heard from someone Pace used to advise to clean the pump so every now and then by pumping IPA through it (the guy who told me that he connected a piece of tubing instead of the handpiece and then used that to suck in IPA instead of air. It then returned through the hose h connected to the output nozzle and this way pumped it around. I have done this once about 10-15 years ago but the IPA came out as clean as it went in, so I never bothered to do that because opening them also always showed a clean pump.

And for last, desoldering is a technique, it is more difficult as soldering because you have to deal with old solder, coatings, dirt, corrosion, pads that can come lose, vias that can damage etc. Pace has some excellent videos made in the 80's but still very usable. Add solder if the solder will not melt within 2 seconds or so due to corrosion of the outer layer.  Conformal coating on top of the PCB is something that can bite you in the b%lls. If the solder melts but the coating not, there can not be an airflow through the hole. The solder melts but does not come out 100% or even none at all. Jus use a needle or scraper or whatever, to remove the coating enough for air to pass through. If a via is torn in 2 the solder will only melt on the side you apply the heat, but resoldering a new part can prevent the solder to flow also to the top part of the via and this way you can get a very bad connection between top and bottom trace.

Never apply pressure, this is the 100% sure way to kill a pad. If it does not melt add some fresh solder

Use the right size tip. Not to small (or solder can not pass) the tip must more or less mach the inner and outer diameter of the pad , it must not wider as the pad because in that case you will not melt anything but the epoxy :-)
Be extreme caution with single layer consumer grade pcbs with no vias. Those pad come loose even if you think about desoldering them. The right size tip and temperature is very important in those cases.

The solder gets sucked straight up against gravity, I often shake the handpiece a bit while I let the pump running. The metal Z strip in the reservoir then moves and prevents a ball of cold solder just above the tip-tube. But if possible I mount the PCB in a 90 degree angle, seems to work just a bit better.

Clean the tips bores. The get clogged with burned flux, coatings, oxides, dirt etc. Do this careful, you must not damage the coating (inside and outside) tip reactivators do a great job to keep your tipsa in shap. I use the stuff from Weller. It coats the tip. I also usd it on my DIY  tips (I sometimes make for special situations)

[tooki]

I have the MBT250 with TT65, PS90 and SX100. I also have an old SX70 from when I bought the station but the SX100 is no compare, it works so much better. I dived into it this weekend and the Pace MBT350 including everything I need (including a ton of tips (5 for each size except for the micro tweezers and TM100) sits just under 3000 euros while the same setup for JBC goes way over that. But I do not need a microsolder iron and tweezers and then there is a JBC with hotair, desolder and solder handpiece. But if I stay with Pace I can use the thermojet, SX100 and all tips on both stations (in theory, I have not yet sort out the connector difference) and in case I have one that fails, just when I have a pile of work, I can use the one from the other station.  I can buy the MBT250 but that costs more with 3 handpieces as the MBT350 with 5 handpieces

For others thinking about rework tools some thoughts about Pace but also in general:
The Pace MBT250 is sensatemp, a pretty good way to keep a very accurate tip temp. No cartridges but my PS90 outperforms my Metcal (that was a waist of cash) and I do not need the fast auto on/off. The handpieces have a black connector, tips are cheap and very long lasting.
The MBT350 is intellitemp, the connectors are blue and the station can use both modern cartridge and sensatemp handpieces. I do not know if the pinout is the same, if so there was no reason to use an other color. (i will ask Pace for advise, they always advised me great in the past)
They still produce both units but if you want price advantage you buy a base-kit and then add the rest. The same for handpieces, a spare handpiece cost almost the same as one complete with toolholder but  if you buy both separate the toolholder alone is around 85 euro.

They are not the same pinout.

To date, Pace has really only had 4 different control systems:
-"dimmed" mains AC
-SensaTemp
-IntelliHeat/HeatWise (cartridge heater)
-AccuDrive (cartridge heater)

All of the low-voltage systems use Amphenol C091 B series DIN connectors:
6-pin black is the SensaTemp connector, containing only the SensaTemp signals.
8-pin blue is the "IntelliHeat" connector, containing both IntelliHeat and SensaTemp signals.
4-pin red is the "HeatWise" connector, containing only the IntelliHeat signals.
4-pin black is the AccuDrive connector, containing only the AccuDrive signals.

SensaTemp handpieces can be adapted to work on stations with IntelliHeat sockets using this adapter: https://paceworldwide.com/6-8-pin-gender-bender-adapter

The SX90 and SX100 use different tips. The 100 tips make contact with the heater over a much longer distance. I think 90 tips will fit the 100 but I do not think the 100 tips fit in the 90. The 100 tips have a trumpet shaped end. For me the only downside. As a test I removed the trumpet from my most used tips and used both versions for several months next to each other. I did not notice difference in performance but without the trumpet you never have to remove a huge ball of solder tacked to the trumpet. I now have removed all trumpets with a file.

The SX-100 and SX-90 handpieces are practically identical. They use all the same spare parts, and other than the change in the color of the printing, I am unaware of any actual difference. (I spoke with Pace on the phone and asked, and the guy said there are only tiny differences.) For all intents and purposes, they're just different revisions of the same model, and indeed, the SX-100 uses the same SKUs as the SX-90.

It's the SX-80 (which is almost identical to the SX-90 and SX-100) that cannot accept the flared-tube tips. An SX-80 can be upgraded to an SX-90 by replacing its heater assembly with an SX-90 heater. (Note that SX-90 heaters come in two types, with different headers, black or blue, connecting the handle to heater.) SX-80 tips are similar to SX-90/SX-100 tips, but less heater contact and without the flare. The SX-70 (still available!) uses tips that have no tube and are not compatible with any later model. See the attached image from the SX-100 manual (which, other than its title, is identical to the SX-90 manual.)

Anyhow, according to Pace, the idea behind the flare is for the airflow to cause the solder to spray outward instead of just shooting forward as a single drop.

[PA4TIM]

Thanks for this info, great to know.

[Shock]

Nice post PA4TIM and well explained Tooki .

I'll add that a trap kit for the SX100 is very useful - part 6000-0212-P1. It reduces the need to do maintenance in the middle of a job by adding two extra reusable traps. Since they only take a few seconds to swap over, minimal downtime.

Regarding the Pace TJ70 thermojet I think it's a bit more flexible than the TJ85 as it has both button and optional foot actuation. Considering the small tip is 1.5mm (and flat tips are 6-7mm by 2mm) it's really a precision tool and not suitable for larger package removal. As smd keeps getting smaller anyway it's quite handy as long as you are prepared to use preheating. Perfect combo for me is a hot air station with custom profiles to fully control bga rework along with the thermojet for small jobs.

As you mentioned PA4TIM, the design of the older Pace handpieces allows you to machine/craft a custom tip if required. That is one area where cartridge tips are less flexible. Having Sensatemp wired handpieces has a side benefit that there is a larger range of stations.

[TheDefpom]

I am just about to publish a review video on the proskit SS-331 desoldering station, it goes live in a couple of hours or so:

[bmwman91]

The SX-100 and SX-90 handpieces are practically identical. They use all the same spare parts, and other than the change in the color of the printing, I am unaware of any actual difference. (I spoke with Pace on the phone and asked, and the guy said there are only tiny differences.) For all intents and purposes, they're just different revisions of the same model, and indeed, the SX-100 uses the same SKUs as the SX-90.

It's the SX-80 (which is almost identical to the SX-90 and SX-100) that cannot accept the flared-tube tips. An SX-80 can be upgraded to an SX-90 by replacing its heater assembly with an SX-90 heater. (Note that SX-90 heaters come in two types, with different headers, black or blue, connecting the handle to heater.) SX-80 tips are similar to SX-90/SX-100 tips, but less heater contact and without the flare. The SX-70 (still available!) uses tips that have no tube and are not compatible with any later model. See the attached image from the SX-100 manual (which, other than its title, is identical to the SX-90 manual.)

Anyhow, according to Pace, the idea behind the flare is for the airflow to cause the solder to spray outward instead of just shooting forward as a single drop.

Thanks a lot for the info, I just scored a good deal on an ST-125 station with SX-80 handpiece. A couple of users on EEV and elsewhere said that they felt like the SX-80 would clog too easily, so if I find that to be the case I will be looking into the doing the SX-90 Frankenstein mod you mention. I have a full complement of new filters and FLUX/SODR capture consumables on order, so I am optimistic that'll be a help. I may just convert to the SX-90 anyway since the eBay kit only has one tip, and if I am going to be buying new ones, I might as well get the later improved ones. Then again, I have been using an iron + blue plastic manual sucker for decades, so I think that this will be a real revelation for my desoldering adventures no matter what!

[David Hess]

I built my own vacuum desoldering station out of a Weller DS227 desoldering head and when removing DIPs, they just fall out of the board.  But this depends on being able to apply enough heat which is difficult with boards that have heavy ground and power planes.

[Haenk]

Now that there are some SX-100 users to ask - mine has the odd habit to push out a bit of air before sucking. Which does not really help when desoldering.
I already checked (and disassembled) the pump in my ST station, everything seems fine. Unfortunately, the spare seals seem to be unobtainable in Germany (though they look OK and I cleaned them very well).
Any ideas how to solve this (this seems to be design-related to the rotary pump mechanism, but I don't remember it doing this a couple of years back...)

[tooki]

The SX-100 and SX-90 handpieces are practically identical. They use all the same spare parts, and other than the change in the color of the printing, I am unaware of any actual difference. (I spoke with Pace on the phone and asked, and the guy said there are only tiny differences.) For all intents and purposes, they're just different revisions of the same model, and indeed, the SX-100 uses the same SKUs as the SX-90.

It's the SX-80 (which is almost identical to the SX-90 and SX-100) that cannot accept the flared-tube tips. An SX-80 can be upgraded to an SX-90 by replacing its heater assembly with an SX-90 heater. (Note that SX-90 heaters come in two types, with different headers, black or blue, connecting the handle to heater.) SX-80 tips are similar to SX-90/SX-100 tips, but less heater contact and without the flare. The SX-70 (still available!) uses tips that have no tube and are not compatible with any later model. See the attached image from the SX-100 manual (which, other than its title, is identical to the SX-90 manual.)

Anyhow, according to Pace, the idea behind the flare is for the airflow to cause the solder to spray outward instead of just shooting forward as a single drop.

Thanks a lot for the info, I just scored a good deal on an ST-125 station with SX-80 handpiece. A couple of users on EEV and elsewhere said that they felt like the SX-80 would clog too easily, so if I find that to be the case I will be looking into the doing the SX-90 Frankenstein mod you mention. I have a full complement of new filters and FLUX/SODR capture consumables on order, so I am optimistic that'll be a help. I may just convert to the SX-90 anyway since the eBay kit only has one tip, and if I am going to be buying new ones, I might as well get the later improved ones. Then again, I have been using an iron + blue plastic manual sucker for decades, so I think that this will be a real revelation for my desoldering adventures no matter what!

Nice!

FYI, the SX-80-to-90 isn’t an underground mod, it’s a sanctioned upgrade that Pace pushed at the time.

[tooki]

Now that there are some SX-100 users to ask - mine has the odd habit to push out a bit of air before sucking. Which does not really help when desoldering.
I already checked (and disassembled) the pump in my ST station, everything seems fine. Unfortunately, the spare seals seem to be unobtainable in Germany (though they look OK and I cleaned them very well).
Any ideas how to solve this (this seems to be design-related to the rotary pump mechanism, but I don't remember it doing this a couple of years back...)

1. The air movement is created by the station, not your SX-100 handpiece. So solving this requires us to know what station you’re using it on.

Farnell carries a fairly good selection of Pace parts. But if not, why not just look on the Pace website for their distributor in Germany? If I can easily get parts from their distributor in Switzerland, then you absolutely will be able to get them from their German distributor. And as a last resort you can always order from Pace directly and have it sent from USA.

[Haenk]

1. The air movement is created by the station, not your SX-100 handpiece. So solving this requires us to know what station you’re using it on.

Farnell carries a fairly good selection of Pace parts. But if not, why not just look on the Pace website for their distributor in Germany? If I can easily get parts from their distributor in Switzerland, then you absolutely will be able to get them from their German distributor. And as a last resort you can always order from Pace directly and have it sent from USA.

It's a ST 115; from the parts list, it seems the pump is the same in almost all (all?) stations and did not change for a loooong time.
As this is my private equipment, I need to purchase the parts on my own; distributors didn't bother to reply to my requests, "soldering24" obviously has the rebuild kit, but charges an arm and a leg, which is unacceptable.

[tooki]

1. The air movement is created by the station, not your SX-100 handpiece. So solving this requires us to know what station you’re using it on.

Farnell carries a fairly good selection of Pace parts. But if not, why not just look on the Pace website for their distributor in Germany? If I can easily get parts from their distributor in Switzerland, then you absolutely will be able to get them from their German distributor. And as a last resort you can always order from Pace directly and have it sent from USA.

It's a ST 115; from the parts list, it seems the pump is the same in almost all (all?) stations and did not change for a loooong time.
As this is my private equipment, I need to purchase the parts on my own; distributors didn't bother to reply to my requests, "soldering24" obviously has the rebuild kit, but charges an arm and a leg, which is unacceptable.

Well then now you’re just being silly. soldering24.de wants €16+vat and 7€ shipping. That seems entirely reasonable for something that sells for $15 plus tax plus shipping in its home country of USA.

So just order some supplies (like tips and filters, fresh seals for the handpiece, etc) at the same time to make the shipping worthwhile.

[testpoint1]

Hakko 808 is a good one

[PA4TIM]

Both my MBT250 and 350 sometimes do that. The 350 is new, the 250 over 25 years old but the pump is still in mint condition after very heavy use. I used the SX70 on the 250, a few years ago upgraded to the SX100. The 350 has a SX90, both bought new so it has nothing to do with wear

[Shock]

You guys aren't attaching to both the snap vac and pressure port at once are you? On my Pace MBT350 I just leave one tool air hose attached (it mentions this in the manual for performance) and leave the control on full airflow by default.

[aqibi2000]

#23 Reply
Posted by coppercone2 on 26 Jun, 2021 18:45
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i do not like those needles from the videos




That is a preposterous demonstration.

[PA4TIM]

Thanks Shock, I did not know.
I have a TJ85 and a SX90 on the 350 I wondered if I could let both connected at the same time. I tried both situations but it does not seem to differ in performance for the SX90, nor for the TJ85 (and the SX90 with the 931 nozzle.) I have not looked inside yet. From the 250 I knew I must keep the output clear because the pump outputs all its air through that port and in case of a TJ all the air sucked in by the pump goes through the vacuum input and if the SX100 uses the smallest nozzle this must restrict the air. But I was not sure for the 350 because the manual from the CD does not tell this. If I remove the SX90 when I use the TJ85, the pump is very loud, not really comfortable (not a problem because the TJ is only for doing shrinck-tubing or removing/soldering a resistor or so, when I am trouble shooting/repairing because it is silent when not in use). The TJ is not a replacement for a real hotair-station but it was able to remove resistors from a computer mobo and an 8 pin smd IC from a 4 layer PCB.

Shock, do you have a link to that manual ? 

[Shock]

Just checked, it's in the Pace SX100 handpiece manual.
https://paceworldwide.com/manuals

NOTE Insure that only one air handpiece is connected to either the Vacuum Port or Controllable PRESSURE Port at one time. Attachment to both ports simultaneously will cause a deterioration of performance.

[shuvodutta]

Other members are already covered all the necessary points. 

I personally use PACE system (a PACE MBT-250 primarily, with PS-90, SX-70 & TJ-70 hand-pieces, do have SX-80/SX-100 as standby.) & my experience with it is great so far (I used manual desoldering pumps before getting this system.), I don't do a lot of desoldering work though. PACE video on desoldering mentioned earlier in this thread is extremely helpful indeed. Forum members Shock & PA4TIM have already covered PACE systems well enough.

From my experience what matters are (at least for the PACE system I've),

1. Correct size of the desoldering nozzle/tip
2. Proper tinning of the tip
3. Addition of extra solder to the joint if necessary
4. Delayed actuation of the vacuum pump (1s or 2s after touching the joint; once the solder is melted)
5. Circular motion of the nozzle while desoldering
6. Little bit 'Wiggling' of the pin before removing the nozzle from the joint

I had to remove IR Rx/Tx diodes (PTH component) while repairing my Agilent U1241B (dense smt components near the joints) & above points made the work a breeze.

I keep only one 'Air-Hand-Piece' (SX-70 or TJ-70) connected to MBT-250 at a time.

On a side note, once I had a peculiar & rare issue (now solved) with my TJ-70 hand-piece, I've described it in this thread, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/curious-case-of-pace-tj-70/. Aaron from PACE Worldwide kindly obliged to respond & provided some valuable inputs on construction of theses hand-pieces. Interested people may have a look.