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[Solved] Repair of SMPS - Help request to identify blown TOP2?? in a SMPS
Posted by MrBeams on 08 May, 2024 15:36 -
Hello fellow forum members.
I would like to ask for some help in identifying a blown component that is fitted to the SMPS part of a Bluesound Pulse Mini speaker. I'd also be grateful for any clues as to what I could do to select a possible suitable replacement to try if unable to determine the exact one fitted.
The photo attached shows the component in situ on the PCB, the white ceramic block attached to it is shown the wrong way round in the photo, I just added it to show what it looks like. The complete IC is bolted to an 'L' shaped aluminium heatsink (not shown) and is encapsulated in the ceramic block.
I have managed to identify the following so far;
1) Manufacturer is Power Integration.
2) The IC is from the TOP2xx series of TOPSwitch-HX or JX family
3) The case format is an eSIP-7C
4) I have obtained the data sheets for the TOP252-262 range of ICs.
5) The power rating plate of the speaker states 100-240V-50/60Hz 100W
6) A 180uF/400V capacitor mounted near the mains input has also blown, I have a 150uF/420V available if it is deemed to be a suitable replacement?
An ideas on how I could move forward would be absolutely brilliant, thank you all in advance.
MrBeams
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understanding things would beggin with
draw the circuit by hand, if its possible, and sometimes with the data sheet you may get an idea of how it works
and if you got the top xxx schematic if its under 5 meg of size share it / attach it here, it may help others to give you some pointers / feedbacks etc ...
share some photos too ... we dont have a crystall ball, we can not guess things ...
if it's a smal smps psu block, is it possible to change it for another one / other brand ... -
The blown capacitor might indicate that one of the diodes in the rectifier bridge has shorted.
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Thank you for your reply coromonadalix.
"understanding things would beggin with"
"draw the circuit by hand, if its possible, and sometimes with the data sheet you may get an idea of how it works" Yes, I could probably do this, as a 70 year old with cataracts it might take me a bit of time
"and if you got the top xxx schematic if its under 5 meg of size share it / attach it here, it may help others to give you some pointers / feedbacks etc ..." The Datasheets are too large even when compressed so added hyperlinks if that's ok? I'm making an assumption that the blown IC is one of these devices due to being able to read TOP2 on the IC package, the rest of the number has been blown off when the component failed, see pic in OP.
https://www.power.com/products/topswitch/topswitch-hx
https://www.power.com/products/topswitch/topswitch-jx
"share some photos too ... we dont have a crystall ball, we can not guess things ..." Additional photos attached.
"if it's a smal smps psu block, is it possible to change it for another one / other brand ..." This would be impractical due to space constraint and the fact that it's not just a PSU. There are other boards sat above this one that plug into the PSU board. It's not just a PSU board, that being said, the PSU occupies one half of the total board.
Thank you.
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Thank you for your reply wasedadoc.
"The blown capacitor might indicate that one of the diodes in the rectifier bridge has shorted." I'm unsure whether the cap has failed electrically. The positive leg had corroded, as shown in the attached pic, and was not actually in circuit electrically on inspection. Is it a possibility that this failure could have led to the failure of the IC?. The can insulation got damaged when I had to remove the glue that was holding it to the PCB.
The bridge tests out OK off load
Thank you.
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Hi,
https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf-down/T/O/P/TOP261_PowerIntegrations.pdf
E Package (eSIP-7C;eSIP-7F)
F- tinned, molded.
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U500 Select by power.
Capacitor - just replace. -
Hi asis, thank you for taking the time to reply.
I think I will try and purchase a TOP261EN in a eSIP-7C (E Package) and see if that works ok.
I already have a 150uF/420V but the board uses a 180v/400V capacitor, do you think that 150uF vs 180uF would be a problem?
Many thanks. -
If the load power consumption is small, it is quite possible to use the existing ECAP.
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If the load power consumption is small, it is quite possible to use the existing ECAP.
I interpret that use of the word "existing" to mean the new 150uF, not the original 180uF. -
you can for tests but put a new / order a new one with the same value .... i've seen some forums with this brand, capacitors failures are reported a lot ?
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"if it's a smal smps psu block, is it possible to change it for another one / other brand ..." This would be impractical due to space constraint and the fact that it's not just a PSU. There are other boards sat above this one that plug into the PSU board. It's not just a PSU board, that being said, the PSU occupies one half of the total board.
Thank you.
Technically, you could simply desolder the transformer and optionally other parts like the input filtering and you can solder the DC output of a power supply directly to the output capacitors
You just need to figure out the output voltage - it will be lower than the rating of those two tall capacitors on the top right... I'd expect to be something like 20-25v.
All that's in the red is on high voltage side ... to the left of the yellow line it's just mains filtering, and a fuse by the power connector. You could desolder them to make room for a third party power supply. If you power the board with DC from separate power supply, you can unscrew and desolder the switcher IC, the transformer, and the diodes on the right side heatsink as well.
Example of power supplies that could possibly fit inside that space :
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fsp-technology-inc/FSP080-P24-A24/13240546 (24v 80w ) or https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fsp-technology-inc/FSP080-P24-A12/13240474 (12v 80w) or 15v 85w https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/RPS-120-15/7706020
and lots of laptop adapter style external power supplies are available as well (you could just replace the AC power connector with a barrel jack connector.
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you can for tests but put a new / order a new one with the same value .... i've seen some forums with this brand, capacitors failures are reported a lot ?
Yes you are correct, the new one that I have is 150uF and the one that has failed is 180uF. It does appear that Bluesound has used caps that are prone to failure across their range of products, the Node 2 & 2i have a high failure rate due to PSU caps failing. Different forums also suggest the premature failure is likely due to heat but I don't have an opinion on that.
Thanks for helping. -
you can for tests but put a new / order a new one with the same value .... i've seen some forums with this brand, capacitors failures are reported a lot ?
Understood, I'll source the correct value one from a reputable manufacture, with as high a temperature rating as I can find.
Thanks. -
"if it's a smal smps psu block, is it possible to change it for another one / other brand ..." This would be impractical due to space constraint and the fact that it's not just a PSU. There are other boards sat above this one that plug into the PSU board. It's not just a PSU board, that being said, the PSU occupies one half of the total board.
Thank you.
Technically, you could simply desolder the transformer and optionally other parts like the input filtering and you can solder the DC output of a power supply directly to the output capacitors
You just need to figure out the output voltage - it will be lower than the rating of those two tall capacitors on the top right... I'd expect to be something like 20-25v.
All that's in the red is on high voltage side ... to the left of the yellow line it's just mains filtering, and a fuse by the power connector. You could desolder them to make room for a third party power supply. If you power the board with DC from separate power supply, you can unscrew and desolder the switcher IC, the transformer, and the diodes on the right side heatsink as well.
Example of power supplies that could possibly fit inside that space :
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fsp-technology-inc/FSP080-P24-A24/13240546 (24v 80w ) or https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/fsp-technology-inc/FSP080-P24-A12/13240474 (12v 80w) or 15v 85w https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/RPS-120-15/7706020
and lots of laptop adapter style external power supplies are available as well (you could just replace the AC power connector with a barrel jack connector.
Thank you for such a detailed reply mariush, it is appreciated. The hyperlinks you've provided are a good place to start.
That could be the way to go if I fail to repair the unit, I certainly like the sound of the external PSU option. -
So things have progressed with my original aim which was to identify the failed switcher IC.
The front face of the IC had suffered considerable damage where it had blown making it impossible to determine the exact type of IC other than being able to read TOP2. I tried cleaning the face with various cleaning solutions to no avail.
As a last resort I asked a friend to pop it in his small ultrasonic cleaning bath, wow what a revelation, I could now clearly read the second number using a loupe and could pretty much make a good stab at the third, revealing TOP271.
Using Power Integrations datasheet for the IC type I'm able to determine that it can only be one specific TOP271 IC due to the package type, namely a TOP271EG . The power rating fits well with the speakers information plate.
Next step is to order that device and the correct cap and take it from there. Looks like the components will be around £7.00 but the handling/carriage will be £12.00
, however this would be a small price to pay considering the speaker is around £490 retail.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the forum members who tried to help me, I really do appreciate it. As a first post in this type of forum I also learnt a lot about what information is expected from me when making a cry for help and hopefully it will help me improve in the future. It also helped me think outside the box too.
Hopefully this is where my journey ends for this particular repair so I will mark the topic solved as my original aim has been achieved. If things don't work out after fitting the new components then I'll return with a new topic
Thanks again all
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If it's not too late, you can order it from TME.EU for around 2.4 pounds plus vat : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/top271eg/voltage-regulators-pwm-circuits/power-integrations/
Shipping's probably 4-6 pounds. It will ship from Poland warehouse.
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If it's not too late, you can order it from TME.EU for around 2.4 pounds plus vat : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/top271eg/voltage-regulators-pwm-circuits/power-integrations/
Shipping's probably 4-6 pounds. It will ship from Poland warehouse.
Thanks mariush
No it's not too late as I haven't placed an order yet. Carriage would be £7.00 which is £5.00 less than Mouser. The problem is that TME don't have any of the capacitors I need in stock and they have a long lead time
I've decided to also replace the 2 x DC Lelon output capacitors with Nichicon for reliability, they have a longer life at elevated temperature, the Lelons test ok but this speaker is a nightmare to teardown and I don't want to have to do it again in my remaining lifetime
I didn't know that this company existed but I shall certainly check their stocks when I need to order something in future the delivery price is much better if they have the component needed. I've created an account already.
You've been a great help, thank you once again
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Thanks mariush
No it's not too late as I haven't placed an order yet. Carriage would be £7.00 which is £5.00 less than Mouser. The problem is that TME don't have any of the capacitors I need in stock and they have a long lead time I've decided to also replace the 2 x DC Lelon output capacitors with Nichicon for reliability, they have a longer life at elevated temperature, the Lelons test ok but this speaker is a nightmare to teardown and I don't want to have to do it again in my remaining lifetime
I didn't know that this company existed but I shall certainly check their stocks when I need to order something in future the delivery price is much better if they have the component needed. I've created an account already.
You've been a great help, thank you once again
You can usually go up in voltage rating and even capacitance value, as long as the capacitors will fit inside the area (or they're not taller than the space available).
If you tell what capacitors you're looking for (and what size are your current capacitors), I'm willing to look up and recommend something for you. -
Thanks mariush
No it's not too late as I haven't placed an order yet. Carriage would be £7.00 which is £5.00 less than Mouser. The problem is that TME don't have any of the capacitors I need in stock and they have a long lead time I've decided to also replace the 2 x DC Lelon output capacitors with Nichicon for reliability, they have a longer life at elevated temperature, the Lelons test ok but this speaker is a nightmare to teardown and I don't want to have to do it again in my remaining lifetime
I didn't know that this company existed but I shall certainly check their stocks when I need to order something in future the delivery price is much better if they have the component needed. I've created an account already.
You can usually go up in voltage rating and even capacitance value, as long as the capacitors will fit inside the area (or they're not taller than the space available).
If you tell what capacitors you're looking for (and what size are your current capacitors), I'm willing to look up and recommend something for you.
Hi mariush, thank you for your kind offer.
I need to purchase the following electrolytic capacitors, preferably with as long a life as possible at 105°C.
2 x 1500uF 35V, Length 38mm max, Diameter 13mm max, LS 5mm.
1 x 180uF 400V, Length 45mm max Diameter 20mm max, LS 7.5mm.
2 x 1000uF 10V, Length 20mm max, Diameter 10mm max LS 5mm. These are is in a very high temperature environment due to poor layout design of the SMPS
I do have a preference for a good brand such as Panasonic, Rubycon, Nichicon etc and am prepared to pay a little extra for that. The Mouser total is £22.56 inc. VAT & Shipping and includes the TOP271EN.
You've been a great help, thank you once again
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You have
Nichicon UPH 220uF 400v 18mm x 46mm , 7.5mm pitch : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/uph2g221mhd/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/nichicon/
- higher capacitance is not an issue for your application, though this capacitor is expensive.
For 1000uF 10v :
Panasonic FR series 1000uF 16v , 8mm x 20mm, 9000h @ 105c (tradeoff between endurance and specs, a tiny bit worse specs compared to 10x16 version)
eeufr1c102lb https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1c102lb/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
Panasonic FR series 1000uF 16v, 10mm x 16mm, 8000h @ 105c (a bit better specs than 8mm x 15mm versions below) :
eeufr1c102 https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1c102/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/ or
eeufr1c102b https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1c102b/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/ (same part, just how bulk vs tape packaging)
Panasonic FR series 1000uF 10v , 8mm x 15 mm 8000h@105c :
eeufr1a102l https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1a102l/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
eeufr1a102lb https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1a102lb/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
Panasonic FM series 1000uF 16v , 10mm x 20mm 5000h@105c : https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufm1c102/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
For 1500uF 35v :
EEUFR1V152L 1500uF; 35VDC; Ø12.5x30mm 10k hours
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufr1v152l/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
EEUFM1V152L 1500uF; 35VDC; Ø12.5x35mm 7k hours
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/eeufm1v152l/tht-electrolytic-capacitors/panasonic/
--- alternatives to the lower voltage capacitors , solid capacitors / hybrid...
Note the lifetime is calculated differently for these ... Lifetime = original lifetime x 10 (Trating - Tambient)/20 ...
On electrolytics, you calculate lifetime as "for every 10 degrees from rating, you double the life", ex 2000h @ 105c means 4k if capacitor works all its life at 95c , 8k at 85c etc etc
A 2000h@ 105c polymer working at 45c would be rated for L = 2000h x 10(105-45)/20 = 2000 x 1000 = 2m hours.... an electrolytic would be less than 100k hours.
1000uF 10v :
16SEPF1000M Capacitor: polymer; 1mF; 16VDC; SEPF; THT; ±20%; -55÷105°C; Ø10x13mm - 5000h @ 105c
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/16sepf1000m/tht-polymer-capacitors/panasonic/
A750MS108M1CAAE013 Capacitor: polymer; low ESR; 1000uF; 16VDC; ESR: 13mΩ; THT; ±20% 10mm x 12mm , 5000h @ 105c
https://www.tme.eu/gb/details/a755ms108m1aaae013/tht-polymer-capacitors/kemet/
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Hi mariush
Excellent, thank you so much, you've made an old mans job very easy
I've learnt a lot from your explanation, it's good to keep the brain active
I will order the parts during next week and once fitted will report back on the status of the repair.
Thanks again.