EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Repair => Topic started by: Bigfoot on July 26, 2015, 11:04:04 pm
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Hello Folks,
I dabble in electronics and purchased a Siglent SDS1102DL DSO over a year ago and now out of waranty. I've used it half a dozen times and it's been sitting on the bench for at least 6 months unused. Anyhow I turned it on yesterday to use it and it booted up with the LCD screen reversed left to right ,flickering and snowy. The buttons all work and it shows traces but everything is reversed such as text labels and menus. The menu even shows up on the left instead of the right of the screen. I stripped it down to check the ribbon cables but found nothing wrong.
Would any of you kind folk have a clue? I will try a firmware upgrage before I drop kick it into the dumpster.
Cheers,
Bigfoot.
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I will try a firmware upgrage before I drop kick it into the dumpster.
:-DD :-DD :-DD
However, DON'T DO THAT!!
For something that has received such little use tends to make me think that it could just need a firmware upgrade. Also, there are Siglent aficionado's (distributors) present on this forum so I am sure they will chime in and offer you some sound advice.
Edit: The Siglent distributor for NZ who is active on this forum goes by the name 'tautech'. So if you don't have any luck, shoot him a PM and see if he has come across this problem before.
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If I remember right the firmware is in two parts (or was way back when) and that is to support the resellers (sold under many brandnames and that allows for branding). Sounds like that part the bit with the splash screen and font information is having the issue. When you upload the firmware you will need to make sure that both portions are installed. By default I don't think that they are, only the functions relating directly to the controls and such, not the font and layout.
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I dabble in electronics and purchased a Siglent SDS1102DL DSO over a year ago and now out of waranty.
No it's not, Siglent products have 3 years warranty.
Honestly your first contact should be your supplier or contact Siglent for your local distributor.
Post a photo please.
If I remember right the firmware is in two parts.....
It doesn't sound like the .cfg file is the problem. :-//
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Hello Folks,
I dabble in electronics and purchased a Siglent SDS1102DL DSO over a year ago and now out of waranty. I've used it half a dozen times and it's been sitting on the bench for at least 6 months unused. Anyhow I turned it on yesterday to use it and it booted up with the LCD screen reversed left to right ,flickering and snowy. The buttons all work and it shows traces but everything is reversed such as text labels and menus. The menu even shows up on the left instead of the right of the screen. I stripped it down to check the ribbon cables but found nothing wrong.
Would any of you kind folk have a clue? I will try a firmware upgrage before I drop kick it into the dumpster.
Cheers,
Bigfoot.
You must met a display problem, If you could remove the shell refer to the service manual http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf (http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf), I suggest you to check the cable between the display and mother board.
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You must met a display problem, If you could remove the shell refer to the service manual http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf (http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf), I suggest you to check the cable between the display and mother board.
Would a loose cable really result in the text being reversed though?
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I've updated firmware and reseated both ends of the flexcables with no change in the problem. See the attached pic. Everything is reversed from the very first boot screen through operation. Also I think the screen looks washed out , too much noise as I would expect the signal view area to be nice and black.
Sometimes when pushing buttons red and green bars appear vertically and the screen refresh slows down and flickers.
the image looks distorted at the right hand side (is that overscanning?) So with my limited knowledge it looks like the video signal is out of whack.
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Another pic of the screen with help menu up.
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Never seen anything like it..... :-BROKE
Siglent's placed a link to the SM, could you do the PSU and motherboard checks?
Good DMM and scope required for 3 frequency checks on crystals.
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Yes truly bizarre. Fortunately I have a couple of analog scopes and frequency counter. I'll locate the SM ans see about the PS.
Bigfoot.
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No it's not, Siglent products have 3 years warranty.
Honestly your first contact should be your supplier or contact Siglent for your local distributor.
Even so, the OP mentioned in his first post that the unit had been opened :-/O
I'll locate the SM ans see about the PS.
http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf (http://siglentamerica.com/Uploadfile/file/20140925/SDS1000DL_ServiceManual_en.pdf)
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Looking at the service manual it indicates that this kind of failure requires the unit be returned to the service center. At this stage I can't remember who it was purchased from but in any event warranty has been voided.
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No it's not, Siglent products have 3 years warranty.
Honestly your first contact should be your supplier or contact Siglent for your local distributor.
Even so, the OP mentioned in his first post that the unit had been opened :-/O
Yes and despite this Siglent Technical support have asked the OP to:
If you could remove the shell refer to the service manual
I suggest you to check the cable between the display and mother board.
Siglent recognize EEVblog members are not fools and are capable of simple checks.
Test procedures are quite straight forward and well described in the Service manual that is free for all to download. :-+
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Seems to me the Australia detection chip malfunctioned and instead of flipping the image over the horizontal axes it's flipping it over the vertical one.
Kidding aside, Siglent are the ones that asked you to open the scope to look at the cable, I would think they will still honor your 3 year warranty as tautech has mentioned.
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I've performed the checks. All voltages on the power connector are within spec. The 3 frequencies measured spot on , 30MHz, 25MHz and 100MHz.
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I've performed the checks. All voltages on the power connector are within spec. The 3 frequencies measured spot on , 30MHz, 25MHz and 100MHz.
I've asked Siglent to re-visit this thread, let's see what advice they offer for your next step.
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OK Thanks very much.
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Hi Bigfoot,
please reinsert the cable between the display and mother board.
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I've updated firmware and reseated both ends of the flexcables with no change in the problem.
Hi Bigfoot,
please reinsert the cable between the display and mother board.
Hmm.
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I've updated firmware and reseated both ends of the flexcables with no change in the problem.
Hi Bigfoot,
please reinsert the cable between the display and mother board.
Hmm.
This is not to say Bigfoot has done this correctly. :-//
These ribbon cables can be tricky to engage correctly and get all the way home and then get the retainer locked as well.
When I had a incorrect display problem with a similar unit under warranty Siglent sent a spare display ribbon cable along with other replacement parts.
However it was been the only warranty repair I have had to do on Siglent products.
Touch wood.
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OK. I'll give it another try. I did clean the contacts with isopropyl alcohol and I understand these ribbon cables can be problematic. We'll see what happens.
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I've removed and reseated both ribbon cables , also inspected for cold joints on the mainboard cable socket with a magnifier and can't see anything wrong. The LCD mylar flexcable has factory goop all over the end so reluctant to touch that. I've also removed the LCD ribbon cable and checked continuity on each individual line and it also checks out OK.
It still remains a mysterious problem.
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Murphy's rides again!
I plucked the silicon off the LCD Mylar flexcable that goes directly to the LCD and reseated the cable, booted up the scope and the display is now back to normal see the pic. There you have it the cable socket is a hinged type that lifts off the cable as I discovered under the silicon adhesive so any contraction of the silicon over time is going to reduce conductivity of the cable to socket as it would have a tendancy to unlock the cable.
Alas I now need a replacement power switch as I inadvertently snapped it off at the mast. It didn't require much force to do this. The switch cap needs to be the first thing removed. Live and learn. :palm: :-//
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I plucked the silicon off the LCD Mylar flexcable that goes directly to the LCD and reseated the cable, booted up the scope and the display is now back to normal see the pic.
Not sure what silicon you mean. :-//
There usually is a fabric retaining tape to prevent accidental dislodgement for these ribbon cables.
IME it lifts cleanly and is placed above the tinned and exposed area of the cable and adheres to the socket. Lifting it can be a little tricky, I use a tiny screwdriver or the blunt side of a scalpel blade.
Anyways, you have it going. :-+
Pic of new factory supplied display ribbon cable as below.
~75mm long.
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I have to say that a simple thread like this says a great deal about Siglent and tautech. I would have suggest to Siglent that they post a disclaimer (do at your own risk) but regardless, two thumbs up on the just do it attitude.
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The silicon I'm referring to is on the small PCB stuck to the back of the LCD panel which has two connectors one is the end of the ribbon cable coming from the main PCB and the other is a socket for the Mylar (clear orange) flexcable which goes into the TFT display itself. This small PCB looks to be a bridge between the grey ribbon cable and the orange Mylar flexcable. The problem had nothing to do with the grey ribbon cables.
There's no tape on any of my cables. There appears to be copious amounts of white (neutral core) silicon used. Quite a bit of it around the legs of a group of electrolytics on the Power Supply board (probably for HV insulation). I know this stuff shrinks with age and realistically I can see why this would cause a problem on the specific socket due to the construction. Once you pick off the silicon the socket latch comes away at 90deg to the cable, it's the hinged variety. I didn't get a pic of this as the scope is all sealed up now.
There's a possibility this will occur with other units. Very strange how the display was reversed though.
Anyhow I thank you all for the suggestions.
Bigfoot.
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The problem had nothing to do with the grey ribbon cables.
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. :-+
Quite a bit of it around the legs of a group of electrolytics on the Power Supply board (probably for HV insulation).
In many Asian products you find this.
More for mechanical reasons than electrical IMHO.
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I have to say that a simple thread like this says a great deal about Siglent and tautech. I would have suggest to Siglent that they post a disclaimer (do at your own risk) but regardless, two thumbs up on the just do it attitude.
It's more than that pickle, don't you just love a good mystery too.
@ Bigfoot
This was a very unusual fault and your fault finding efforts/skill certainly helped. :-+
Guys, I've asked Siglent (Jade) to refer this thread to R&D as it appears there might be a rare issue with the retaining silicon and the LCD connector.
Maybe it will never happen again. :-//
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It did look like a hardware issue rather than firmware and fortunately it was only a cable. Overall these scopes look pretty well constructed (apart from that power switch location |O |O) I would buy another.
@tautech: A question for you, what are the chances of getting a new power switch from Siglent?
Cheers,
Bigfoot.
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AFAIK it is part of the PSU and unlikely to be available as a separate item.
I'm sure I've seen mention of similar breakages in past threads and mention of suppliers for them. :-//
Maybe it was a Rigol. :-//
It's getting late here and the brain is starting to fog up, I'll sleep on it.
E14 or RS is where I'd go looking for one.
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All good. I sourced a couple on eBay UK. The switch manufacturer part no is KDC-A11 type 303. It'll be as good as new in no time at all.
Bigfoot.
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Dear friends, please I strongly do not scold-how to communicate with you through translator. After reading your topic I think I encountered the same problem. Purchased on aliexpress SDS1102 Siglent CNL, received the goods at the post office brought it home and Oh include a screen around the perimeter gives some sort of red tides ( like stripes but with smooth contours ), these bands change their shape, e.g. press the menu button, each menu item with a right-to-left in the background more red tide, off the menu instead of black background get reddish. Advise something, a huge request to you friends that if you need to replace please provide a link to ebay or aliexpress if you want to do something with the device then please tell us in an expanded form on the fingers and if the photo will attach I will be very grateful to you. I enclose for your attention a video of my misfortune, probably will be clearer. Thank you for your precious time and understanding!
https://youtu.be/XWv7_psA75k
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Welcome to the forum.
The serial # indicates it was made in March 15 and is still in warranty.
Do you have a Siglent dealer near you for assistance?
I have not seen that same fault before.
Normal recommendation from Siglent for screen faults is to re-seat the LCD ribbon cables. There are 3 connections, motherboard, and a socket the adapts the ribbon cable to the LCD panel flex PCB.
Re-seat all 3 connections.
Let me link Siglent to this thread and they should be online in ~5 hrs.
As it is under warranty please wait for their instructions.
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@Roman Nartov
Siglent Techical support engineer looked at your post and replied to me:
Hi Rob,
For this problem.
Our suggestion is same like you .
Best regards,
Jexy
Please see these examples of a similar LCD problem and how it was fixed:
I plucked the silicon off the LCD Mylar flexcable that goes directly to the LCD and reseated the cable, booted up the scope and the display is now back to normal see the pic. There you have it the cable socket is a hinged type that lifts off the cable as I discovered under the silicon adhesive so any contraction of the silicon over time is going to reduce conductivity of the cable to socket as it would have a tendancy to unlock the cable.
The silicon I'm referring to is on the small PCB stuck to the back of the LCD panel which has two connectors one is the end of the ribbon cable coming from the main PCB and the other is a socket for the Mylar (clear orange) flexcable which goes into the TFT display itself. This small PCB looks to be a bridge between the grey ribbon cable and the orange Mylar flexcable. The problem had nothing to do with the grey ribbon cables.
There's no tape on any of my cables. There appears to be copious amounts of white (neutral core) silicon used. Quite a bit of it around the legs of a group of electrolytics on the Power Supply board (probably for HV insulation). I know this stuff shrinks with age and realistically I can see why this would cause a problem on the specific socket due to the construction. Once you pick off the silicon the socket latch comes away at 90deg to the cable, it's the hinged variety. I didn't get a pic of this as the scope is all sealed up now.
There's a possibility this will occur with other units. Very strange how the display was reversed though.
Anyhow I thank you all for the suggestions.
Bigfoot.
It seems the white silicon rather than preventing connection problems on the LCD mylar connection is actually causing a connection problem by way of shrinkage, partially pulling the connection apart.
This is maybe something Siglent needs to address with a different more stable product. :-//
Please report your findings to us.
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Dear friends, thank you for responding! I understand you correctly I need to release the cable from the connector and re-insert it into place? Sorry to ask again but I work with a translator. Thank you for your understanding.
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Dear friends, thank you for responding! I understand you correctly I need to release the cable from the connector and re-insert it into place? Sorry to ask again but I work with a translator. Thank you for your understanding.
Yes that is correct. One of the gray ribbon cables is for the front panel keypad and the other is for the LCD.
Note there is another LCD connection hidden behind the LCD. You must check this other hidden LCD connection too.
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Thank you for the prompt information, please tell me where you are hidden behind lcd panel connection? These connections also go through a mechanical connector?
In all the pictures you can see that the ribbon cable goes directly to the screen without mechanical coupling, it is necessary to remove the metal housing from the lcd screen?
Please tell me if it doesn't work then can I change the screen like in this link : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/sds1102cml-lcd-26-pin/msg720299/#msg720299 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/sds1102cml-lcd-26-pin/msg720299/#msg720299)
And do I understand correctly that the model of this lcd screen AT070TN07 ?
Thank you for taking the time and understanding of my problem
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Thank you for the prompt information, please tell me where you are hidden behind lcd panel connection? These connections also go through a mechanical connector?
In all the pictures you can see that the ribbon cable goes directly to the screen without mechanical coupling, it is necessary to remove the metal housing from the lcd screen?
See movie @ 0.44.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dQmKARz4hfSlhtU01yY1dlTXM/edit?pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_dQmKARz4hfSlhtU01yY1dlTXM/edit?pli=1)
Yes, the hidden interface connector is behind the metal housing.
To access this connector you must dismantle the scope.