Repairing the rotary encoder on a Roland XV-5080 sound module

[Humanoid]

Hi guys

I could use some advice on this. The rotary encoder knob appears to not be sold by Roland anymore and it's what's used to shuttle through the patches. It's a known problem where it doesn't change values or it skips up and down or does nothing.

I found a service manual and the only thing it lists (besides the unavailable part number EC16B36244) is "L=20, DCUT=7".

Some people say they've had luck carefully disassembling the encoder and cleaning out the contacts. If that doesn't work, is there any way to figure out what type of other encoder could replace it?

Thanks

[xavier60]

If you can get some contact oil into it, will likely fix it.
I have been using PAO synthetic oil to fix scratchy pots, switches and mechanical encoders for 20 years.

[ledtester]

Rotary encoders having the same physical dimensions and number of detents are generally compatible with each other.

I searched for "EC16 rotary encoder" and came up with this hit:

https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/G769APR07/EC16+Rotary+Encoder+Switch+24+Positions+Alps%C2%AE.html

For Alps encoders I think the "16" refers to a physical size. For instance, all of the products in the "EC11" series have seem to have a width of 11.7 mm:

https://tech.alpsalpine.com/prod/e/pdf/encoder/incremental/ec11/ec11.pdf

If your encoder matches the stated dimensions I would take a chance on it. Once you have it we can test it to make sure it is electrically compatible.

Another thing you can do is write a polite email to Alps and ask for the datasheet for your encoder.

[Humanoid]

Rotary encoders having the same physical dimensions and number of detents are generally compatible with each other.

I searched for "EC16 rotary encoder" and came up with this hit:

https://www.westfloridacomponents.com/G769APR07/EC16+Rotary+Encoder+Switch+24+Positions+Alps%C2%AE.html

For Alps encoders I think the "16" refers to a physical size. For instance, all of the products in the "EC11" series have seem to have a width of 11.7 mm:

https://tech.alpsalpine.com/prod/e/pdf/encoder/incremental/ec11/ec11.pdf

If your encoder matches the stated dimensions I would take a chance on it. Once you have it we can test it to make sure it is electrically compatible.

Another thing you can do is write a polite email to Alps and ask for the datasheet for your encoder.

Thanks for the info.

How do you know Alps was the manufacturer for the Roland encoder?

[ledtester]

How do you know Alps was the manufacturer for the Roland encoder?

Honesty, I'm just guessing based on the part numbers of their other rotary encoders.

I just had another idea...

Can you post a pic of your encoder? Does it happen to be a "horizontal encoder"?

Horizontal -- the shaft lies parallel to the plane of the PCB
Vertical -- the shaft is oriented perpendicular to the PCB

The B in the model number "EC16B..." suggests the structure is horizontal.

If it horizontal it is likely you can use a vertical encoder and just attach wires from the pins of the encoder to the PCB. In that case the encoder wouldn't have to match the footprint on the PCB which opens up a lot more possibilities.

[Humanoid]

How do you know Alps was the manufacturer for the Roland encoder?

Honesty, I'm just guessing based on the part numbers of their other rotary encoders.

I just had another idea...

Can you post a pic of your encoder? Does it happen to be a "horizontal encoder"?

Horizontal -- the shaft lies parallel to the plane of the PCB
Vertical -- the shaft is oriented perpendicular to the PCB

The B in the model number "EC16B..." suggests the structure is horizontal.

If it horizontal it is likely you can use a vertical encoder and just attach wires from the pins of the encoder to the PCB. In that case the encoder wouldn't have to match the footprint on the PCB which opens up a lot more possibilities.

I just did some searches based on your assumption and I found a forum post elsewhere that said it IS in fact a custom Alps encoder EB16B type, a "quadrature". The original had 36 detents and 4 wires going to a connector that plugs into one of the other pcbs (the XV has a few pcbs that connect together). They said it's hard to find an Alps model with a metal shaft that also has push-button functionality. Here's the link:
http://www.forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?t=52997

I think the encoder is perpendicular, but I'd have to open my sound module and take off the faceplate to check. The images online of the XV-3080 shows it uses a small pcb and is perpendicular.

This site here is out of stock but they show a replacement they say works, and this one looks horizontal. I'll have to open mine to be sure. (I might just go do that now )
https://syntaur.com/Items.php?Item=1116

I found one article on another site about cleaning the one in the XV-3080 (should be the same as the 5080)
https://ekartco.com/2020/06/xv5080-xv3080-rotary-encoder-problem-fixed/

This facebook post has a mod, but it involves drilling the PCB which I'd prefer to avoid:
https://www.facebook.com/franck.morisseau/media_set?set=a.10207606507791723.1073741885.1561682528&type=3

Needless to say this is an elusive part now since Roland stopped stocking it. I think I bought mine new around 2001 so it's no surprise.

[ledtester]

I see... from the Facebook link the encoder is of the vertical variety and is mounted on a small carrier PCB. There appears to be no other electronic components (i.e. no resistors or capacitors) on the PCB.

I think you can make practically any rotary encoder work for you as long as it has a compatible shaft diameter and adequate shaft length. The number of "pulses per revolution" (PPR) shouldn't matter too much -- the Bourns one (PEC11R-4220F-S0024) in the Facebook posting has 24 PPR whereas the original has 36.

Another aspect in choosing a replacement is is get one without an anti-rotation tab. The original one has such a tab:



but the Bourns doesn't have one. It's unlikely that you'll be able to line up the tab with the matching hole in the faceplate, so just get an encoder that doesn't have the tab or one that you can break off.

So my checklist for a replacement:

- rotary encoder with switch
- around 36 detents
- vertical style encoder
- compatible shaft diameter and shaft length
- D-style shaft
- no anti-rotation tab

From what I can tell there is no need to use a PCB. You can just solder female jumper wires directly to the pins of the encoder and plug them into the pin header on the main PCB. Or use male jumper wires to plug into the existing cable. This pic shows how you might solder a wire from the encoder which then plugs directly into the cable:

[Humanoid]

So my checklist for a replacement:

- rotary encoder with switch
- around 36 detents
- vertical style encoder
- compatible shaft diameter and shaft length
- D-style shaft
- no anti-rotation tab

Thanks man. I'll do some searching and see if I find anything. 

[xavier60]

If you can't find a replacement, give this a try, http://www.microlubrol.com/microlubrolmicrosyn1000ultrapure100fullysyntheticpolyalphaolefinpaolubricantoil4oz118ml.aspx

[Humanoid]

If you can't find a replacement, give this a try, http://www.microlubrol.com/microlubrolmicrosyn1000ultrapure100fullysyntheticpolyalphaolefinpaolubricantoil4oz118ml.aspx

Would i still need to disassemble the encoder to apply this?

[Humanoid]

From what I can tell there is no need to use a PCB. You can just solder female jumper wires directly to the pins of the encoder and plug them into the pin header on the main PCB. Or use male jumper wires to plug into the existing cable. This pic shows how you might solder a wire from the encoder which then plugs directly into the cable:

So far I've found no rotary encoders with 36 PPR that are also quadrature and have switch functionality. There was one from Grayhill that might have worked, but it was made of plastic and looked flimsy.

I'm going to order the one that guy used since i need to buy some parts anyway. If I cant clean the old one, I'll try rigging up the Bourns. I'll post my progress either way.

[xavier60]

If you can't find a replacement, give this a try, http://www.microlubrol.com/microlubrolmicrosyn1000ultrapure100fullysyntheticpolyalphaolefinpaolubricantoil4oz118ml.aspx

Would i still need to disassemble the encoder to apply this?

It can be disassembled first or submerge it in the oil while operating the center switch to help draw the oil in.
Thinning the oil 50/50 with turpentine will help to get it inside.

[sounds]

Following on from this, I've got a (circa 20 year old) Roland TD-10 Pro drum kit, the rotary encoder on which stopped working correctly. The encoder sits on its' own daughter board, so I removed the nut holding the encoder in place and sprayed contact cleaner between the spindle and casing of the rotary encoder. Left it a few minutes to dry, then re-assembled and tested ... it's now working perfectly again. No need to replace or even disassemble the actual encoder itself