Author Topic: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine  (Read 16957 times)

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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2018, 08:28:45 pm »
This is a picture of MY existing, tested, and fully-functioning thermostat / thermal cutoff switch (See pic).  It is apparently a 10Amp, 250V variety with a 208 Degree Celsius temp rating. 

Here is also a picture of the existing, "tested as DEAD" thermal fuse as well.  What thermal fuse do I need to buy to replace this unit?  Unfortunately I cannot read the writing on the bad unit as it is 98% rubbed off. 

Do I need to make sure it's a 10Amp fuse as well, or can it be 15Amp (like the model the local electronics store salesperson pointed me toward)?  And what model (or better yet, what Functioning, Holding and/or Maximum Temps) should this new / replacement thermal fuse have?   

THANK YOU!!!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:10:46 pm by paluszak »
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2018, 07:39:27 pm »
floobydust,

I believe that I have finally found the correct TCO I need, however it is listed as 15A (NTE8167), go figure...  The Thermostat in my unit again is listed as a 10a/250v?  Is it going to be okay to put this 15A TCO inline with a 10A Thermostat / Thermal switch?   Do they make a 10A version of something like the NTE8167?   Thanks again!
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2018, 08:18:01 pm »
Chauvet FX-800 fog machine is 700W or about 6A draw at 120VAC.
So both the thermostat and thermal cutoff need to be capable of carrying more than this much current.
A 10A or 15A rated thermal fuse would not matter here. These fuses activate first due to pellet temperature.

NTE Inc. Thermal Cutoffs TCO datasheets says 10A continuous and 15A interrupting.
Digikey also sells TCO's by Cantherm, SDF series rated 10A or 15A at 125V or 250V, depending on the region for safety approvals.

If your thermostat is stuck on, then it will overheat and blow the new TCO. I always buy a few extra.
 
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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2018, 09:32:07 pm »
Thank you again for your time and awesome help! 

So I stopped at my local electronic store after work, but they did not have the proper TCO fuse, so I am probably just going to order it online.

One quick question though before I do so (hopefully the last) if I may...  Why would the TCO temperature be slightly lower (as opposed to slightly higher) than the thermostat / thermal switch temperature rating, as you had stated previously?

Just want to make sure I get the correct one, and get this over with.

Thank you again for the assistance!

Jason
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2018, 10:25:06 pm »
The TCO protects the enclosure from getting too hot. The fog machine's designers don't seem to care about only the heater overheating.

The TCO is located inside an insulating sleeve, far away on the mounting bracket at the bottom of the enclosure.
It does not accurately see the heating block temperature. There is lots of heat loss and really, when the enclosure bottom heats up is when it trips.

Some fog machines have plastic enclosures, others a steel bottom, so I think that's why the TCO temp rating varies so much.
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2018, 11:29:02 pm »
Ahhhhhhhh....   Okay then!   So essentially, if the TCO was connected in the same manner (at the same location as the thermostat switch AND touching bare metal as that one is) it would get a much higher temp exposure (than it conversely gets now down toward the base and all insulated) ...and hence if it was this same 170 degree Celsius unit, it would fail open and "cutout" well BEFORE the thermostat?
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:32:02 pm by paluszak »
 

Offline Astrodev

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2018, 11:54:19 pm »
If you want to get the right part why not give Customer Service at Chauvet a ring and they will probably tell you what the value should be and if they are anything like the guy's I deal with at Chauvet they might even send you the correct part out.
 
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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2018, 12:06:55 am »
I will do that...  Thank you!
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2018, 06:45:09 pm »
Ha!  From Chauvet support...

"Jason, so sorry but after speaking with our product development team it looks like we’re unable to assist. As this product has been discontinued for so long we’re unable to confirm which fuse would be a suitable replacement. Please feel free to reach out to our customer service team to confirm this 9545774455 option4"

Wow!  It's only 10-14 years old, not like 25 or 50?  I even have manuals and schematics of things I owned when I was a teenager, and that's just little ole me, not a big business creating PRODUCTS for mass consumers for decades.  Oh well.  So much for THAT avenue.

Jason
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2018, 06:47:36 pm »
To be fair, I did just get this from them as well (as a follow-up):

Jason, were very sorry for the inconvenience. We do keep records of all legacy products, however, we lost 2 of our servers containing this data during Hurricane Irma in 2017.

So much for digital backups I guess (esp in the year 2017?)
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2018, 07:16:02 pm »
Other posters (halloween fog forums) saying Chauvet will sell only the entire heater/fuse/thermostat assembly  :P

I'll bet the heater is a generic 700W one from china, you can track down the same fog machine guts but under a different label and see what the thermal cutoff rating is.
The Antari F-80Z (heater block) looks the same and 172 degree TCO, also used for a few other models ice, 1000, 1100.
I think that's the best guess out there until someone else repairs one and posts here.

The TCO is to stop the fog machine from burning down the house if the thermostat failed, stuck on. Paper ignites at 233C so the enclosure (bracket) better stay way cooler under that fault condition.

Maybe try out the NTE part and see how it does?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 07:29:14 pm by floobydust »
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2018, 08:02:07 pm »
Yep.  TOTALLY AGREE with you... and thank you again for the 4insight.   I definitely want to put "something" in for safety-sake and I don't want it to be TOO high, not work and then catch on fire, however, I also don't want to use one too low and have it FAIL every single time I use the fog machine!  ha ha
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 08:40:41 pm by paluszak »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2018, 10:23:26 pm »
Most fog machines have fake or no safety approvals.

The FX-800 is claimed to "Intertek ETL Listing" but does not exist in the product certifications database. No fog machines by Chauvet and Sons, Inc. FL USA are in there. It must have been taken by the hurricane. They seem to purchase from HESHAN TONGFANG LIGHTING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD - Heshan, Guangdong CHINA.

Some fog machines are only basic electrical (grounding, electric shock) tested, and a few for Europe I found tested to the appliance standard IEC 60335-1 which covers fire.

My point is the thermal fuse was never formally tested to provide fire protection in this model.
 
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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 07:56:09 pm »
Dang pesky hurricanes...  Anyone else see the irony here, given that this is one of Chauvet's leading Fog Machine model names?   ;)
 

Offline noall666

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2018, 11:13:39 pm »
I need help with this fog machine, heres a quick run down. 400 watt, pump works, heating coil heats up, BUT, it shuts off and doesn't go on, when you would think it does, not sure if there is a wiring problem, anyone know how these things are suppose to be wired, or if my temperature controller thing is shot. this thread has been some help, but maybe specifics,wiring diagram etc, would be even better.

cheers

side note , i think the switch has been altered, so lets see if i can figure out how to add some photos.....
 

Offline squinta

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2020, 07:31:26 pm »
Hello!
I own the same machine.
If it warms up and the command light doesnt go off, then you have a default switch.
If it doesnt wrm up you have a default termal fuse.
Check both for sure.
 

Offline FlightRisk

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2021, 07:07:46 pm »
Tough choice whether to revive a dead post or start a new one, but perhaps people still follow this and it is the same issue, different machine. I have an old Gemmy fogging cauldron and it stopped making sounds and blowing fog. But it gets very hot. I tested the pump and power supply, they work fine. I believe it is a thermal switch. I have never seen anything like this before and want to replace it. I shorted the contacts on the board and get sound when I do. If I remove the jumper, it still makes sound. So I *believe* this must be a NC switch that opens at a certain temperature. How can I tell? This has a 50VA power supply (120V 500mA in / 12VAC 50VA (4.2A) out).

Can anyone tell me how these work? Something waits 10 to 15mins or when it gets to a certain temperature and then pumps fog. It must have a timer to pump for a certain time and stop. At first I thought this sensor tells the unit when it is hot enough to fog. Now I think it cuts off at a certain temperature and makes a tiny fan blow. But I have no idea. Can anyone translate the markings? It has a theta symbol and 104 on the outside silicone sleeve (another clue that RT silicone and the flesh colored silicone sleeve must have a max temp) and inside it has VW -1. I see what looks like identical parts available from China, but you need to know NC or NO and what temp. They only go up to 75C on the site I found.

 

Offline mansaxel

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2021, 07:39:33 pm »
I've been servicing such machines. What Astrodev writes is pretty much on the spot.

Higher-end machines have a regulator circuit that will control the temperature a bit closer. They'll usually have a temp sensor on the block too, as input to the regulation.

Here, it's much simpler, with the hysteresis of the bi-metal giving a somewhat jagged regulation curve.  :-DD

I'm also leaning towards the bi-metal thermostat being welded closed, if the machine does not stay sensibly warm but instead races to glowing.

The absence of smoke can be down to a lot of things. Normally, a membrane pump or similar will push the fluid through the block. Even if you have the best fluid, there's going to be some residue, which will clog the block. Best cleaning method is to safebloc the pump to the mains (assuming it's a mains voltage pump, of course.) and push distilled water through the cold block. When the water's clear and comes out of the block in a long urination-like arc you're good.

Offline Kiukle

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2024, 07:14:52 pm »
Most fog machines have fake or no safety approvals.

The FX-800 is claimed to "Intertek ETL Listing" but does not exist in the product certifications database. No fog machines by Chauvet and Sons, Inc. FL USA are in there. It must have been taken by the hurricane. They seem to purchase from HESHAN TONGFANG LIGHTING TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD - Heshan, Guangdong CHINA.

Some fog machines are only basic electrical (grounding, electric shock) tested, and a few for Europe I found tested to the appliance standard IEC 60335-1 which covers fire.

My point is the thermal fuse was never formally tested to provide fire protection in this model.


Hi Floobydust, any chance you could look at my new thread? Seems this OP had found his second thermal switch, and I am trying to locate mine, figuring you might be able to help me out

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/need-help-troubleshooting-my-fog-machine/
 

Offline BILLPOD

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2024, 07:47:07 pm »
Looks like I have to go shopping, as it seems I'm the only one around here without a fog machine :scared:
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2024, 08:43:53 pm »

Quote
Looks like I have to go shopping, as it seems I'm the only one around here without a fog machine
just fire a co2 fire extinguisher into a bucket of warm water,if however your after haze  compressed air into  a bucket of baby oil is all thats needed.
 


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