Author Topic: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine  (Read 14184 times)

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Offline GrafZeppelinTopic starter

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Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« on: May 20, 2018, 10:21:49 am »
Hello all,

I have a fog machine "IMG Stage Line" and need to replace the thermal fuse CH-15. Did not find any shops that sell these, also found only one datasheet on the web, but it's not accessible.
I have added pictures of both sides of the fuse. Does anyone know any alternative fuses that could work? By the way, I'm based in EU.

Fog machine:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Machine-FM-708-Quality-Product-Monacor/dp/B001RGTK4S

Thanks in advance
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 10:39:53 am by GrafZeppelin »
 

Offline pyroesp

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 10:42:47 am »
Quick google search showed this webpage : http://www.wako-clinac.co.jp/product_en/ch-15_ch-152_en/index.html
If they can't sell you one or more (try asking for their MOQ), you might find a suitable replacement somewhere else. All the info you need is listed on the page.
 

Offline GrafZeppelinTopic starter

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 10:45:50 am »
Quick google search showed this webpage : http://www.wako-clinac.co.jp/product_en/ch-15_ch-152_en/index.html
If they can't sell you one or more (try asking for their MOQ), you might find a suitable replacement somewhere else. All the info you need is listed on the page.

Does the link open for you? Because for me it keeps loading forever and nothing shows... Tried multiple browsers, still the same.
 

Offline pyroesp

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 10:50:30 am »
It works fine on my end  ???
 

Offline GrafZeppelinTopic starter

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 10:57:51 am »
It works fine on my end  ???

Weird, all I get is "This site can’t be reached" - see attachment  ???

Would it be possible for you to make a screenshot of the specifications and post it here? I'd be super gratefull for that  :-\

**UPDATE : Nevermind, the site finally loaded! Thanks for your input anyways :)
 

Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 12:02:11 pm »
That should automatically reset, there’s normally another inline thermal fuse tucked away somewhere that has a higher temperature than the auto reset one as a “just in case”

Is the one in the photos definitely the problem?

Had a few mates with smoke machines call me after replacing these and saying the machine still isn’t working, when I’ve looked at it I’ve found the secondary fuse. In all cases something’s fallen on the machine or done something to cause the over temperature.
 

Offline GrafZeppelinTopic starter

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 12:22:08 pm »
That should automatically reset, there’s normally another inline thermal fuse tucked away somewhere that has a higher temperature than the auto reset one as a “just in case”

Is the one in the photos definitely the problem?

Had a few mates with smoke machines call me after replacing these and saying the machine still isn’t working, when I’ve looked at it I’ve found the secondary fuse. In all cases something’s fallen on the machine or done something to cause the over temperature.

To he honest, not sure if the thermostat in the pictures is the root cause of the problem. This machine was brought to me by a friend, who said that normally when the machine heats up, the light on the remote control should dim down, but it does not. The machine just gets hotter and there is no fog comming out, so I figure it must be the fault of a thermostat / thermal fuse. Another important fact he said, there was alcohol spilled on the fog machine itself, and please correct if i'm wrong, but that probably caused shortcircuit and over temperature.

Adding more pictures from the internals, maybe you can spot the secondary fuse? Thanks

 

Offline electrolux

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 12:27:06 pm »
Pretty sure the switch you showed in the pic automatically resets, look inside and see if you see a thermal fuse that looks a little like the pic here, test it like you would test a normal fuse and if its blown check the temperature, voltage and amp ratings which should be written on the side then order a new one.

 
The funniest thing about this signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything its too late to stop reading it.
 

Offline GrafZeppelinTopic starter

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2018, 12:38:35 pm »
Pretty sure the switch you showed in the pic automatically resets, look inside and see if you see a thermal fuse that looks a little like the pic here, test it like you would test a normal fuse and if its blown check the temperature, voltage and amp ratings which should be written on the side then order a new one.

 

Thanks for the suggestion,

Looked inside and finally found the fuse. I'm learning so much today, really happy :D

Just to double check, I have tested the fuse and it reads 0 ohms, meaning it has been blown, correct?

 

Offline pyroesp

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2018, 06:16:17 pm »
0 Ohms is ok. If the meter showed overload, then it's blown.
You can also use the diode mode, if it beeps it's fine.

You can check your thermal switch CH-15 the same way, although you don't know if it's a normal open or normal closed and it's not specified on the manuf. website.

Like other users said, those thermal switches automatically reset, but those things do fail too.

EDIT 2:
Just saw the last picture with the meter, that's overload, so yes the thermal fuse is blown.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 06:23:23 pm by pyroesp »
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2018, 07:47:06 am »
If the machine heats up then highly unlikely the thermal switch is the problem You can see it's wired straight in series with the element so it's basically just a temperature limiter.  More likely the liquid ingress damaged something on the PCB that controls the smoke fluid delivery. 
 

Offline electrolux

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 11:10:05 am »
Pretty sure the switch you showed in the pic automatically resets, look inside and see if you see a thermal fuse that looks a little like the pic here, test it like you would test a normal fuse and if its blown check the temperature, voltage and amp ratings which should be written on the side then order a new one.

 

Thanks for the suggestion,

Looked inside and finally found the fuse. I'm learning so much today, really happy :D

Just to double check, I have tested the fuse and it reads 0 ohms, meaning it has been blown, correct?


Yup, looks like it. If you want to be extra sure you can turn meter to the 'beep mode' which will make it beep when the two probes make contact. If it does not beep when you connect it to the fuse that means its blown.
The funniest thing about this signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything its too late to stop reading it.
 

Offline abraxa

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 01:46:43 pm »
Just for clarification: You say that the "heating" indicator light never turns off. That would be correct since the termal fuse is blown.

However, you also say that the "machine just gets hotter and there is no fog comming out". Does it actually become hot when plugged in for 2-3 minutes or is that just an assumption? With the fuse being blown, I don't see how it could heat up but I just want to make sure we're all on the same page here.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 07:23:46 pm »
One additional comment :  When replacing these thermal fuses, DO NOT SOLDER them in!  That will cause them to "blow" as in go open-circuit, as they will be exposed to the soldering temperature.  (Don't ask how I know THIS!)

You need to crimp the terminals.  Possibly, they can be soldered with a really good heat sink applied closer to the body than where you are soldering to.

Jon
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2018, 05:32:38 pm »
Do you happen to know or remember the model or specs on the inline Thermal Fuse you used to replace the bad one in the Fog Machine you were working on?  I am having the same issue and need to do the same, and wanted to get fuse on way home (before I am able to take apart and confirm this on mine, myself).  Thanks!  Jason
 

Offline abraxa

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 06:42:34 pm »
Just in case OP doesn't answer in time, the temperature range for the fuse should be between 100 and 133°C. Too low and it'll trip too quickly, too high and the fluid may pose a risk when pushed into the vaporization chamber (it contains glycerol or glycol, which are both alcohols and can ignite - in theory, at least).
If I was you, I'd start with 100°C and if that blows, try again with 110 or 120.

Also, checking the thermostat gives a hint. The fuse should have a temperature only slightly higher than its switch point.
 
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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 08:02:50 pm »
Thank you very much...   Just to confirm, would that be the "holding" or the "maximum" temperature?  Sorry if this is a dumb question.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 09:07:25 pm »
OP's thermostat is 220°C and the glycol fog fluids run that hot. I think the thermal cutoff is going to be well past that.
 

Offline Astrodev

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 11:12:45 pm »
The method of operation on most of these machines is a heater mounted on a block to provide thermal mass and through which a small bore metal vaporisation tube passes, attached to the block there is usually a bimetallic thermal switch (normally closed) this is what is shown in the first picture, there is also a thermal fuse (the small axial component that looks a bit like a diode that you have also identified).


All 3 of these parts are wired in series usually across the mains with either a relay or the mains switch to turn the circuit on.

So after turning it on you can usually smell that it is warming up or feel some heat coming off if you hold your hand about 6 inches above the heated block.

If this is happening then it suggests the heater and thermal fuse are OK.

If not unplug and use the resistance measurement across the thermal fuse (up to 10ohms is usually OK), bimetal switch (about 1-2 ohms) and the heater (6-250 ohms depending on the power rating for a small DJ type unit I would expect 100-200 ohms)

Now if the unit is heating up this is where it gets a bit trickier using the meter to measure AC volts monitor the voltage across the bimetal switch, which should initially be around 0V, but should start changing between 0V and the 230V or 115V depending on your local mains voltage, this switching temperature is usually reached in 3 to 5 mins, but if this switching does not start after 7 to 10 mins it may be that the bimetal switch has failed (they sometimes weld shut) in which case keeping the unit running will probably burn out the thermal fuse (this is there to protect the heater from damage and not the fluid which is pretty inert and contrary to an earlier post is almost impossible to ignite).

If you need to replace anything in this part of the machine it is better to crimp rather than solder, the best method I have found for fitting replacement thermal fuses is to crimp them in using bootlace ferrules.



 
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 02:43:04 am »
Forgive me if I am mistaken floobydust, but I believe that the rating on the cutout switch is in Fahrenheit (so 104.4 Celsius), That is how mine is anyway.  Thanks.  Jason
 

Offline Astrodev

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 03:13:27 am »
220 Celsius would make sense as the 2 components of the fluid are water 30% BP 100 Celsius and DPG 70% BP 230 Celsius   
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 03:53:28 am »
I thought the same, but I cannot find anything other than one on Amazon that says it is a 98 degree C variety?  Here is mine....
 

Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 04:06:53 am »
Okay, sorry, I think I finally found the correct "closest" example...   

See: 
https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Celsius-Normal-Ceramic-Thermostat/dp/B008X0Y14A/ref=mp_s_a_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1539057374&sr=8-15&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=ksd301

The question is simply, which thermal fuse (which I have confirmed as bad) do I use in conjunction with this cutout switch? 

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

...Anyone?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 03:18:52 pm by paluszak »
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2018, 07:31:58 pm »
Because the thermal cutoff (fuse) has a safety function, I can't give you a temperature value out of my hat. Especially without knowing make/model  :P

Antari F-80Z uses "220 degree" thermostat and "172 degree" TCO, so the TCO (location) must be monitoring pump outflow (heater inflow). You have to get water to steam to get pressure, without burning the glycol, so my money is on Celcius.

From Big Clive MAKE YOUR OWN SMOKE FLUID  "... In reality the risk of burning occurs at about 400 degrees centigrade and most machines operate down in the 200 - 300 degree region."

His detailed explanation of e-cig and fog machines:
 
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Offline paluszak

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Re: Replacing thermal fuse in a fog machine
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2018, 08:03:22 pm »
The machine is a Chauvet FX-800, and I cannot find information on this particular model ANYWHERE!?  I have the manual and it is completely useless as well.  Thanks again for your contribution.  I am checking out djlightingdiscount.com right now! 
 


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