Author Topic: Rigol ds1054z  (Read 17122 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2018, 01:17:02 pm »
and this image is after 14 hours off.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2018, 06:11:23 pm »
I ask, it can not be a power source problem, since the defect is of the four channels, but in different ways?
 

Offline mk_

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Country: at
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2018, 08:57:07 am »
I ask, it can not be a power source problem, since the defect is of the four channels, but in different ways?

Well, I would really like to see all 4 channels together, not only CH1 and some kind of a timeline...

It would be also very interesting to see if other, non-Rigol probes do the same mysterios things to see if it is a probe-related problem or a  1054z based one.

Anyway, if the probes stay correct compensated after 10min powerd up... who cares... maybe wrong capacitors in the frontend? No NPO but Y5V (0,002€ct cheaper per 1k)? who knows...

Most of the more complex electronic devices needs some kind of warmig up. The LeCroy - Currentprobes (3 years old) loose there Zerocompensation when changing range, my LISN-Receiver needs about 30min for repeatable results and my (home made) diffprobes also need some warming up not only because the Opamp-bias currrents rise.
 
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7331
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2018, 10:25:18 am »
What is your normal or average room temperature ?

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2018, 12:57:44 pm »
hello, these days it's 24º (75.2ºF), I measure the temperature in the BNC connectors of the oscilloscope, when they reach 29ºC (85ºF) the channels are perfect
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 02:15:55 pm by Adrian_Arg. »
 

Online Twoflower

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 664
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2018, 05:55:13 pm »
Somehow we should identify the culprit. Is it the scope or are the probes unstable. I doubt that the problem is the combination of both.

Sorry if I missed that and repeat one test you're already done: Have you tried to run the scope for 30 minutes that it should be OK without the probes attached and then attach the cold probes? Does it come in un-compensated state or does it show a perfect waveform?

Also you can try to warm up the probes before switching on the scope. Placing them in the sun for few minutes would bring them even above the normal operating temperature.
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7331
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2018, 05:58:43 pm »
Also you can try to warm up the probes before switching on the scope. Placing them in the sun for few minutes would bring them even above the normal operating temperature.

Thats too troublesome, use wife/mom/GF's hairdryer, that should be enough to warm up the probes.  :P

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4001
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2018, 06:21:07 pm »
Somehow we should identify the culprit. Is it the scope or are the probes unstable.

Would the probes warm up once the scope is switched on? They do not dissipate any significant electrical power, right? So I can't see how a warm-up effect in the probes would come about, and would rather suspect [edit: typo corrected] the scope.

Nevertheless, it can't hurt to try with a different set of probes if you have access to one.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 07:23:30 pm by ebastler »
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2018, 07:12:27 pm »
things that I have tried.
1- probes of a tektronix oscilloscope of a friend. result you got the error.
2- turn it on without the probes and after 15 minutes connect the probe, result, the error does not appear.
3. turn on the device with probes x1, there is no error, change immediately to x10, you see the error.
4- compare measurements with the tektronix once stabilized, result correctly measured
 

Online Twoflower

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 664
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2018, 08:02:24 pm »
So your test has definitely ruled out the probes.

It was a simple test to just rule them out. The probes get warmer by the heat-transfer from the scope via the BNC. I'm aware that the passives should not get warm from themselves. Or you have a bigger problem than the compensation.

I think it's a good time to review Dave' videos about the scope-probes and the one were he reverses a front-end of a scope (EEVblog #675; actually a DS1054Z, here's the schematic Dave created). I'm not sure at which voltage/div setting the 'attenuator' is bypassed (you hear a faint 'click' sound). Can you see if this makes some difference if you're above/below the switching point of that relais? But it could also be impossible to do so because the range is too high too low. The D4000 switch between 2V/div and 5V/div.

But that will only help to narrow down the root-cause. Fixing it will most likely require a modification which will most probably will cause problems if you need the warranty.
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 22082
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2018, 08:03:59 pm »
things that I have tried.
1- probes of a tektronix oscilloscope of a friend. result you got the error.
2- turn it on without the probes and after 15 minutes connect the probe, result, the error does not appear.
3. turn on the device with probes x1, there is no error, change immediately to x10, you see the error.
4- compare measurements with the tektronix once stabilized, result correctly measured
Is the scope fan working ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
The following users thanked this post: ebastler

Offline Gary350z

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2018, 09:01:25 pm »
Is the scope fan working ?
Good question. Scope could be overheating.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2018, 10:05:15 pm »
if the fan works, the oscilloscope has 45 days, the fault is when it starts not running for minutes, at 10 minutes or so it works perfectly.
 

Offline Gary350z

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2018, 02:05:20 am »
if the fan works, the oscilloscope has 45 days...
I don't understand this statement.
Is the fan working; yes or no?

This is what I'm thinking:
If the fan is not working, the scope will overheat, and some part inside the scope will change tolerance.
If the probes are compensated when the scope is overheated, the trace will look good as long as the scope is hot.
When the scope cools off, the part inside the scope will go back to the correct tolerance, and the trace will show the probes are uncompensated.
As the scope heats up again (overheats) the trace will then become correctly compensated.
This seems to describe your problem.

So check to see if the fan is working.


 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2018, 02:37:34 am »
if the fan works correctly, it is the one that it brought from the factory, the equipment is new, but I live in Argentina and the round trip to the US costs almost the same as the oscilloscope. Before opening the team, I want to have an idea of what I have to look inside. Since neither tequipament, nor Chinese Rigol gave signs of life.
 

Offline Gary350z

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 221
  • Country: us
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2018, 03:40:01 am »
if the fan works correctly, it is the one that it brought from the factory...
I don't understand this statement either. There is a language barrier.

You don't have to take the scope apart.
Turn the scope on and listen for the fan. Do you hear the fan running? Do you feel the fan blowing air?
Is the fan running, yes or no?
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1675
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #66 on: May 01, 2018, 12:04:05 pm »
Adrian, if you want you can explain in Spanish and I will translate it to English
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #67 on: May 01, 2018, 01:03:59 pm »
Adrian, if you want you can explain in Spanish and I will translate it to English
Cuando enciendo el osciloscopio después de muchas horas de inactividad, las sondas son desequilibradas, sondas de opción X10, en la configuración X1 comienza perfecto.
1- las mediciones se realizan perfecto una vez estabilizado.
2- temperatura ambiente promedio de mi espacio 24ºC.
3- el ventilador funciona correctamente, expulsa aire. solo que es ruidoso.
la otra información está en esta publicación, desde el principio.

Mi opinión es que puede ser que la fuente de energía genere demasiado calor, ya que en los conectores del osciloscopio una vez que se estabiliza hay 30 ° c. y lo que realmente hace es desestabilizar los conectores, que en este caso debería haber poca temperatura. estoy pensando en destaparlo y hacerlo funcionar con la fuente de poder alejada para ver como influye.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:07:35 pm by Adrian_Arg. »
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1675
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #68 on: May 01, 2018, 01:17:31 pm »
Adrian, if you want you can explain in Spanish and I will translate it to English
Cuando enciendo el osciloscopio después de muchas horas de inactividad, las sondas son desequilibradas, sondas de opción X10, en la configuración X1 comienza perfecto.
1- las mediciones se realizan perfecto una vez estabilizado.
2- temperatura ambiente promedio de mi espacio 24ºC.
3- el ventilador funciona correctamente, expulsa aire. solo que es ruidoso.
la otra información está en esta publicación, desde el principio.

Mi opinión es que puede ser que la fuente de energía genere demasiado calor, ya que en los conectores del osciloscopio una vez que se estabiliza hay 30 ° c. y lo que realmente hace es desestabilizar los conectores, que en este caso debería haber poca temperatura. estoy pensando en destaparlo y hacerlo funcionar con la fuente de poder alejada para ver como influye.

TRANSLATION:

When I turn the scope on after many hours of inactivity, the probes (switched to X10) are uncompensated.  If probes are in X1 mode, they work perfectly.
1- Measurements are perfect once stabilized.
2- Average room temperature is 24ºC
3- The Fan is working.  Blows air out of the scope but it is noisy
Other information is in this thread (from the beginning).

My opinion is that it can be the power supply generating too much heat, as the connectors (BNC?) are at 30ºC once stabilized and destabilizes the connectors, they should be cooler.  I am thinking on removing the cover and try with the power supply far away to see how it influences the operation of the scope
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1675
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #69 on: May 01, 2018, 01:22:06 pm »
3- The Fan is working.  Blows air out of the scope but it is noisy
I don't have the DS1054Z, but someone can verify if the Fan should be blowing air towards the PCB or the opposite?  I think my Keysight 1000X's Fan blows air towards the PCB
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4001
  • Country: de
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #70 on: May 01, 2018, 01:26:23 pm »
I don't have the DS1054Z, but someone can verify if the Fan should be blowing air towards the PCB or the opposite?  I think my Keysight 1000X's Fan blows air towards the PCB

Looking at the front of the scope, the fan is mounted on the left-hand side. It blows air out of the scope on that side; the air inlet is on the right.
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2018, 01:27:22 pm »
3- The Fan is working.  Blows air out of the scope but it is noisy
I don't have the DS1054Z, but someone can verify if the Fan should be blowing air towards the PCB or the opposite?  I think my Keysight 1000X's Fan blows air towards the PCB
en el mio sopla hacia afuera del osciloscopio, ahora me gustaría entrar a la duda, habria que preguntar al que posea uno.
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7331
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2018, 01:51:02 pm »
Weird question ...

I know you used X1 and X10 vice versa during your normal use.

Now, what if, turn on the scope, set to X10 , compensate and NEVER switch to X1 , continue use or observe as before, does problem still persist ?

Again, never switch to X1, just stay at X10 only.

PS : TK need help here, TIA
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 01:57:30 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline Adrian_Arg.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2018, 01:55:46 pm »
from the beginning I compose them and use them in X10, but in some moments I do not want to wait for a few minutes then I use them in X1, but I always use X10, they are compensated in X10, what happens is that when the BNC inputs reach about 28ºC is compensated alone, or really the decompensas
 

Offline BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7331
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: Rigol ds1054z
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2018, 02:07:32 pm »
Lets wait for TK, it seems like you don't get it.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf