Author Topic: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error - FIXED  (Read 25273 times)

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Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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EDIT: At the bottom of the post there are some quick links if you just want to see the fault fix/voltage measurements/shielding investigation.

Got an SMIQ06 off ebay sold "for parts/not working" but with pictures of the thing operating normally and throwing no errors.  I took a chance, and on the first boot an error not pictured or described showed up and I confirmed that it loaded settings from its last used before power off... so it was definitely something the seller either failed to notice or intentionally hid (the pics showed a demonstration of the highest output frequency that did not exhibit and error).

My buying experience aside, the error shown actually seems likely a single-component fix, and I've gathered a fair bit of information on what's probably going wrong just from testing the output in various configurations, so hopefully this thread will show a complete fix for the issue as well as a decent look inside the instrument, which it doesn't seem like there's a lot of pics/videos of.  Definitely the most complicated instrument I've tried to fix, but a full schematic and repair manual is available and from the error message itself, the issue is (probably) narrowed down to one board.

Anyways, the problem is that at any frequency over 3.3GHz, Error 110 with the ALC springs up, specifically on the 6G board.  The SMIQ03 goes up to 3.3GHz, and the difference with the 06 is an extra board for the higher frequencies, so it's already narrowed down to an issue on the 6G board.  Checking the output level with the spectrum analyzer, below 3.3GHz stays within 1.5dB down from the stated value on the bandwidth settings I used, and given the loss of the cable and the uncertainty of the analyzer's measurement, this is probably all within specification.  Beyond 3.3GHz, I've measured as low as almost -5dB under the stated level, but the frequency and waveform seem fine (no extra noise, jitter, modulation artifacts, etc.).  I ran a sweep with a peak hold trace on the analyzer to get an idea of the overall response over the range and while it drops somewhat above 3.3GHz, it's mostly just unstable.  I checked down to the limit of the instrument and up a bit and the ALC error persists regardless of amplitude (and my analyzer can see just a little tiny peak at -116dB with the preamp on!).  Auto-calibrating the ALC also fails when it gets onto the 6G board.



Interestingly, in other modes, like the AM mode using an internal source, the ALC error does not show and the output stabilizes.  Not only that, with a test signal of 4GHz, enabling the AM settings but turning modulation depth to 0% yields no error.  If you then turn AM off altogether, the amplitude of the signal is approximately stable, but it starts jumping around by +-.15dB or so and the ALC error suddenly starts.  Knowing this, I think it probably narrows down the target of my repair to either a single amplifier stage near the output, or the ALC circuitry driving the variable gain of that stage.  I will have to look through the documentation to see if the final stage is different going through the AM portion, but it seems like that entire path is fine, as well as all of the preliminary frequency generation stages.




With an idea of what was going on, I wanted to see what I was physically working with.  I also noted on first power up that the side fan made noise like a tiny tornado, so I wanted to find and replace it with something a little more reasonably quiet.  Taking the instrument apart is easy, 4 screws in back on the plastic rear guards on either side let them slide off, then the top and bottom panels can just slide off in the same way, so long as you have no regard for calibration seals.  From the top side, almost every board is populated and almost everything is shielded... I've seen inside an FSEA series analyzer and the construction is very similar.  From the bottom, you get the RF connections and a label on every board slot.  On the right side looking at the front plate is the big noisy fan (with plenty of clearance for a big quiet fan with similar airflow) and the top of the mechanical attenuator box.  In the back, the power supply is entirely enclosed in a shield and the next board in line is the CPU module (the only board without RF connectors on the bottom).  Seems straight forward.




The locking mechanism for the boards was interesting though, because from the top it looks like they can just slide out - there is no visible retainer.  On the bottom, however, there's two sliding rails that can be moved back to release clips coming down from the shields on each board, letting you pull them out the top.




That's as far as I got today, but I think the route forward is clear: look at the schematic and block diagram to try to find the amplifier and the ALC driver it uses so that I can find them on the board, then take out the board, open it up, and give them a look myself.  Because of the way the thing is built, I expect it to be quite tough to probe when powered up, but some basic measurements with mod wires should be doable, and since the whole thing is designed to be serviceable, I may even find some test points on an edge or on the connector on the bottom of the card.  I'm not expecting this to be an incredibly quick fix (because it will take me a while to do everything carefully, not because it's likely to be super complicated), but hopefully in the next few weeks or a month I can get it up and running.

Helpful links:
The primary and final fault was fixed and described here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-log-6ghz-board-alc-error/msg1235363/#msg1235363

The unit was closed up and the measured voltages from the board are marked here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-log-6ghz-board-alc-error/msg1237643/#msg1237643

And some measurements of the stray harmonics with and without the 6GHz board's shielding in place can be found here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-log-6ghz-board-alc-error/msg1239830/#msg1239830

A second fix for a similar problem that developed over time plus a couple close up shots of some of the RF bits on the 6GHz extension board:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/rohde-schwarz-smiq06b-repair-log-6ghz-board-alc-error/msg1449566/#msg1449566
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 10:30:35 pm by DaJMasta »
 

Online vaualbus

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2017, 10:53:49 am »
Were you find the schematics?
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2017, 02:24:47 pm »
KO4BB has them in their expansive library: http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals

The one I was concerned with is the 6GHz extension board, and at least that manual has a full schematic.
 

Offline sorenkir

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Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2017, 10:16:16 pm »
Yeah, that was quick to come up in google searches and was the first to point me towards the schematics.  Cracked open the 6G board's shielding today and the construction is surprisingly quite different than the IQMOD board shown in that thread, it looks substantially more modern.



The module itself was pretty tarnished, and there's some on the inside that almost looks like burns, but it seems to be just where air could get in (extra dark around the connector and the adjustment pots).  Tons of T8 torx screws to open it, then several regular phillips around the power module to get the back (front, but not where the torx bolts are) off of the board.




Speaking of the power module, it's a good example of RF voodoo and is the final stage before the output (final amplifier in the gold package, RF switches are the small dark dies on the left, detector comes out the top).


Now what I was after was this general section of the schematic:


Specifically, I'm wondering if N29 is working properly, or D2 (via N32 is the DAC that drives the upper input line).  But with some more pouring over the schematic and the results of my initial testing, they actually may both be operating correctly (and I've found no visible damage), more on that after pics.


Right on the back side of the power module is this collection of chips, N29 is the brightly silkscreened one on the bottom and D9 is the bigger chip just above it.  The other AD744 in the upper right is part of the detector circuit and the leads from the power module go through the board right on that side.


On the top side, slightly to the right of that picture (left in this perspective) is D2 which drives the set level.  You can also see the leads coming from the final stage detector and the two adjustment pots, RF DC Zero, and Detector Offset, which make sure the analog level of the detector linearization circuit are correct before summing with the DAC output and driving the ALC input.

Though those were my targets going in, I'm beginning to convince myself that both N29 and D2 are operating correctly.  The level scaled properly with the selected level, and while some of that is attenuators, it would should not have been as nicely scaled if the DAC was dead or malfunctioning.  The fact is also that the N29 amp reports that it's working properly (well, not it, but the stuff monitoring it) when modulating the signal with an external low frequency source, when a different element of D9 is switched in.  So my current theory is either there's something wrong with D9 doing the switching, something wrong with the resistor that the ALC_ON bit switches in (seems unlikely), or something wrong with the detector circuit.  It could be that there's some oscillation or other instability in the detector circuit output that is being smoothed out sufficiently when the AMSLOW_ON bit is enabled, but when that cap isn't switched in, the output of that line is too noisy to maintain a stable level.

Regardless of what's going on, looking at the board didn't show any obvious soldering issues or burned out components, so I think the next step is putting some mod wires in to monitor the supply and signal levels for these chips and running the board topless in the frame  :-[


I also took out the fan to have a look, it's a Papst Multifan 4312/1 (32mm thick, not standard 25mm), rated for 100CFM and something like 43dB noise, but which clicks slightly when manually spun... I think this one is wearing down.  I looked for a good replacement, but most PC fans that are designed with silence in mind top out around 70CFM.  Since it did run a bit warm I didn't feel comfortable going that route, so I ended up buying a Scythe Slipstream branded one advertising 110CFM and 37dB.  If it sounds loud, I may whack in a couple ohms of resistance for the sake of quiet.  Will have to rework the connector, though, the original uses 3 pins of a 4 pin header connector that's a good bit larger than your normal 0.100"/2.54mm header.
 

Offline eb4eqa

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 01:19:42 pm »
Hi DaJMasta,

I've repaired two SMIQs with that same error and the problem(s) were always caused by either RF amplifier(s) (MMIC or final FET) and RF switches (old Hittite parts). It seems R&S decided to drive the control voltajes a bit harder to improve isolation between ports, which has an impact on the part's life. I replaced them with something similar and modified the resistor networks to trim the control voltajes down to safer levels. I believe I have some of those parts still somewhere...

You'll need to follow the signal path (Shariar are you listening?? :-DD), which means running the module without cover and out of the instrument. So you will need to devise some kind of extension kit. I believe you will be entertained for some time :)

Regards,
Roberto EB4EQA
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2017, 05:19:02 am »
If it comes to that, I may actually have a reasonable solution.  Though the connector has two rows of pins, only one is populated, so using basic 0.1" header cables would be sufficient, then I've got SMAs for the output connections... would just need something for the LO connections, are they SMPs?  The little snap size, but not the really really small ones you get on wireless cards.

Anyways, it's progressed a bit, and while it's still obvious something's going wrong, I feel like I'm not confident enough as to what as to order a part yet.  Also interesting is that I figured out what that tarnish was.... I actually sort of knew from first glance, but I expected milled aluminum shielding, so I dismissed it.  They shield blocks are silver plated, probably magnesium alloy.  The tarnish is the exact same color as silver tarnish and silver tarnish comes from air exposure.  It's also an extremely bright looking metal, notably lighter in color than some milled aluminum i had near me and it has a sort of distinctive look, looking at an unpolished silver plated cavity always looks especially bright to me (and I've actually seen it dealing with musical instruments).  Anyways, the LCD and front panel are also a distinct module with a fan in back... and the fan is close to the two holes for the adjustment pots, explaining the more significant tarnish.

On the note of the fans, I tried disconnecting the main one to see if replacing it would quiet things down, and the two others are much quieter so it should help, but instead of throwing an error, when it doesn't sense the fan it just turns off partway through booting and can't be turned on again until several seconds with the main power off.  A little surprising, and since the new fan is 1000rpm slower or so, I hope it doesn't end up being a problem when installed.



As for the actual testing, I hooked up some mod wires and put the card back in nude.  The board flexes more than I expected, mostly because the fitting is tight, and when I got it hooked up.... it was unhappy.  A new error cropped up when restarting it, a 2.4GHz LO unlock error on an entirely different board.  My thought was that the lack of shielding between different inputs picked up so much noise that it was going back through the LO cables and messing with the PLL on the other board.  Thankfully after returning the RF side shielding, the error is gone.



Checking the wires I had put on, the voltages on the ALC amp were fine, the DAC worked fine (nice little steps that reset with every attenuator click), and there was definitely signal on the detector output.  The ALC output was a bit tricky to figure out, and thanks to the LO error, the frequency was roughly 1GHz over what it was set to and 10dB down from where it would have been... so I figured I would replace part of the shielding, pick a few other spots, and try for better data with another one.



So I took the card out, reworked the mod wire placement (watching the inverting input, the output of N29, and the control lines for D9), and stuck half the shield on.  The screws around the power module mostly go in without the other half, but none of the others, and I needed more structural support to feel comfortable sliding it in again... so I went through my little screws and got about a third of them redone just on the board - trying not to torque it down too hard and using washers, I would have preferred nylon washers to be sure not to mar the gold, but I didn't have enough.  Anyways, it worked well, slid in better, and gave me a much better test (no more LO error).

I found the switches to be switching properly (though I'm still not 100% as to what KLEMM does is for, it just seems to bias the input towards 10V and switching ALC modes doesn't change the bit), and in certain stages the amp seems to work just fine... but then sometimes it just slams to the upper rail regardless of the detector input, which should always be influencing the ALC.  It defaults to sample and hold mode for the ALC, which works fine in modulation mode but looks horrific in normal mode.  Since it actually looks wonky in AM mode but the output is fine... it makes me wonder.



Then moving to the table mode (which isn't properly set because it fails the table learning self-calibration), the output locks high in standard mode despite the detector going crazy (an amp not performing well enough or intermittently?), but then you switch to modulation and the whole thing seems to be fine.





So I'm going to take a bit to think things through again and read the schematic over again.  I found that this circuit doesn't actually drive the final stage amp, that one seems to be fixed, but it does drive RFAMP20 and 21 (a fet and an IC rated to 3.3V and 6GHz operating at 3.4V and up to 6.4GHz.....).  I was thinking maybe the opamp making up the ALC isn't able to source enough current to operate the stages in some situations... but even if the gate was shorting out in the transistors that it runs, there would still be like 4.5k worth of resistance to get through the gate on either V_AMOD channel and the positive/negative voltage source they control do work in at least some situations.  This is the circuit that converts the V_AMOD output to a bias voltage for the RF amps in the signal path.



I was looking to see if some of these parts could still be sourced, and it seems like most of them still can, but even things like the final stage output amp are rated under the spec of the instrument - the bare die is rated to 6.5GHz, but the packaged version used is only rated to 6GHz...  then those 3.3V 6GHz amps are used repeatedly at 3.4V according to the schematic.  I don't know if parts with that performance were just real hard to come by around the turn of the millennia or if they were trying to keep the price down, but seems like strange choices to me.
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 05:25:08 am »
Oh, it's also worth noting to anyone trying to diagnose an SMIQ - take advantage of the built in Test Points hidden away in the utilities menu.  The manuals list what number corresponds to what and what generally acceptable values.  It's not incredibly comprehensive, but it gives you access to a good number of test points without any removing of shields or probing, which is quite convenient.  It also seems like the adjustment pots for the detector are meant to be tweaked from the front of the unit - you remove the display module and it's a straight shot with a screwdriver.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 05:51:29 pm »
There is also a Debug menu at Level 2/3 that is handy
I have the Same Level Error you do and turning on debug and also continue on error showed that for mine the 3.3Ghz-4.2Ghz range got the error below 3.3Ghz and 4.2Ghz up do not get the level preset error on mine.

FWIW, I'm cleaning up the Service Manual for the 6Ghz Ext and will share when its done.   mostly combining the schematics into single pages instead of the 3 scans for one page.  also resizing them to 11x17 which I think based on the scans they where originally.  its' tedious work but not hard work to clean one of these up.

Look forward to more of your postings on it

Sandra
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Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 07:39:43 pm »
Hmm, well I've tried the passwords in that other thread (seems to match the first chapter of the service manual, though they mention something about passwords being written that are instrument specific and require external hardware to read?), and maybe I'm entering them wrong, but they don't seem to be taking... even the level 1 123456.

Just to check the procedure... you select "Off" from the menu and it auto-advances to the password number, you enter it, and then you hit "Return", right?  Every time I do it, it doesn't throw an error, but it doesn't unlock the level.  I'm wondering if maybe there was a recalibration or servicing at some point that's changed it, but I really wouldn't have expected the level 1 password to be different, at least.

Sounds like your error has something to do with that lowest frequency band on the board, at least from the overview description and the block diagram, but good luck with your repair!  Dividing 3.1GHz into 4 sections and switching filters before mixing seems overly complicated to me, but I'm sure to reach their performance targets and within their budget/space/electrical constraints, they made a good call.

Combining the sheets would be a helpful fix for the manual - there's enough overlap to be usable, but it would be much easier to trace paths and much faster to scroll through if they were stitched!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 07:42:24 pm by DaJMasta »
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 07:58:54 pm »
Here's what I have and works for the L1-L3 passwords for my unit and another SMIQ03 i know of
L1-123456
L2-250751
L3-120155
these are in the util/protect menu

There is also a factory password and feature passwords in the install menu,  those are unit specific.  far as I can guess serial num / feature specific.

I'm almost done with the hard editing of the schematics, only 7 more to go plus the board layouts
Sandra
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Offline rastro

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2017, 08:34:46 pm »
These 3 passwords also work on my SMIQ06 and an SMIQ04 I no longer own.
-rastro
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2017, 09:13:56 pm »
Could it be something simple like the detector diode being broken?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2017, 09:35:44 pm »
I don't think it's the detector, it's the light blue trace on the scope in the last few pics, as it seems to respond differently with different frequencies and steps according to adjusting the output level.  While it could be overall low or something, I don't think it's inconsistent, and I don't have a good way of checking if it's just out of normal range - but unless it's way, way out of normal range, I don't think you'd see the erratic ALC response - you'd just see the right sort of movement in the output, but at a level not enough or too much to adjust the output correctly.


And I sent R&S an email regarding the passwords - there could be some jumper blocking unlocking them or maybe they were reset at some point - since the 6GHz board has a warranty service sticker on it from R&S, they could even know about it if it was changed.  I go to switch the password off, but after entering the passwords it just goes back out without unlocking, and trying the calibrate all option from the menu says that level 1 still needs to be unlocked.  We'll see.  I may not need whatever info is in there in the end, but it would be nice to have it to be sure.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2017, 11:51:50 pm »
I've had a hard time uploading my editing Manual.  it got quite large with the 11x17 pages @ 600 DPI to maintain quality of the images. it's 94Mb.

In the mean time here's a sample of the block diagram's
sampled down to 200DPI to allow upload to eevblog


edit:  i'm uploading back to KO4BB site where I got it from assuming it uploads ok
will post link when it's ready
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 12:01:44 am by smgvbest »
Sandra
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2017, 05:53:00 pm »
I don't think it's the detector, it's the light blue trace on the scope in the last few pics, as it seems to respond differently with different frequencies and steps according to adjusting the output level.  While it could be overall low or something, I don't think it's inconsistent, and I don't have a good way of checking if it's just out of normal range
I had a similar problem with an HP generator (ESG-A) series and (after tracing the circuit for a long time) that turned out to be the detector diode. Fortunately there was another diode on the board from which only half was used so it was a simple swap to try. But with a full service manual available you should be able to get the part number for a replacement.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2017, 06:43:33 am »
I'll keep that in mind, but honestly, I hope it isn't that.  I believe you can see the detector diode(s?) in the "power module" in the first post.  They're built into the hybrid and capacitively coupled from the output of the final amp stage before the switches.  I don't think I would be able to replace them myself.

Those big schematics will be helpful!  It looks well stitched and is already easier to follow things.


I did some more testing to try to clarify exactly what was going on... I haven't really done the right analysis yet, but I think I'll be able to come up with something.  I also got the replacement fan in - not totally silent or anything, but much, much quieter.  Also tried wiring it into the SMIQ and it seems pleased with the RPM signal, it should be a great replacement, just need to get the connector grafted to the new fan.

Anyways, I tried several ALC settings as well as several modulation types and different depths for the AM option.  While testing them, I monitored all the control lines of D9 to see what part was being enabled, and the ALC amp's output.  I then went back and did some testing monitoring the input at the negative feedback terminal and the output pin... and the results are certainly something.


With the ALC set to OFF and without modulation:
Only the AMSLOW_ON bit was high and the output, the inverting input is low, the output is "low" at a steady 5.8V.

ALC is ON or AUTO with either sample and hold or table mode, no modulation:
ALC_ON and AMSLOW_ON is high, input is about -200mV but reacts to output frequency settings, output is locked high at 14.3V.  The odd thing is that occasionally, there is a glitch where the output drops below high, and this often triggers instability in the input, staying mostly where it normally is, but jumping up to 0V in very short, intermittent bursts.  ALC error is present on screen

ALC is ON or AUTO and modulation is enabled (AM, Vector, Digital):
ALC_ON is high but AMSLOW_ON is low.  Input is locked at 0V until you go over 22% AM depth or so, then it oscillates negative with the AM frequency.  Output sometimes follows AM depth, with higher peaks with more depth, but intermittently compresses or expands to full scale (positive side only) and oscillates at the AM frequency.  Lower AM depths make this peaking less likely to happen (though it goes to ground more) and the peaking does not correlate with changes on the input.  No ALC error on screen (though judging by this, the output is not healthy).  Output voltage goes from about 2V to about 12V and even with AM depth at 0%, there is still some dropping to zero intermittently on the output voltage, though it tracks with changing frequency.  In sample and hold mode the dynamic range of the voltage output is slightly less.

It's quite a set of results.  I'm going to run through the schematics again to see what I can find, but I really think this is pointing to a problem with the opamp N29 - the instability even when the input signal is stable is real strange and the output being locked high while the input seems shorted somehow also seem like the surrounding stuff just wouldn't cause it... but I want to be sure, a replacement is like a $10 chip  ;D

I also heard back from R&S customer service regarding the passwords.... they didn't have any ideas.  They told me if the passwords in the service manual weren't working, it would need to be sent in for service for it to be corrected.  I'll have a look through some of the other control boards.... maybe the short one at the end with no RF connectors and the front panel in particular, and see if I can find a password reset jumper or something... would be nice to have the extra data.

I keep finding fascinating details about the design though, I wasn't 100% on how the board incorporated AM modulation into the level control circuit... but it does it through the DAC.  The AM input gets fed into a buffer amp that is switched in as the voltage reference on the DAC, which makes its synthesized analog output vary with the AM signal on the voltage reference - clever!


EDIT:  A note on the second to last bit, I'm an idiot  |O

The x1/dBm key is also an enter key which seems to be used for very little?  That was the one that needed to be pressed after the password.  Level 1 is unlocked fine now, I must have tried almost every key on the front panel aside from those... maybe because they were partially shaded by scope probes.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 07:02:22 am by DaJMasta »
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2017, 11:23:53 pm »
The cleaned up manual is waiting to be moved over at ko4bb so is still not accessable there
I got it uploaded to a spot not prefered on my server but it's there.  let me know if you have any feedback.

http://kbobs.org/images/Rohde_Schwarz_SMIQ_6_GHz_Extension_Service_Manual_Clean.pdf

I have done some additional cleaning up and once I rebuild the pdf i'll replace the file above and at ko4bb's site

Sandra
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Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2017, 05:25:09 am »
Looks great!  Fits a widescreen monitor pretty well and those digital sections and the component layout right at the end really, really benefit from it.


In my own little world, I've made a purchase!  I still think that behavior around the opamp is really suspect, so I've ordered an AD744 and because the locked high output on certain settings could potentially be caused by some sort of short in D9, I ordered a DG413 as well.

Because they were inexpensive and hooked into the same thing, I ordered the two transistors used in the V_AMOD bias supply generation circuits, the BC857s and the BC850B.  Then while I wanted to cover all my bases, I wanted to pick up an SHF0186 and an MGA82563, but the SHF jfet didn't have an obvious replacement on digikey, so I just picked up the MGA part.  I don't expect that either is really the issue.... but I also sort of wanted to play with a couple RF amps and I don't mind dropping a couple bucks on one good to 6GHz.

I also grafted the new fan and got it fitted in the chassis, for whatever reason, the M3 nuts for the screws were glued to the old one, but I had some spares that I could use, and it is very much less noisy.  I'll get another reading with the SPL meter when the chassis goes back on, but it's now back around the level of my (fan modded) DS4024, and well under my cheap benchtop PSU.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2017, 01:01:51 am »
glad they help.
there is a newer version at the same link it you want it.  its now fully searchable even in the schematics and smaller file.

now to really get to work on my SMIQ06B,  i'm getting the 180 Cal Fail in Level Preset on mine so different than yours
I would love to know though what another SMIQ06B users has as 4.25Ghz for all the 2400-24015 test points for a reference.
I know one thing what would be great to add to the service manual is all the Test Points for Preset and at each of the 6Ghz levels
so at 3.3Ghz, 4.2Ghz, 5.2Ghz and 6Ghz levels but it's allot to ask.  but would be great to see what a working one has as reference

Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2017, 10:00:40 am »
Just tagging myself in on this thread, if anyone turns up a source for the SHF0186 parts, I'd be interested as I think I need a couple for an Aeroflex sig gen.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2017, 09:06:13 pm »
is this it?
http://www.americaii.com/en/home/Parts-Search-Results?searchtext=SHF0186K
they say they have stock, but you have a do a RFQ so don't know how expensive it is.
Sandra
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Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2017, 10:04:55 pm »
From the description it looks not... but from the data sheet... they look nearly identical.  The K part is named only to 4GHz, but it seems to be within 0.1dB of gain in the four listed frequencies on the second page and the graphs of gain vs. frequency and the s parameters seem to basically match, so it would probably do the job.

Taking a glance around, there does seem to be some stock lurking somewhere in Hong Kong - there's a site listing several places with some stock, though it's all the same submitting a query for a quote sort of thing.  I also see someone mentioning replacing it with a Mini Circuits ERA-6+ and a dropper resistor for voltage.... but honestly it doesn't seem like a good match or that it would even necessarily do the job, it's also only characterized out until 4GHz in the spec sheets.


I wouldn't at all be surprised if there were a very similar chip out there - similar supply, gain, and bandwidth... but I both don't have enough experience with the parts to really know what needs to match and don't have enough understanding of the circuits they're used in to know whether a different replacement would be driven correctly.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2017, 10:10:53 am »
FWIW, I've been looking, on and off, for a while now, I've got an Aeroflex 3413 sig gen here that I think needs them, there's a thread I started about the transistors and supply as well as some discussion about substitution here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/unobtanium-transistors/

I'm very interested in the idea that it may be possible to replace them with an ERA-6+ so if you have a link/reference?
 

Offline DaJMastaTopic starter

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Re: Rohde & Schwarz SMIQ06B repair log - 6GHz board ALC error
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2017, 03:13:32 pm »
https://www.mail-archive.com/repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com/msg46718.html

That's where I saw it, and while the description of the part and the unit match up.... I still think the part's characteristics bear little resemblance to the SHF0186.  Maybe that's sufficient, though, and changes in phase and whatnot don't count for anything in this application.
 


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