Author Topic: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?  (Read 51722 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fubar.gr

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
  • Country: gr
    • Fubar.gr
After having watched some of Louis Rossmann's repair videos, it seems like he's adding tons of liquid flux on whatever part he's repairing as a mater of course.

See for example on this video:

From 8:30 to 15:00 he adds flux like 5 times on the same spot, all over the place, then again at 19:00 he adds more flux and reheats with the soldering iron what looks like a perfectly soldered part.


Is there some valid reason for going overboard with the application of flux?

Offline kripton2035

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1938
  • Country: fr
    • kripton2035 schematics repository
just subscribing ... ;)

Offline Deathwish

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
  • Country: wales
Works for Louis, good enough. I think he's funny as hell and tells it like it really is.
Electrons are typically male, always looking for any hole to get into.
trying to strangle someone who talks out of their rectal cavity will fail, they can still breath.
God hates North Wales, he has put my home address on the blacklist of all couriers with instructions to divert all parcels.
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3059
  • Country: us
Flux reduces oxidation on pins and pads and enables solder to flow onto them to make connections, and it also conducts heat. But when it has been heated for a long time, it dries out and doesn't work any more. If you are reworking a difficult component you may need multiple applications.
At 19:00 he uses the soldering iron to give the joints a proper fillet, which was not present from hot air placement. Like the narration says, "perfectionism".
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Is there some valid reason for going overboard with the application of flux?
No looks to me he does not have a small enough applicator tip for the flux. Just a standard one you would use on THC's.
I have about 3 different flux bottles with all kinds of small tips, needles, and brushes.
The problem is flux usually flows as mad all over the place, so a very tiny drop is enough.
On the other hand, you have to clean it up anyway at least if you want it too look nice, so who cares.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12147
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
you can never have too much flux
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline KL27x

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Country: us
^ I keep hearing this, and I take it to heart. But I don't like any of the noclean fluxes I have tried. They are great, until you actually ever want to clean the board. Add alcohol, and watch the transparent "polymer" residue turn into schegma. Most of the time I don't clean off the residue, and I still can't stand this.

This maybe the reason the only flux that is mil-spec is rosin flux?

I would really like to find a rosin flux like what Indium uses in their solder. They say it's a purified rosin flux. It leaves something like regular rosin flux residue, but with a lot of the yellow/brown color removed. I'm using regular liquid RA, and lots of it. My bevel tip is normally operating with a crust of brown flux residue around the sides.

Quote
then again at 19:00 he adds more flux and reheats with the soldering iron what looks like a perfectly soldered part.
He even says this is not necessary while he's doing it. And it might look the same. But I can see why he might have done it. He flowed flux core solder onto the pads with an iron, using up some of the flux. Then he reflowed with hot air. So the solder could be a little bit crusty, theoretically. If he were doing a leadless IC like that, he probably would have added more flux BEFORE reflowing. He might have felt like something was missing, after the fact. :)

FTR, I am definitely not a perfectionist. Most of my SMD joints would make you laugh. Straightness doesn't matter, and anything from a concave filet to a grossly spherical bead is fine, so long as it's shiny and obviously flowed to both the lead and the pad. IME, you don't need a perfectly controlled amount of solder to be able to see that.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2015, 09:01:16 pm by KL27x »
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
I have to hand it to him, you do get warts and all. I can't imagine working with him though, if I had that kind of running commentary in the lab throughout the day it'd drive me nuts. No surprise he comes from NYC!

As a recommendation, a decent tweezer iron and some component kits are supremely useful.

I use stripped wire wrap (Kynar) wire for the type of PCB hack he did: with the wire he used you really need to tin it first to ensure it's stripped to melt the insulation off, not a big deal but it's an extra step. The insulation also can be quite noxious, but it didn't stop me when I was younger, I made many thousands of connections on stripboard with that stuff. The wire wrap wire is also silver coated so there's no problem with it tinning immediately.

The connector looked like it was contaminated either with oxidisation or grease, but he's right that trying to solder one pin at a time is generally a waste of time: just one at each end to get the connector initially placed then drag solder it and get the wick out.

Regarding the amount of flux, it's cheap I guess!

One thing is true though, we all have our own ways of doing rework like this. Ask three different people, you'll get different answers. Many rework methods are quite individual.

The best thing his videos show is that as long as you have enough bravado confidence, you can fix anything in SMD, and for that he's to be applauded.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
After having watched some of Louis Rossmann's repair videos, it seems like he's adding tons of liquid flux on whatever part he's repairing as a mater of course.

Yep, common technique.
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
you can never have too much flux
this!

fubar.gr its normal to ask that question if you never used good flux :) you gain 2 levels of soldering skill with one drop of the good stuff, just like drugs :-DD. This is one of the well known secrets of working with smd, and why so many amateurs are scared of qfn and other small/weird packages.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 04:53:12 am »
It's a bit deceiving under the microscope, what looks like a ton of flux may be the size of matchstick head. Of course if you haven't repaired anything before this all looks like rocket science.

But I personally can't stand nutjob banter in any form, I've met so many idiots talking BS before, now I just switch off when they open their mouth or start repeating themselves.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2015, 09:25:17 am »
you can never have too much flux
There is always a maximum,  come'on, you can not solder normally if you have a cm of flux on top of the component.
IMO the blogger uses an excessive amount of flux in this video due to the large application tip/needle he uses, half of what he uses would still be more then enough to get the job done properly.

 

Offline DimitriP

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1132
  • Country: us
  • "Best practices" are best not practiced.© Dimitri
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 10:02:01 am »
Naahhh...too painful to watch. Neeeext
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline senso

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • Country: pt
    • My AVR tutorials
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2015, 10:18:53 am »
It's a bit deceiving under the microscope, what looks like a ton of flux may be the size of matchstick head. Of course if you haven't repaired anything before this all looks like rocket science.

But I personally can't stand nutjob banter in any form, I've met so many idiots talking BS before, now I just switch off when they open their mouth or start repeating themselves.

You should really, really watch is videos about why reballing and BGA rework in general is the evil himself..
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece, some of his soldering is a bit awfull, but its a good bed time rant to start sleeping.
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2015, 02:37:37 pm »
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece

In monetary terms, and in terms of using salvaged parts, that's not dissimilar to taking a car into the repair shop to fix a ding. I may be living on a different planet, but I don't think $350 for a specialised repair such as this is that bad. I wonder how many times it is just a resistor or chip replacement and how often it ends up being something more. Plus he's warranting the repair. I am sure he has to maintain a reasonable stock of spares in stock too to provide a quick tunraround undoubtedly demanded by the locale, and I'm very sure the rent there ain't cheap.  I am sure he's saved the butts of many a clumsy hipster who's dumped their decaf skinny latte over their shiny $3k Macbook Pro!
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2015, 03:37:40 pm »
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece

In monetary terms, and in terms of using salvaged parts, that's not dissimilar to taking a car into the repair shop to fix a ding. I may be living on a different planet, but I don't think $350 for a specialised repair such as this is that bad.

Secondhand zero ohm resistor soldered to your cars body. Fixed!
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 607
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2015, 04:04:58 pm »
It's a bit deceiving under the microscope, what looks like a ton of flux may be the size of matchstick head. Of course if you haven't repaired anything before this all looks like rocket science.

But I personally can't stand nutjob banter in any form, I've met so many idiots talking BS before, now I just switch off when they open their mouth or start repeating themselves.

You should really, really watch is videos about why reballing and BGA rework in general is the evil himself..
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece, some of his soldering is a bit awfull, but its a good bed time rant to start sleeping.

With repair work are within your right to charge what it's worth to the customer not what it cost you. Don't forget about the times you get sucked into a black hole time warp on a repair whereby the fix seems just round the corner but you spend 10 hours over what its worth, or better still when you fail completely and can only ask the customer a fraction of what you should for your time.

 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2015, 05:28:56 pm »
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece

In monetary terms, and in terms of using salvaged parts, that's not dissimilar to taking a car into the repair shop to fix a ding. I may be living on a different planet, but I don't think $350 for a specialised repair such as this is that bad.

Secondhand zero ohm resistor soldered to your cars body. Fixed!

But it wasn't fixed with just a zero ohm resistor, there was a specific high density connector that you won't get in rat shack, you'll need a stock of those, along with all those other parts. The point is, you have to make an estimate based on what it might cost. How are you to know if it's a zero ohm resistor, a re-seat of a connector, or a board replacement without actually performing the repair? Admittedly a few you'll win real easy, but most probably not. And if it had just been a zero ohm resistor, I'd have darned well wanted to know why that zero ohm resistor failed in the first place. And if someone's already had a go on the board, you never know what you're going to be left with.

Plus, as I mentioned, there's the cost of rent and other fixed costs and overheads. If you've never run a business, it's all too easy just to look at BOM costs and nothing else. Offering a same day service like this is not going to be cheap. And then there's the cost of the flux of course ;-)
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2015, 06:11:06 pm »
Thread is getting a little ridiculous, bookaboo is charging me a days labor on some other customers repair and Howardlong is charging me for a special high density connector for a resistor.

I'm starting to think I should have repaired it myself.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2015, 07:31:34 pm »
Thread is getting a little ridiculous, bookaboo is charging me a days labor on some other customers repair and Howardlong is charging me for a special high density connector for a resistor.

I'm starting to think I should have repaired it myself.

 :-DD

Good call!
 

Offline Fat

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2015, 08:58:54 pm »
Yeah, he uses a lot of flux. Most videos he notes that he put too much on, but he's working by the piece and speed is everything.  I can't imaging the NYC rent he has to pay. He will flux, solder and add more flux. Makes me crazy that he's not cleaning it off between steps.  He goes a mile a minute and likes to rant, but that makes it interesting to me.

He's also here on the forum, under another name which I can't recall.

Fat
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2015, 09:43:24 pm »
Flux is your friend when working on already overheated small pads.

Like some of the better things in life rework sometimes needs to be messy.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline JoeO

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: us
  • I admit to being deplorable
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2015, 09:44:21 pm »
It's a bit deceiving under the microscope, what looks like a ton of flux may be the size of matchstick head. Of course if you haven't repaired anything before this all looks like rocket science.

But I personally can't stand nutjob banter in any form, I've met so many idiots talking BS before, now I just switch off when they open their mouth or start repeating themselves.

You should really, really watch is videos about why reballing and BGA rework in general is the evil himself..
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece, some of his soldering is a bit awfull, but its a good bed time rant to start sleeping.
No one is forcing customers to go to his shop. 
They can always buy new laptop or send it to apple to get it fixed for a lot more than he charges.
The day Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears on Earth.
Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2015, 10:21:37 pm »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2015, 10:34:57 pm »
There is always a maximum,  come'on, you can not solder normally if you have a cm of flux on top of the component.

reductio ad absurdum

IMO the blogger uses an excessive amount of flux in this video due to the large application tip/needle he uses, half of what he uses would still be more then enough to get the job done properly.

do you even microscope bro? this is apple, when you see resistors in the picture they are most likely 0201  :palm:
plus cleaning will remove any residue anyway, so why bother spending extra time pipetting "just enough"?

c4757p why ad hominem? just because someone is not like your favorite dewdiepie?

edit: most critique to Louis repair videos comes from _non-practitioning_ theoretical EEs that just know better because they read somewhere all about 'best practices' :)
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 10:48:01 pm by Rasz »
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2015, 10:41:36 pm »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O

Having done repair for people most of my adult life, and having to deal with people who really shouldn't own tools attempting to "fix" stuff I can relate.
There are even "Technicians" who shouldn't be allowed to be in the same room with a soldering iron.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2015, 10:45:05 pm »
c4757p why ad hominem? just because someone is not like your favorite dewdiepie?

Uh, no, because he's throwing around insults like "moron" at a rate of approximately 0.5 Hz.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2015, 10:49:18 pm »
c4757p why ad hominem? just because someone is not like your favorite dewdiepie?

Uh, no, because he's throwing around insults like "moron" at a rate of approximately 0.5 Hz.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.

He does good work, I wouldn't care about his disposition.
But face it; without troubleshooting reheating a BGA part just because you "think  :-DD " is stupid on any level.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2015, 10:51:39 pm »
Uh, no, because he's throwing around insults like "moron" at a rate of approximately 0.5 Hz.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.

ah, so its a PC thing, we wouldnt want anyone get offended by our mere presence. Personally I prefer honest people.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 10:53:54 pm by Rasz »
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2015, 10:54:20 pm »
I prefer people who can be simultaneously honest and pleasant - a group of people I like to call "not dicks".
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2015, 11:25:47 pm »
Uh, no, because he's throwing around insults like "moron" at a rate of approximately 0.5 Hz.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.

ah, so its a PC thing, we wouldnt want anyone get offended by our mere presence. Personally I prefer honest people.


That is proof right there; it is a good time to be Old.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2015, 11:50:00 pm »
I think he really stretches his videos out a bit and likes the sound of his own voice, but he's from frikkin' New York - what can you expect?  :-//

...and for those whinging about his service prices, he's in Manhattan! He has a tiny shop to work in that probably costs over $1 meeelion dollars a year in rent. It's a drop in shop for city yuppies and banksters who know how to screw the bottom dollar out of everything and don't take their stuff to Apple unless it's on their companies support contract.

He employs staff. He has to earn a living.  :palm:

The best bit is you don't have to fly to Manhattan and ask him to repair your shit for you either!  :-+ Just DIY or find someone local to do it - or pay Apple.
 

Offline DimitriP

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1132
  • Country: us
  • "Best practices" are best not practiced.© Dimitri
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2015, 12:44:36 am »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O

I could only stand it for a few minutes...and I had the sound off!!!

   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2015, 02:05:38 am »
I wish the CoRE (Center of Repair Engineering) guys spoke English I think that would make for some interesting viewing. There is also an Indonesian mobile guy who has mad repair skills can't remember the channel name off the top of my head.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline john_p_wi

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2015, 02:08:56 am »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O

I could only stand it for a few minutes...and I had the sound off!!!

Been in industry for 30 years, what I have learned are guys who talk like that generally have great chops and are very confident in their skills.  Those who don't like it, are in academia...
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2015, 02:37:48 am »
Then you fall for it an awful lot. Calling everyone around you a moron is a great way to make the uninformed think you're smart. Sure, some smart people do it too, but I've encountered a great many fools who have learned that particular technique to make even bigger fools believe in them.

As for confidence in your skills - that doesn't mean anything. The person who took a heatgun to this thing in the first place could have been quite confident that it would work.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline DimitriP

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1132
  • Country: us
  • "Best practices" are best not practiced.© Dimitri
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2015, 03:15:37 am »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O

I could only stand it for a few minutes...and I had the sound off!!!

Been in industry for 30 years, what I have learned are guys who talk like that generally have great chops and are very confident in their skills.  Those who don't like it, are in academia...

Like I said, I had the sound off. I watched him work...that was enough for me.

As for people with no "bedside manner"....it's just like with doctors; Just because some great doctors have horrible bedside manner, it doesn't make everyone with a bad bedside manner a great doctor.


   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline DimitriP

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1132
  • Country: us
  • "Best practices" are best not practiced.© Dimitri
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2015, 03:17:44 am »
...
As for confidence in your skills - that doesn't mean anything. The person who took a heatgun to this thing in the first place could have been quite confident that it would work.

There are two types kinds of people confident in their own skills.
The skilled and the delusional. They make pills for the latter :)
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline john_p_wi

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 03:20:36 am »
Nope, don't fall for it.  As an educated, schooled, engineer, I have been fortunate to be surrounded by other highly educated engineers and techs for many years- including working for international medical, manufacturing and high tech companies.  Generally, as stated above, it has been my experience that the techs who are confident and who talk the talk in industry have mad skills.  The bull shitters are quickly exposed for what they lack, in what we call a "baptism by fire" moment, and are given the opportunity to seek employment somewhere else. 

Honestly, the video was representative of the culture of the American youth today.  Spend anytime on the manufacturing floor (I worked in a supervisory position at a facility with 1600 people) and one will have to quickly learn to read people to survive.  Yes, it is very far from the reserved environment experienced during engineering school and time in research, hence my comments.

'Nuff said.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 03:23:34 am by john_p_wi »
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2015, 04:23:23 am »
...
As for confidence in your skills - that doesn't mean anything. The person who took a heatgun to this thing in the first place could have been quite confident that it would work.

There are two types kinds of people confident in their own skills.
The skilled and the delusional. They make pills for the latter :)

Exactly!
NO Technician worth a damned is going to take a heat gun to something without having isolated the problem to that part.  This is like the idiot two way tech I had to cover for from time to time who when he couldn't fix something would go through and re solder everything and call it fixed. Thank GOD he worked in the field 85% of the time.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2015, 04:29:30 am »
Nope, don't fall for it.  As an educated, schooled, engineer, I have been fortunate to be surrounded by other highly educated engineers and techs for many years- including working for international medical, manufacturing and high tech companies.  Generally, as stated above, it has been my experience that the techs who are confident and who talk the talk in industry have mad skills.  The bull shitters are quickly exposed for what they lack, in what we call a "baptism by fire" moment, and are given the opportunity to seek employment somewhere else. 

Honestly, the video was representative of the culture of the American youth today.  Spend anytime on the manufacturing floor (I worked in a supervisory position at a facility with 1600 people) and one will have to quickly learn to read people to survive.  Yes, it is very far from the reserved environment experienced during engineering school and time in research, hence my comments.

'Nuff said.

While it is true you see less of this in manufacturing, or at least back in the day when I was working on a production floor tuning modifying and testing microwave gear.
However;
When you work in a repair only situation say a two way radio shop you see a lot more of that attitude; if for no other reason than you see the worst of the worst like some idiot who takes a heat gun to a good part to flow solder that is good in the first place.
Been there...
Both places.......
Where it can be worst is in a section of the industry where there is a shortage of trained techs such as anything RF related back in the eighties was...
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Online coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5845
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2015, 04:31:37 am »
As for confidence in your skills - that doesn't mean anything. The person who took a heatgun to this thing in the first place could have been quite confident that it would work.
To quote Russell on the topic “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

I wonder. Are Dunning and Kruger well aware of their own limitations, or only of each other's?
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2015, 05:12:02 am »
Most Techs verbalise freely when working.

The comments by the guy in the video would be normal day to day chatter in any real Electronics Workshop.
It's damn all to do with the "Youth of America"---Aussie Techs were like that in the 1960s!

The only reason it sounds excessive is it is on on a Youtube video.
The comments,particularly,the swearing,would be confined to the work area in most jobs,but if you are to "look over the Tech's shoulder",you get it "warts & all"!

At one time I developed more expertise in fixing Studio Picture Monitors than I had ever desired! ;D

One delight was converging the things.
This had to be done "live"--- looking in a mirror & groping around in the "guts".

After doing our best with the variable controls,to get the convergence as close to perfect as possible,we inserted plastic "wands" with a ferrite or similar tip between the tube neck & deflection yoke & wiggled them around.

This,on some units brought the Tech's hands very close to,& sometimes in contact with non-insulated terminals on that yoke.
It wasn't really dangerous,but it hurt,& I would often be heard saying something like,but not quite exactly,
"Massey-Ferguson!" when this occurred.

As for his work practices:-

They look pretty standard---some people are more fussy with flux use than others.
I use quite a lot,but I tend to clean up between applications.
Use of liquid flux will almost always create a good joint--many times the flux core in solder alone will not be sufficient for this.
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2015, 06:04:29 am »
To quote Russell on the topic “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

That's a great quote but I've always wondered if Russell was riping of Yeats "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."

In any case I can't help but think this guy Rossman is just playing up the brash New Yorker persona a bit to get the youtube views. I think the popular youtubers all need some hook (crazy Australian bloke, etc) and this guy has found his. Sure it will turn off some, but I suspect it will draw in many more.  After all watching someone repair boards would be pretty boring without some kind of eccentric banter.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2015, 06:16:12 am »
In any case I can't help but think this guy Rossman is just playing up the brash New Yorker persona a bit to get the youtube views. I think the popular youtubers all need some hook (crazy Australian bloke, etc) and this guy has found his. Sure it will turn off some, but I suspect it will draw in many more.  After all watching someone repair boards would be pretty boring without some kind of eccentric banter.

It's probably just him, I don't think he's "putting it on". Just like I don't play any "crazy aussie bloke" character, it's just me yapping on camera.
Some things might change a bit when you know you are doing it for an audience, but generally you'll find that the majority of Youtubers are who they appear to be.
 

Online coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5845
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2015, 06:19:48 am »
To quote Russell on the topic “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”
That's a great quote but I've always wondered if Russell was riping of Yeats "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity."
There are good quotes in a similar vein from many points in history, like George Burns' "Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving taxicabs and cutting hair."
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2015, 06:29:42 am »
In any case I can't help but think this guy Rossman is just playing up the brash New Yorker persona a bit to get the youtube views. I think the popular youtubers all need some hook (crazy Australian bloke, etc) and this guy has found his. Sure it will turn off some, but I suspect it will draw in many more.  After all watching someone repair boards would be pretty boring without some kind of eccentric banter.

It's probably just him, I don't think he's "putting it on". Just like I don't play any "crazy aussie bloke" character, it's just me yapping on camera.
Some things might change a bit when you know you are doing it for an audience, but generally you'll find that the majority of Youtubers are who they appear to be.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it it wasn't really " him" - more that he probably recignizes the entertainment value of being the brash New Yorker so just lets it fly a little louder and looser than he might otherwise.

Maybe i'm wrong but i always figured you let a few more "Bob's you uncle" " shorter than a bee's dick" etc, fly than you might in more polite company.

 

Offline lukaq

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: si
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2015, 07:09:52 am »
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece

Plus he's warranting the repair.
Needs to, by law, for 90 days

Offline lukaq

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: si
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2015, 07:17:02 am »
c4757p why ad hominem? just because someone is not like your favorite dewdiepie?

Uh, no, because he's throwing around insults like "moron" at a rate of approximately 0.5 Hz.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.
Good thing about YT is, you don't have to watch it. You can always say never based on what you see on YT, but if he gets the job done and if the thing works for more then just 90 days after repair, why would you care?

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2015, 07:22:08 am »
In any case I can't help but think this guy Rossman is just playing up the brash New Yorker persona a bit to get the youtube views. I think the popular youtubers all need some hook (crazy Australian bloke, etc) and this guy has found his. Sure it will turn off some, but I suspect it will draw in many more.  After all watching someone repair boards would be pretty boring without some kind of eccentric banter.

It's probably just him, I don't think he's "putting it on". Just like I don't play any "crazy aussie bloke" character, it's just me yapping on camera.
Some things might change a bit when you know you are doing it for an audience, but generally you'll find that the majority of Youtubers are who they appear to be.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it it wasn't really " him" - more that he probably recignizes the entertainment value of being the brash New Yorker so just lets it fly a little louder and looser than he might otherwise.

Maybe i'm wrong but i always figured you let a few more "Bob's you uncle" " shorter than a bee's dick" etc, fly than you might in more polite company.

Same with postings.
I wouldn't use "Massey Ferguson" elsewhere,except maybe a vintage tractor forum!! ;D
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2015, 08:34:46 am »
do you even microscope bro? this is apple, when you see resistors in the picture they are most likely 0201  :palm:
plus cleaning will remove any residue anyway, so why bother spending extra time pipetting "just enough"?
Sure I do my soldering under a stereo microscope and yeah I know how small these things are although I stop at 0402 for my own boards.
It is not about "just enough" it is about "enough is enough" and "too much is too much".
Though I am in the minority here obviously since the pro's say you never have enough and probably poor 4 liters of flux on a pcb and wait for 1 hours that it all is gone before the solder will stick, not!
So yeah there is something like too much flux in my opinion. I myself never had the problem of resoldering the same component three to four times as he so greatly demonstrates in his video. Could be due to the recording like Dave has a problem also I am not sure but it just looks messy and gets in the way of application of the solder to the leads, it just will not stick since there seems to be too much flux. When it eventually evaporates for 3/4 it starts to work.
Hey but then this is the real thing, not hobby time hour.
So for instance if I do my own plumbing it takes me at least 10 minutes to carefully loosen a waterjoint. But a pro just bangs with a hammer on that joint till it gets loose, does his thing, checks if it is waterproof and leaves again. In that time I just slowly and carefully have got the joint loose.
So yeah if you consider that time is money it is his job and the customer will never see the end result as long as the product lasts 90 days of warranty who gives a f... then yeah he is sure doing a great job.
And just with IPA you don't get it clean is my experience, it always shows. Who cares as long as it works.
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2015, 08:58:53 am »
So yeah if you consider that time is money it is his job and the customer will never see the end result as long as the product lasts 90 days of warranty who gives a f... then yeah he is sure doing a great job.
And just with IPA you don't get it clean is my experience, it always shows. Who cares as long as it works.

it doesnt show, thats what ultrasonic bath is for. You can tell what part of the board was worked on only by non patinated solder joints/bodges around.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 607
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2015, 09:20:38 am »
Thread is getting a little ridiculous, bookaboo is charging me a days labor on some other customers repair and Howardlong is charging me for a special high density connector for a resistor.

I'm starting to think I should have repaired it myself.

Haha, yep yours was a dry joint but still $350 please. 3 month warranty (on that joint only)  :-DD
Joking aside, repairs are not my main game but I've had experience in industrial repair workshops and $1000+ for a dry joint, loose ribbon cable or something is not uncommon. The big players in those markets will never send you a bill for $60 stating "we sorted that very easily", they charge what it's worth every single time. On the flip side they get the occasional nightmare job where they have to write off an entire day or more of technicians time where an item is eventually found to be BER, in the companies I have seen the customer pays nothing in that case.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2015, 09:43:39 am »
it doesnt show, thats what ultrasonic bath is for. You can tell what part of the board was worked on only by non patinated solder joints/bodges around.
Did you read studies about electronic pcbs and ultrasonic baths? If you are not very carefull and restrict time and power you can do damage to the components solderconnections.


 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2015, 10:59:03 am »
it doesnt show, thats what ultrasonic bath is for. You can tell what part of the board was worked on only by non patinated solder joints/bodges around.
Did you read studies

no, too busy actually fixing shit :D. Like I and others said before, this stuff mostly bothers academic types that never stepped into the trenches.
its a good thing if board doesnt work after ultrasonic, it means you caught imminent failure that would manifest shortly making client annoyed/angry
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline krivx

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2015, 11:02:22 am »
it doesnt show, thats what ultrasonic bath is for. You can tell what part of the board was worked on only by non patinated solder joints/bodges around.
Did you read studies

no, too busy actually fixing shit :D. Like I and others said before, this stuff mostly bothers academic types that never stepped into the trenches.
its a good thing if board doesnt work after ultrasonic, it means you caught imminent failure that would manifest shortly making client annoyed/angry

I think he addresses this in a video. I've only seen a couple but I think one was on his ultrasonic bath use.

I agree that the guy seems very aggressive and angry. Not sure if I would want to work with him, chops or not. Does he have any really good, highly recommended videos? I'm willing to give him a chance if I would learn something but I find I'm just rolling my eyes when he rants.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2015, 11:33:03 am »
I'm willing to give him a chance if I would learn something but I find I'm just rolling my eyes when he rants.

His rants can be fun:
 

Offline funkyant

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 125
  • Country: au
    • YouTube Channel
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2015, 12:38:00 pm »
I have worked alongside a lot of incredibly talented repair techs, that were known to be the best in their field. With a couple of exceptions, almost all of them had this confidence that I always put down to part of the mindset needed to churn through difficult repairs quickly.

You wouldn't want to go into a sports match with the mindset that you could lose, and I've observed this positive (sometimes overly so, and sometimes super annoying) attitude in the best of the best guys.

You don't usually see people with unjustified over confidence out in the field, as they tend to be out of work and too busy commenting on YouTube videos.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2015, 01:19:07 pm »
You don't usually see people with unjustified over confidence out in the field, as they tend to be out of work and too busy commenting on YouTube videos.

 :-DD
 

Offline krivx

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 763
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2015, 03:13:10 pm »
I'm willing to give him a chance if I would learn something but I find I'm just rolling my eyes when he rants.

His rants can be fun:


I've listened to some of his videos while working and liked them actually, I was just put off by one of him talking about fixing someone else's repair and raging about it. Not super interested in tantrums, I would prefer to see him do the repair work :)
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5364
  • Country: ch
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #60 on: November 26, 2015, 01:14:37 am »
After having watched some of Louis Rossmann's repair videos, it seems like he's adding tons of liquid flux on whatever part he's repairing as a mater of course.
I guess he does go overboard with flux, but that's harmless I suppose. But I noticed something else (in this video and others of his): he loves to wipe and scrape with hot solder wick. I thought that was a big no-no?
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #61 on: November 26, 2015, 01:48:01 am »
After having watched some of Louis Rossmann's repair videos, it seems like he's adding tons of liquid flux on whatever part he's repairing as a mater of course.
I guess he does go overboard with flux, but that's harmless I suppose. But I noticed something else (in this video and others of his): he loves to wipe and scrape with hot solder wick. I thought that was a big no-no?

Solder wick is copper,just like the tracks---it doesn't do much harm.
And it is meant to be hot!
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #62 on: November 26, 2015, 01:54:57 am »
as I pro I approve some of his equipment. His techniques in other hand need some more work. It was painful to watch him to desolder those connector pads by wiping!

Blah, he needs to read IPC 7711/21 guidelines again  :popcorn:

Also flux amount is massive. I don't get it why people add a ton of flux everywhere. Well probably I know the reason because youtube guides tell you so. If I do professional work I use flux syringe gun
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 02:00:32 am by FireFlower »
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #63 on: November 26, 2015, 03:03:55 am »
as I pro I approve some of his equipment. His techniques in other hand need some more work. It was painful to watch him to desolder those connector pads by wiping!

Blah, he needs to read IPC 7711/21 guidelines again  :popcorn:

Also flux amount is massive. I don't get it why people add a ton of flux everywhere. Well probably I know the reason because youtube guides tell you so. If I do professional work I use flux syringe gun

If you are referring to him cleaning the track prior to the resistor replacement,yes,that was a bit rough,but if you mean the multi-way connector pads---that's the way most people would do it.

I've found,(& was taught at two separate High Reliability Hand Soldering courses) that of all the desolder methods,de-solder braid is the least likely to thermally overstress the PCB substructure.
It is perilously easy to damage small pads with a desoldering gun.

Most people don't have a flux syringe gun--it's as simple as that!
All the fluxes I've used can be removed with IPA.
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #64 on: November 26, 2015, 03:28:19 am »
It is not about thermal thing killing those pads, if one of the pads accidentally sticks de-solder braid and you pull it might come off and start flipping around. Yeah maybe I have become overprotective at work because QC guys sometimes come nagging about a NC pad missing from 50 pins component or connector so I have been careful not to damage those pads. Yeah kinda pain in the ass when pad comes off and you have to put it back for just looks, nobody likes to reattach those NC pads.

And Syringe gun costs what $10? $30-40 probably with ESD safe plastic. Flux syringe costs $10-20 and lasts at industry level daily use for 6-12 months depending how thin needle head you have.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 03:30:54 am by FireFlower »
 

Offline sleemanj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2561
  • Country: nz
  • Professional tightwad.
    • The electronics hobby components I sell.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2015, 04:23:58 am »
If I do professional work I use flux syringe gun


That looks like it would be really awkward to use personally.   
~~~
EEVBlog Members - get yourself 10% discount off all my electronic components for sale just use the Buy Direct links and use Coupon Code "eevblog" during checkout.  Shipping from New Zealand, international orders welcome :-)
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #66 on: November 26, 2015, 04:44:53 am »
If I do professional work I use flux syringe gun


That looks like it would be really awkward to use personally.

And once you use it you do not want never use pens or other systems. Very ergonomic design and trigger applies just enough force for only a drop to come out.
 

Offline Paul Moir

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 894
  • Country: ca
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #67 on: November 26, 2015, 06:56:48 am »

i think some customers expect repair shops to just "simply" repair, and not consider that 1 failed repair could mean double work for the next shop. to the user, he thinks he is bringing the "original" fault to the "new" shop. maybe he should do a live inspection when a customer brings in repairs so the customer could see for themselves the real mess inside as he explains it clearly, maybe by doing that he could charge additional to repair a failed repair ?

I've seen a few of his videos to improve my rework/repair.  His shop operates on "Flat rate fix", "No fix no pay" and they give a bit of a warranty.  I'd be angry if someone had done something to me that cost me money, which if he had just left well enough alone would have been profitable.  I may not do a rant video, but I would certainly curse them!
 

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 607
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #68 on: November 26, 2015, 08:36:33 am »
Been browsing his videos, while brash there's nothing Ive seen so far that would put me off. Consumer repairs are not my game but I bet there's stuff to be learned here.

Regarding reworking a bodged repairs: Repair techs HATE working on something someone else has attempted to fix as it means either:
a) It's a difficult/impossible fix
b) Previous attempt has made it worse.
In a previous employment I had/have one customer who only ever brought me what they couldn't fix, took me a while to realise what was going on when I noted I never got any easy repairs from them. As I said before you need the easy  5 min jobs to balance out the nightmare marathons.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2015, 09:25:31 am »
It is not about thermal thing killing those pads, if one of the pads accidentally sticks de-solder braid and you pull it might come off and start flipping around. Yeah maybe I have become overprotective at work because QC guys sometimes come nagging about a NC pad missing from 50 pins component or connector so I have been careful not to damage those pads. Yeah kinda pain in the ass when pad comes off and you have to put it back for just looks, nobody likes to reattach those NC pads.

And Syringe gun costs what $10? $30-40 probably with ESD safe plastic. Flux syringe costs $10-20 and lasts at industry level daily use for 6-12 months depending how thin needle head you have.

If you keep the heat at the correct level,the braid won't stick.
I have had it happen,but very few times.

I've only worked in one production  environment-----they were very "gung-ho" about some "Quality Assurance" things,like doing things the same way each time.
The only problem was that they did everything wrong,so they still had inbuilt faults.
It also meant that attempts to reform their processes were doomed to failure.

Repair is a different thing altogether,especially in a TV Studio.

If the Production Dept want 12 Picture Monitors for a show,they want them NOW.
Not good when you can only find  8 good ones,& 4 faulty ones.
You make the things work,& work to specs,even if the Factory would not approve of some of your methods!
 

Online Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9099
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2015, 09:50:11 am »
If you've *ever* worked in the repair trade for just about *anything* mechanical or electronic, you'll have a good deal of sympathy for his attitude, and when it comes to robbing the elephant's graveyard for parts that aren't available in less than 10K quantities, there aren't a lot of alternatives.  Better to salvage the part yourself under reasonably controlled conditions and have it today, than to buy it online, get it two weeks later and have a 99% probability it's been 'reprocessed' in the PRC or a 3rd world country, with a >50% probability its been done by burning off the board over a charcoal fire and washing the parts in the river using child labour.

I've cleaned off many pads by wiping with hot braid.   You always wipe from the track towards the other end to avoid damage.  You also get a feel for whether a board is in good enough condition for it to be sensible or not.

On the flux issue - the good stuff costs money, and so does whatever you are running in the ultrasonic cleaner tank to clean it off.   A slight excess of flux is far better than too little, but I think he's over-doing it. I'll use a toothpick if I have to, to get the amount I want, where I want it.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5364
  • Country: ch
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2015, 10:43:33 am »
I got an assortment of (unsharpened) needle tips on ebay for like $4 -- 10pcs each of 11 sizes. Easy to dispense very carefully with that. (I've since found "needles" with flexible Teflon tubes instead of metal, probably even better for electronics use.)
 

Offline Fat

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2015, 04:46:45 pm »
He's in an setting with a very high overhead and a massive workload. He takes in repairs from other shops that they couldn't solve.  To Rossmann, time is money. He moves through it as quickly as possible. He doesn't take time to find the toothpick to apply just the right amount of flux. Speed is everything.  I could do without some of the language, but it is fun for me to watch what he's doing.

Fat
 

Offline jaxbird

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 778
  • Country: 00
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2015, 05:11:57 pm »
The man is making a steady living for himself and others in a clearly hostile environment, I can only applaud that.

He might not be the best at replacing components, but it works and he does give a repair guarantee to his customers, I really don't see any problems here. He has managed to create a steady business from nothing, without any fancy degrees or anything. He just worked out if this doesn't work, you replace this thing, and hey that is all you really need to know.



Analog Discovery Projects: http://www.thestuffmade.com
Youtube random project videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheStuffMade
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4339
  • Country: ca
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2015, 05:21:22 pm »
I watched a few and it seemed the guy was scared like hell of all of the competition out there.
Just plain scared.

But the reason i dropped him from my views list was too much repetition when he talks.  He repeats after repeiting of repeiting himself. That to me was even worse than his low language.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline PA4TIM

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1125
  • Country: nl
  • instruments are like rabbits, they multiply fast
    • PA4TIMs shelter for orphan measurement stuff
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2015, 07:53:15 pm »
I watch his video's regular, I can feel his frustration about former failed repairs but, hey, if I can fix it, it feels extra great  8)
I'm in the repair business too, it can cost a lot of energy / concentration and there is the risk of screwing things up, getting things ready on time, etc. For most in his business. So I think he needs this to get the frustration/stress out of his system.

What he does is far from what I do, that is why I like to see it. I could never do what he does. I get (industrial) measurement and calibration gear from all kinds of brands and types, most are without service manuals or schematics and almost every repair is a first. Many instruments are more or less unknown to google. I need to work very clean and often after I'm ready all flux remains are gone. I'm used to work on instruments that are very clean on the inside. I use a good flux but not by far in that amounts. I have an arsenal of cleaning products. I have an ultrasonic cleaner but I do not clean pcbs in it.
I'm not a wicker, I have some, but I'm very handy in using my pace desolder-iron. (but it starts to wear out). I can not remember the last time I removed a solder-pad or trace.

I admire him because I think his consumers and their electronics would drive me crazy. Dirty, cheap made expenIsive junk and frustrated owners.

Most of my customers are more or less techs them selves. That makes it more easy to talk to, they appreciate what I do and know it takes time.  I have my lab here at home, no personal, no rent, no travelling, no expensive stock, all the technical toys tools I like (so not what the boss likes) and interesting work, so I'm happy.

Not all repair men are the same. I think you probably have to be a bit coco to like and do this work. ;)


 
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2015, 09:04:43 pm »
Yeah,

I think he is doing great teaching guys how to do things themselves if they have enough steady hand and equipment but some work practices are different from mine what I have learnt and got used to so I am just ranting how wrong that is like opening std libraries in headers when coding :rant:

I like his style for doing things fast sometimes now that I have watched more of his videos now and I think I could get well along with him as a work buddy but would take sometime to explain it other different approaches to problem :)

But back to the problem: yeah using a lot flux ain't doing it any faster if you had syringe gun where you get almost exact amount you wanted. Amount he uses adds costs in long run but if you make enough money you might not anymore care about these small flows :) Other problem is if any unactivated flux remains on board and it will be coated for extra protection it is going to cause coating to bubble and look very ugly.

Yeah I would also love to buy some equipment that I use at work but that would mean a few years saving money to buy them but in long run I might able to get them from auctions or 2nd hand surplus eventually. Well I actually could already buy my company's quicky 450 phase solder unit cheap but Galden LS230 would be too costly to run it as hobby oven :D
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 09:10:14 pm by FireFlower »
 

Offline Nerull

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 686
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #77 on: November 27, 2015, 12:39:14 am »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #78 on: November 27, 2015, 08:59:18 am »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

While I understand your comments and largely agree, the fact is that you need confidence to start messing about at component level on these boards. A great many people are put off working with SMD who are OK with through hole, I know at one time I was. Once you've started you do wonder what all the fuss was about, but the packages are getting harder to deal with, but you need some degree confidence, and unfortunately that confidence is a bit of a chicken and egg in that it mostly comes with experience. That experience usually comes with a few failures along the way too, and in some cases that might be expensive.

The arrogance though isn't really my cup of tea, I am reminded of the movie Trading Places when I see some of those videos.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #79 on: November 27, 2015, 11:11:00 am »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

On the admittedly limited evidence of having only  watched this video,I don't see Rossman as being one of those people.
He doesn't show the pomposity which the "pretenders" or indeed, the occasional person on this forum displays.

OK,he criticises the previous work.
Good Techs usually assume that their own level of competence is the baseline,& expect others to be equally or more competent.
No matter how many times you see horrible work,it still comes as a shock,so criticism tends to be a little harsh.

 
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 200
  • Country: gb
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2015, 11:30:17 am »
Wow! I think I've finally found someone who swears more than me (by several orders of magnitude). 

For what it's worth, Rossmann is certainly no braggart regarding his skills; Indeed in many of the videos I watched, the chap rather robustly states how poor he is at soldering and such. There's even a video in which he shows how awful his school grades were.

In fact I quite admire his down to earth honesty. Kudos to him for building up a successful business in a difficult field. He certainly seems to get the job done, which I suppose, accounts for his success.

Anyway, I've subscribed to his channel. Most amusing.  :-+
 

Offline PA4TIM

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1125
  • Country: nl
  • instruments are like rabbits, they multiply fast
    • PA4TIMs shelter for orphan measurement stuff
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2015, 11:49:40 am »
. A great many people are put off working with SMD who are OK with through hole, I know at one time I was. Once you've started you do wonder what all the fuss was about, but the packages are getting harder to deal with, but you need some degree confidence, and unfortunately that confidence is a bit of a chicken and egg in that it mostly comes with experience. That experience usually comes with a few failures along the way too, and in some cases that might be expensive.

I do not think he is arrogant. He build himself a nice business.
Indeed, smd is  not so terrible. I use a metcal hot air station with a small nozzle to desolder smd parts. That takes 10 to 30 seconds. Removing trough hole IC's takes more time (with my cripple pace desolder station, yesterday I have had it and ordered a Metcal solder/desolder station)

The problem with smd is the marking on packages. Without a schematic you not even know what it is. Had a sot23 and the marking was used for a transitor, a diode and a mosfet...very handy (not !)
www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline john_p_wi

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2015, 02:53:05 pm »

For what it's worth, Rossmann is certainly no braggart regarding his skills; Indeed in many of the videos I watched, the chap rather robustly states how poor he is at soldering and such. There's even a video in which he shows how awful his school grades were.

In fact I quite admire his down to earth honesty. Kudos to him for building up a successful business in a difficult field. He certainly seems to get the job done, which I suppose, accounts for his success.


This^^^

After all, his ability to run a business in one of the most expensive areas of the US at the age 26 is quite admirable in itself.

How many of us can say that?
 

Online grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2751
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2015, 03:14:26 pm »

For what it's worth, Rossmann is certainly no braggart regarding his skills; Indeed in many of the videos I watched, the chap rather robustly states how poor he is at soldering and such. There's even a video in which he shows how awful his school grades were.

In fact I quite admire his down to earth honesty. Kudos to him for building up a successful business in a difficult field. He certainly seems to get the job done, which I suppose, accounts for his success.


This^^^

After all, his ability to run a business in one of the most expensive areas of the US at the age 26 is quite admirable in itself.

How many of us can say that?
Not to mention that he has chosen (probably for economic reasons) to work on what must be almost the most repair unfriendly platform in existence.
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2015, 03:33:25 pm »


Well lets say Rossmann is doing fine job being a middle-middle-man between OEM/ other repairshops and end customer and I just leave it at there. Some things are better to be left in dark.

fixing iStuff probably generates nice money because generally that stuff is very overpriced for consumers and fail rates seem to be high.

Edit:
Oh I have to admit I visually damaged board today and we can't sell it, I used protections but air bubble inside PCB and pooof.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 03:38:38 pm by FireFlower »
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2015, 04:29:11 pm »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy.

Constantly showing aggressive behavior to try and lead viewers to believe you're an Alpha is an Omega trait. Alphas only need to show aggression when legitimately threatened by other Alphas. I'm sure anyone who is Alpha or Beta can sense something is not quite right with him.

Coppice pointed out before Dunning–Kruger effect, which is probably occurring as well.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2015, 04:36:49 pm »
After all, his ability to run a business in one of the most expensive areas of the US at the age 26 is quite admirable in itself.

How many of us can say that?

+1,  while creating a few jobs on the way and enabling other businesses that send him wholesaler repairs.

BTW, he doesn't seems to use an anti static wrist. Is it less of a problem with assembled boards (vs preassembled components)?
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2015, 04:52:02 pm »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy.

Constantly showing aggressive behavior to try and lead viewers to believe you're an Alpha is an Omega trait. Alphas only need to show aggression when legitimately threatened by other Alphas. I'm sure anyone who is Alpha or Beta can sense something is not quite right with him.

Coppice pointed out before Dunning–Kruger effect, which is probably occurring as well.

I,for one,am too old to need "role models" & have also learnt life & people are far more complex than your simple "Alpha & Omega " concept.

Many of us who found nothing wrong with  Rossman's video have worked for many years in Electronics with all sorts of people,& no longer have your youthful confidence,or dare I say,intolerance.

That's the nice version------here's the "not so nice":-

My God!,You talk twaddle! ;D
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2015, 05:00:18 pm »
. A great many people are put off working with SMD who are OK with through hole, I know at one time I was. Once you've started you do wonder what all the fuss was about, but the packages are getting harder to deal with, but you need some degree confidence, and unfortunately that confidence is a bit of a chicken and egg in that it mostly comes with experience. That experience usually comes with a few failures along the way too, and in some cases that might be expensive.

I do not think he is arrogant. He build himself a nice business.
Indeed, smd is  not so terrible. I use a metcal hot air station with a small nozzle to desolder smd parts. That takes 10 to 30 seconds. Removing trough hole IC's takes more time (with my cripple pace desolder station, yesterday I have had it and ordered a Metcal solder/desolder station)

The problem with smd is the marking on packages. Without a schematic you not even know what it is. Had a sot23 and the marking was used for a transitor, a diode and a mosfet...very handy (not !)

I think something's gone wrong with your quoting there.

I started my business at the age of 26 in Central London, I don't consider it a particularly smart or clever thing to have done now, although at the time I was quite proud. It's nothing unique, there are thousands of people of that age making their own successful businesses in high rent areas.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2015, 05:08:43 pm »
Simple rule: whenever someone uses terms like "alpha" and "beta" (or "omega", that's a new one on me) to describe people, it's pretty safe to assume they're talking drivel and just go do something else. You won't miss much.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2015, 05:16:21 pm »
They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy.

Constantly showing aggressive behavior to try and lead viewers to believe you're an Alpha is an Omega trait. Alphas only need to show aggression when legitimately threatened by other Alphas. I'm sure anyone who is Alpha or Beta can sense something is not quite right with him.

Coppice pointed out before Dunning–Kruger effect, which is probably occurring as well.

I,for one,am too old to need "role models" & have also learnt life & people are far more complex than your simple "Alpha & Omega " concept.

Many of us who found nothing wrong with  Rossman's video have worked for many years in Electronics with all sorts of people,& no longer have your youthful confidence,or dare I say,intolerance.

That's the nice version------here's the "not so nice":-

My God!,You talk twaddle! ;D

So which is it then, easily pleased or sexually attracted?
The male Alpha, Beta, Omega thing is not my concept as you're probably aware.
My youthful intolerance for what, BS? because that is the only intolerance I have.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2015, 05:20:13 pm »
Simple rule: whenever someone uses terms like "alpha" and "beta" ..., it's pretty safe to assume they're talking drivel

So which is it then, easily pleased or sexually attracted?

See?
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2015, 05:55:15 pm »
There's even a video in which he shows how awful his school grades were.

One thing we miss in the US is good vocational tracks but he created his own path.

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2015, 05:57:27 pm »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O
Simple rule: whenever someone uses terms like "alpha" and "beta" (or "omega", that's a new one on me) to describe people, it's pretty safe to assume they're talking drivel and just go do something else. You won't miss much.
See?

You should watch some of the videos where he is doing crotch/groin "emotes" and also the aggressive snaring at the camera, you may have second thoughts. But I wasn't going into full psychology trait theory on this one :) and it's up to you if you don't believe people tend to follow certain patterns of behavior, which is what I was trying to illustrate, along with the bias on why people think he is funny, entertaining, full of wisdom, knowledgeable, successful etc.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline JoeO

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: us
  • I admit to being deplorable
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2015, 06:24:37 pm »
Damn he sounds like an unpleasant prick. How can you people watch this? |O
Simple rule: whenever someone uses terms like "alpha" and "beta" (or "omega", that's a new one on me) to describe people, it's pretty safe to assume they're talking drivel and just go do something else. You won't miss much.
See?

You should watch some of the videos where he is doing crotch/groin "emotes" and also the aggressive snaring at the camera, you may have second thoughts. But I wasn't going into full psychology trait theory on this one :) and it's up to you if you don't believe people tend to follow certain patterns of behavior, which is what I was trying to illustrate, along with the bias on why people think he is funny, entertaining, full of wisdom, knowledgeable, successful etc.

Looking at your signature line I see that you are interested in reflowing BGAs.  Louis always says that very few problems are fixed by reflowing BGAs. 
Admit is.  This is the real reason you don't like him.
The day Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears on Earth.
Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2015, 06:39:45 pm »
My youthful intolerance for what, BS? because that is the only intolerance I have.

Is it possible your youthful intolerance affects what you call BS?

;-)

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2015, 07:01:56 pm »
Looking at your signature line I see that you are interested in reflowing BGAs.  Louis always says that very few problems are fixed by reflowing BGAs. 
Admit is.  This is the real reason you don't like him.

When did I say reflow? I said designing a BGA rework station. Get your facts straight. LOL.

My youthful intolerance for what, BS? because that is the only intolerance I have.
Is it possible your youthful intolerance affects what you call BS?
;-)

I'm not youthful, but I can see why some may think I am. I have got a really well calibrated BS radar, been working on it for years, my own design, field tested. But enough about me, whats your interest in proving me wrong? State how much you love him then move on.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2015, 08:24:20 pm »
I'm not youthful, but I can see why some may think I am. I have got a really well calibrated BS radar, been working on it for years, my own design, field tested. But enough about me, whats your interest in proving me wrong? State how much you love him then move on.

No interest, just trying to help you debugging your design.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #98 on: November 28, 2015, 01:03:46 am »
Looking at your signature line I see that you are interested in reflowing BGAs.  Louis always says that very few problems are fixed by reflowing BGAs. 
Admit is.  This is the real reason you don't like him.

When did I say reflow? I said designing a BGA rework station. Get your facts straight. LOL.

My youthful intolerance for what, BS? because that is the only intolerance I have.
Is it possible your youthful intolerance affects what you call BS?
;-)

I'm not youthful, but I can see why some may think I am. I have got a really well calibrated BS radar, been working on it for years, my own design, field tested. But enough about me, whats your interest in proving me wrong? State how much you love him then move on.

This  is why I assumed you were young:-

"They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy."

That is the sort of stuff that kids say.

Nobody "loves" Rossman (well perhaps his mother does),we are just giving our opinions on the video presented.
Many of us will probably never look at another of his video clips.

I prefer Dave's videos,but I don't even watch every one of them .

Maybe you should shield your BS meter.
It seems to be having problems with a strong local interfering signal.
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #99 on: November 28, 2015, 02:19:22 am »
I've found the tangents this thread is going on, alpha/omega, sex, fangirls etc, quite bizzare - a bit Shocking perhaps  :-DD Anyone would think mojo is back to his old games...  :popcorn:
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2015, 02:20:27 am »
I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

On the admittedly limited evidence of having only watched this video,I don't see Rossman as being one of those people.
He doesn't show the pomposity which the "pretenders" or indeed, the occasional person on this forum displays.

This  is why I assumed you were young:-

Quote from: Shock
They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy.
That is the sort of stuff that kids say.

Nobody "loves" Rossman (well perhaps his mother does),we are just giving our opinions on the video presented.
Many of us will probably never look at another of his video clips.

Hit the nail on the head again. Watch several more videos and come back with a more informed opinion on why exactly you like them or why you think I'm childish or have no valid opinion for calling someone elses behavior into question, the conversation has slightly moved on from the flux discussion.

It's also going to get old fast if you are formulating to "grandpa" me to death in threads for my opinion. If you don't think I have anything valid to contribute, add me to your ignore. I'm not exactly running around dropping f-bombs like the person you seem to be defending.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2015, 02:25:00 am »
Nobody "loves" Rossman (well perhaps his mother does)
That should be in the past tense, at least that's what I got from the Rossman high-school tests video.  :'(
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2015, 02:51:22 am »
I've found the tangents this thread is going on, alpha/omega, sex, fangirls etc, quite bizzare - a bit Shocking perhaps  :-DD Anyone would think mojo is back to his old games...  :popcorn:

It was more sexual attraction, obsession, not sex per se, I'm sure Dave has had it happen, it's not uncommon when your in a position of perceived power or are building a following that a percentage of your fan base is attracted to you in this way.

I missed the whole mojo thing and never really read what he posted so not sure what happened there, I get the general idea though. I've dropped my opinion in probably about a dozen times in 3 years. Sorry to disappoint I'm not going nuclear for you any time soon. :)
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1982
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2015, 04:43:18 am »
I don't have to like the guy to be able to learn something from him.

"Take what you need and leave the rest." It's good advice.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2015, 08:58:50 am »
You should watch some of the videos where he is doing crotch/groin "emotes" and also the aggressive snaring

dude, that is some latent homosexuality right there, you should spend more time concentrating on the subject of videos instead of constantly looking at guys package. there are no hidden mating rituals in there, he isnt trying to bang your gf, why so insecure about another man _on the internet_?  :wtf:
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #105 on: November 28, 2015, 12:02:15 pm »
You should watch some of the videos where he is doing crotch/groin "emotes" and also the aggressive snaring

dude, that is some latent homosexuality right there, you should spend more time concentrating on the subject of videos instead of constantly looking at guys package. there are no hidden mating rituals in there, he isnt trying to bang your gf, why so insecure about another man _on the internet_?  :wtf:

Well aren't you inventive, how in the hell did you get from me talking about what he did in a couple of videos to me being gay and insecure, banging my parter, mating rituals and his package? Now THAT looks like latent homosexuality behavior right there.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2015, 12:46:35 pm »
Hey if anyone else wants to pull cheap shots my age, maturity, sexual preference, technical ability, insecurity, intolerance, have already been covered, and I was even somewhat jokingly accused of being someone else. I think we still got religion, race, political preference left.

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2015, 01:15:28 pm »
This thread has become.......
 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:
The part that really sucks; I don't have four hands to do the four handed face-palm...
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5501
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2015, 02:29:52 pm »
Hey if anyone else wants to pull cheap shots my age, maturity, sexual preference, technical ability, insecurity, intolerance, have already been covered, and I was even somewhat jokingly accused of being someone else. I think we still got religion, race, political preference left.

Some of the more recent postings have gone well "over the top",but you can't really claim victim status.
You introduced the subject of sexuality in Post#85,& I quote :-

"They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy."


You could have made a sensible comment,which looking at most of your early posts,you are quite capable of doing,but you couldn't leave it alone,& now it has come back & bitten you.

Everybody else------let's  get off Shock's back now & go on with our lives.
 

Offline orion242

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 745
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2015, 02:54:00 pm »
You should watch some of the videos where he is doing crotch/groin "emotes" and also the aggressive snaring

dude, that is some latent homosexuality right there, you should spend more time concentrating on the subject of videos instead of constantly looking at guys package. there are no hidden mating rituals in there, he isnt trying to bang your gf, why so insecure about another man _on the internet_?  :wtf:

 :-DD

Just about shot my morning coffee out my nose....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 02:58:29 pm by orion242 »
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2015, 03:04:00 pm »
Some of the more recent postings have gone well "over the top", but you can't really claim victim status.
You introduced the subject of sexuality in Post#85

I'm curious what magical fantasy land many of the posters here live in, where confidence correlates with competency. In my experience, the more loudly they boast about how great they are, the more stuff they fuck up because they're morons too proud to ever learn anything, because that might involve admitting the possibility that they don't know everything already. If you come across someone who only seems to brag about their own abilities, run far away.

They live in the fantasy land where they lack better role models, easily pleased or are sexually attracted in some way. Either that or they haven't sat through enough videos to get a good representation. Anyway picking up fangirls is easy.

You could have made a sensible comment,which looking at most of your early posts,you are quite capable of doing, but you couldn't leave it alone,& now it has come back & bitten you. Everybody else let's  get off Shock's back now & go on with our lives.

Nah, I'm not claiming to be a victim, read my reply in context to the Nerull's post regarding confidence vs competency. Here one of the videos I was talking about in all it's glory, complete with crotch/groin "emotes".

Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6604
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2015, 03:12:35 pm »
Give it a rest and find something better to do than watch his videos and whinge about how you don't like him.
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #112 on: November 28, 2015, 06:51:08 pm »



For anybody who is considering getting into a repair business that deals with the public Needs to watch this video. This guy is saying what has worked for many of us who have been in his shoes.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #113 on: November 28, 2015, 10:29:04 pm »
In the 90's I used to freelance as a repairman of PCs... a.k.a. the computer guy. I did not watch this video yet, but AF6LJ's comment piqued my interest, as I used to tell the folks I gave ZERO days of warranty - i.e., see if it is fixed, but don't come back telling that it "somehow" broke again.

People used to take this seriously, as I was very effective in repairing and, especially, recovering almost unrepairable files...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #114 on: November 28, 2015, 10:43:41 pm »
For anybody who is considering getting into a repair business that deals with the public Needs to watch this video. This guy is saying what has worked for many of us who have been in his shoes.
Amen to that! I also watched this initially wondering what all this "crotch shot" stuff was about in Shock's mind, but just watched the video with total recall of my time dealing with certain customers and never noticed any genital gesticulations at all. I am not insane enough to watch a video to notice such a "micro-aggression" if it ever was there. But he is spot on with his business sense and how to deal with customers.

When I was an apprentice bench engineer I remember having to deal with angry customers when I would occasionally have to be degraded to do "counter-shift". Ok, most customers are fine, but sometimes we would have the family from hell - yes, not just a customer, but his whole family with him, wife, grandma, kids and all - to show us "that we are depriving the kids of their christmas telly!" and instantly on the offensive. Despite my articulating with this neanderthal that there is no need to threaten my life for a trivial fault the wife proceeded to scream at me that I am fucking scum for personally manufacturing, selling, delivering, arranging never-never finance, and installing that wretched TV. However they would relent from kicking my fucking teeth in if I got it fixed for them "while they wait" in the lobby.

I have to hand it to my boss who was the service manager but brought up from the ranks by calming the situation down AND dealing with the shit-heads by personally fixing their problem without us having to interrupt our workflow. (Yes, he fixed the fucking thing himself).

NOBODY wanted his job I can tell you! He also had the no bullshit attitude of Rossman, only on steroids (I actually think he was on coke myself, hence the much higher paid job to pay for it!).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 10:45:47 pm by Macbeth »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1982
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #115 on: November 28, 2015, 10:56:33 pm »


Nah, I'm not claiming to be a victim, read my reply in context to the Nerull's post regarding confidence vs competency. Here one of the videos I was talking about in all it's glory, complete with crotch/groin "emotes".


Oh come on. Presumably that's the best example of what you are talking about?  I was expecting all kinds of Michael Jackson crotch-grabs, pelvic thrusts and what not from your description. All I saw was perfectly natural gesturing, nothing emphasizing or even resembling "crotch/groin emotes" at all. At the very last frame of the video when he stops gesturing his left hand drops to his _lap_. That's it.
He's giving good advice in his personal "fy" style, which you may or may not approve of, and YOU are reading something into his perfectly ordinary gesturing that, in my opinion, is not there _at all_.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 10:58:20 pm by alsetalokin4017 »
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Cubdriver

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2946
  • Country: us
  • Nixie addict
    • Photos of electronic gear
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #116 on: November 28, 2015, 11:51:52 pm »
I don't get the fuss.  I've watched a few of his videos; he seems to me to be a reasonably competent repair guy who has a bit of a mouth on him.  I'd say he seems pretty restrained considering the idiocy he likely encounters in dealing with the general public.  If anything, watching him work has made me more inclined to try repairs on some of those insanely small surface mount components.  I think he's pretty entertaining, and honest in that he shows his screw ups along with his successes.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #117 on: November 28, 2015, 11:56:08 pm »
He's growing on me a bit, after watching a few more of his videos, but I still hate that one. I understand frustration - I even understand saying the things he is saying, given the amount of frustration involved. And I understand sharing that with people. But when you're insulting specific people, that's something you should keep to yourself. That shit shouldn't go up on YouTube. It's okay to feel and think those things in the privacy of your own business or home. It's not okay to share them with the world.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #118 on: November 29, 2015, 12:20:20 am »
But when you're insulting specific people, that's something you should keep to yourself.
Oooh... Which video does he do this on? Who is this person? Does he have a facebook profile? The world wants to know!
 

Offline JoeO

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: us
  • I admit to being deplorable
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #119 on: November 29, 2015, 01:33:46 am »
But when you're insulting specific people, that's something you should keep to yourself.
Oooh... Which video does he do this on? Who is this person? Does he have a facebook profile? The world wants to know!
We here is the states are going through a period of heightened feelings.  There are people who get offended by every little thing that happens to them or is said about them.   
We give out participation trophies, not champions trophies. 
This is especially prevalent on college campuses.
We are raising a generation of wusses.
The day Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears on Earth.
Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Offline fubar.gr

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
  • Country: gr
    • Fubar.gr
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #120 on: November 29, 2015, 01:38:15 am »

Blah, he needs to read IPC 7711/21 guidelines again  :popcorn:

Is this for real? This costs $300 !!!

https://portal.ipc.org/Purchase/ProductDetail.aspx?Product_code=C4D14F3D-48CD-DC11-AFC9-001422202D38

I'm not interested in getting that certification. Is there any similar, cheaper rework guide?

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #121 on: November 29, 2015, 01:43:47 am »


Nah, I'm not claiming to be a victim, read my reply in context to the Nerull's post regarding confidence vs competency. Here one of the videos I was talking about in all it's glory, complete with crotch/groin "emotes".


Oh come on. Presumably that's the best example of what you are talking about?  I was expecting all kinds of Michael Jackson crotch-grabs, pelvic thrusts and what not from your description. All I saw was perfectly natural gesturing, nothing emphasizing or even resembling "crotch/groin emotes" at all. At the very last frame of the video when he stops gesturing his left hand drops to his _lap_. That's it.
He's giving good advice in his personal "fy" style, which you may or may not approve of, and YOU are reading something into his perfectly ordinary gesturing that, in my opinion, is not there _at all_.

The content of the video is good, and I agree there was nothing that matches Shock's description...

But when you're insulting specific people, that's something you should keep to yourself.
Oooh... Which video does he do this on? Who is this person? Does he have a facebook profile? The world wants to know!
We here is the states are going through a period of heightened feelings.  There are people who get offended by every little thing that happens to them or is said about them.   
We give out participation trophies, not champions trophies. 
This is especially prevalent on college campuses.
We are raising a generation of wusses.

This is happening in more than one country...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline ITelektronika

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #122 on: November 29, 2015, 02:31:51 am »
He definitely does a good job.
It's pretty hard to do this job and record video and I think that we should not be too hard on him, try it yourself and see.
However, in some things he is wrong.
Too much flux in this case does not harm, but it is unnecessary.
In some cases, too much flux is a mistake. The best example is soldering BGA components.
He made a video where he explains that reball is shit.
He explained that all the BGA available on the market are actually removed from the board and that are used, not new.
Reball sucks, and reflow too. No one I know of has equipment that could with certainty see is the problem is in the joints or in the chip. But from experience, 99% of the problem in BGA.
New BGA chips are, of course available and may be purchased. The problem is not that he is wrong. The problem is when you can not admit you were wrong.
His channel is great for someone who is thought to indulge in adventure repair motherboards. For those who want to learn more, IMO find solutions to problems yourself, not through youtube channel.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 02:34:57 am by ITelektronika »
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6604
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #123 on: November 29, 2015, 02:33:55 am »
New BGA chips are, of course available and may be purchased.

Not all of them.
 

Offline ITelektronika

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #124 on: November 29, 2015, 02:37:23 am »
Yes you are right. The point is that most are available, contrary to what Luis said.
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6604
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2015, 02:38:56 am »
Yes you are right. The point is that most are available, contrary to what Luis said.

I think your definition of most and his definition are very different.

Apple-specific parts and legacy GPUs are not available new. This includes.. pretty much every faulty GPU likely to occur in a Macbook. And the SMC, and many of the power management ICs.
 

Offline ITelektronika

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2015, 02:46:08 am »
This is wrong.
The best example is g86-602-a2 (8600gt). The chip is also available in the new revision which is corrected a problem with underfill. So the chip that is built into 2008 apple is available with D/C (example) 2011g.
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2015, 02:49:27 am »

We here is the states are going through a period of heightened feelings.  There are people who get offended by every little thing that happens to them or is said about them.   
We give out participation trophies, not champions trophies. 
This is especially prevalent on college campuses.
We are raising a generation of wusses.

This is happening in more than one country...
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
It is the invasion of the Cry Bullies.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 02:51:06 am by AF6LJ »
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6604
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2015, 02:51:29 am »
This is wrong.
The best example is g86-602-a2 (8600gt). The chip is also available in the new revision which is corrected a problem with underfill. So the chip that is built into 2008 apple is available with D/C (example) 2011g.

So where do I source, from a trustworthy, known, not Chinese, Taiwanese, Russian, Ukranian, or equally unreliable seller, a brand new production G86M (that's an 8400, not an 8600), at a sane price, in proper quantities?

I'll not be holding my breath.
 

Offline ITelektronika

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2015, 02:58:16 am »
The chips until 2008 had significantly different underfill, and this can be seen with the naked eye(is much brighter). Beyond 2009 has changed underfill. Is it used chip puled from motherboard maded 2007? You do the math.
Time machine? :-DD

Sellers are all more or less the same, unreliable. If you buy a large amount and you insist that you send only the new chips, such'll get and because it is in their interest to keep the customer. You should be able to recognize the new chip used. After all, give warranty 1 year and you will see results.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 03:03:14 am by ITelektronika »
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6604
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2015, 02:59:08 am »
The chips until 2008 had significantly different underfill, and this can be seen with the naked eye(is much brighter). Beyond 2009 has changed underfill. Is it used chip puled from motherboard maded 2007? You do the math.
Time machine? :-DD

I'm not asking for a guide on identifying them.

Where do I buy these brand new chips from a reputable distributor?
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5364
  • Country: ch
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2015, 03:14:33 am »
Yeah. Especially custom Apple things like the SMC, which is a small MCU with its own custom firmware. Apple doesn't sell those to anyone, except preinstalled in a Mac. If you know where to buy those, ITelektronika, then you know a secret the repair pros don't know.
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2015, 03:40:32 am »

We here is the states are going through a period of heightened feelings.  There are people who get offended by every little thing that happens to them or is said about them.   
We give out participation trophies, not champions trophies. 
This is especially prevalent on college campuses.
We are raising a generation of wusses.

This is happening in more than one country...
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
It is the invasion of the Cry Bullies.

An interesting video:


A bit more loosely related:
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline AF6LJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2015, 04:08:41 am »
We are DOOMED...
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2015, 04:14:33 am »
New BGA chips are, of course available and may be purchased.

can you sell me some? I would be interested in G86-731-A2 and G86-771-A2. New original from reputable source, preferably manufacturer :)

We here is the states are going through a period of heightened feelings.  There are people who get offended by every little thing that happens to them or is said about them.   
We give out participation trophies, not champions trophies. 
This is especially prevalent on college campuses.
We are raising a generation of wusses.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/aug/07/are-americans-falling-in-love-with-censorship
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-trigger-happy-generation-1432245600 paywalled, article here: http://billwall.phpwebhosting.com/thomas/articles/trigger_happy.pdf
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline jmegar324

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #135 on: November 29, 2015, 06:10:42 am »
Does he mention the type of flux he uses?
 

Offline lukaq

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: si
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #136 on: November 29, 2015, 06:20:51 am »
Does he mention the type of flux he uses?
yes he does, many times

Offline PA4TIM

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1125
  • Country: nl
  • instruments are like rabbits, they multiply fast
    • PA4TIMs shelter for orphan measurement stuff
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #137 on: November 29, 2015, 07:29:22 am »
He does not tell the flux type the correct  American way, supported by a bunch of warnings, like; you must not drink it, not use it wash your hair, not kill your neighbor with it (Man, Female, transexual, rebuild gender). Can I sue him for that ?  >:D   :-DD

www.pa4tim.nl my collection measurement gear and experiments Also lots of info about network analyse
www.schneiderelectronicsrepair.nl  repair of test and calibration equipment
https://www.youtube.com/user/pa4tim my youtube channel
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #138 on: November 29, 2015, 10:19:13 am »
An interesting video:
Stupidity of that guy is that he can not see the difference between team sports and individual sports.
Soccer is a team sport every individual has a purpose that serves the team. Only the attackers are there for scoring there are also defenders and the midfield players.
Soccer practice you often do exercises that are pure on skills.
If you ever watched a youth game under 11 then you know what can go wrong. All players are where the ball is because they all want to score and their parents also, that is stupid. Scoring is the ultimate goal of the game but if you do not learn the basics of team play it is never going to work. So good rules in Canada and also abandon all parents from the tribunes and pay respect to the referee, you might one day be world champion.
 

Offline ITelektronika

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #139 on: November 29, 2015, 11:52:15 am »
Yeah. Especially custom Apple things like the SMC, which is a small MCU with its own custom firmware. Apple doesn't sell those to anyone, except preinstalled in a Mac. If you know where to buy those, ITelektronika, then you know a secret the repair pros don't know.
Oh.......
Of course, you can dig a chip that is not available. In fact you can find plenty of them. But it does not confirm his statement, that the new chips are unavailable and that all the chips used.
Repeat once more.
You can not buy every chip. But most of them are available. He is in the video showed a bunch boards on which they are remove BGA chips, mainly GPU. Explaining that those chips you buy on E-bay. This is not true. I gave an example.
I have not written anywhere that you find every chip, you miss my point.
In the video, which was recorded later, he does reflow. With the heat gun, without preheating.
For those who are familiar with repair of motherboards, should not be special explanation how much it is wrong.
We all make mistakes. Someone learns from those mistakes, someone does not.

Quote
can you sell me some? I would be interested in G86-731-A2 and G86-771-A2. New original from reputable source, preferably manufacturer :)

No I can not sell you any BGA.
I order from this reseller
http://www.see-ic.com/goods-118.html
As you can see, this chip has date code 1408, it is chip that is manufactured 2014 with new underfill.
My advice is to order 10 pieces or more, if are new must be with the same date of manufacture packaged in a row. With this reseller in 95% of cases never had a problem. The others did not, regularly sent me used chips. But you can see that, after all that I have said, give a guarantee of one year. If you have a reclamation more than a few percent, something is wrong. Or chips or your work.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 12:04:17 pm by ITelektronika »
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #140 on: November 29, 2015, 12:06:19 pm »
An interesting video:
Stupidity of that guy is that he can not see the difference between team sports and individual sports.
Soccer is a team sport every individual has a purpose that serves the team. Only the attackers are there for scoring there are also defenders and the midfield players.
Soccer practice you often do exercises that are pure on skills.
If you ever watched a youth game under 11 then you know what can go wrong. All players are where the ball is because they all want to score and their parents also, that is stupid. Scoring is the ultimate goal of the game but if you do not learn the basics of team play it is never going to work. So good rules in Canada and also abandon all parents from the tribunes and pay respect to the referee, you might one day be world champion.
In my opinion, the main issue with this train of thought is that you are not thinking about the fact that people (including kids) are able to learn from their own mistakes. Teams that don't do good due to the "greed to score" will be worse than the ones that are organized - and I know this from experience. In my home country (Brazil) kids play competitively handball, volleyball, basketball and, as you probably guessed, football (soccer) since we start walking. We played in the streets, in any empty lot or in a fancy gymnasium with anything that was moderately round (a tin can, a sock ball or even sometimes with a real inflatable, Michelin-type gift from the heavens!) and the rules were more or less self-regulated (as rarely there were adults to spoil things). I can tell that his point of view is probably from someone coming from a similar era where less is more (although he is younger than me).

Regarding the parents, some can be complete idiots on stands regardless of their kid's age or if they are involved in collective or individual sports (I know that from experience as well).

Regarding the referee... If he has authority and knows the rules that is what matters - he is there to rule, not to be liked.

At last, a good indication this is not a serious rule is that they don't apply equally to all sports, only to the ones the population does not care as much as hockey. 

In any case, I think I derailed this thread too much. Back to its normal programming.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Shock

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3340
  • Country: au
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #141 on: November 29, 2015, 01:39:01 pm »
I think people were discussing how they eat up any BS put on a plate in front of them.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline tooki

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5364
  • Country: ch
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #143 on: November 29, 2015, 07:12:36 pm »
You can not buy every chip. But most of them are available. He is in the video showed a bunch boards on which they are remove BGA chips, mainly GPU. Explaining that those chips you buy on E-bay. This is not true. I gave an example.
I have not written anywhere that you find every chip, you miss my point.

Your exact words: "New BGA chips are, of course available and may be purchased." You did not say "most" or "some". So yes, you did imply that they are all available, which is untrue.
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #144 on: November 29, 2015, 07:55:02 pm »
This thread is seriously starting to go off-topic and growing to be be simply just troll, hate, flame thread.

 :popcorn:
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #145 on: November 29, 2015, 07:58:30 pm »
All because I said someone was rude, too. Apparently that passes for hypersensitivity now :-DD
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4866
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #146 on: November 29, 2015, 10:18:51 pm »
NO Technician worth a damned is going to take a heat gun to something without having isolated the problem to that part.

Not even if it reduces the average time it takes to make the repairs?
 

Offline KL27x

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #147 on: November 29, 2015, 10:34:38 pm »
WTH is a crotch/groin emote? And how does one emote by gesturing in a video?  :-//

I had to google "emote". Used in MUDs and test based role-playing games, e.g.:

* John groins Jane *
* Jane crothes John *

Nowadays, "emote" is more often used as an abbreviation for emoticon, e.g.:

8=====)

Not quite a groin, but this is as close as I know. :)


 

 
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:07:51 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline FireFlower

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 129
  • Country: fi
  • Wish had a cabin in Lappland
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #148 on: November 29, 2015, 10:45:10 pm »
WTH is a crotch/groin emote? And how does one emote by gesturing in a video?  :-//

Probably he meant hand sign/s for that. Anyway we were talking about amount of flux he uses and techniques but for some reason this is starting to be more and more other  members pecking each other.
 

Offline KL27x

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #149 on: November 29, 2015, 11:15:08 pm »
Regarding these vids, I only watched a few bits, here and there, as referenced by some posts. Can't really stand the running commentary in real time.

One thing I noticed about his bravado/confidence while cursing other person's attempt is it appears he has done the same repair dozens of times. That certainly gives you some confidence.

I also noticed a bit where he goes on about how great magnet wire is for repairs. Then the next minute admits he has never used it before and it was actually a total PITA. (He used only a short uninsulated bit, where he could have used a bare bus wire, so yeah, using enamel coated wire only to scrape it off would be a PITA.) I think he just talks like that all the time. I wouldn't take it personal if he knocked my work, anymore than if I were the guy that built the Esinomed tablet that was tore up by Dave. (Heck, for all we know, it was a last minute job, and the designer made the impossible possible. Maybe bodged together in an emergency, in a hotel room from spare parts the night before a presentation. And the real key to the presentation might have been the SOFTWARE; hardware can be redesigned after a contract has been signed and millions of dollars are now available. And the medical industry is notorious for bodged electronics. Multiple off-the-shelf walwarts stuffed inside of a huge metal case = medical grade PSU, that'll be $3,000.00, thank you. Shit like that happens anywhere insurance/government contracts are involved).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:36:25 pm by KL27x »
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #150 on: November 29, 2015, 11:37:56 pm »
Probably he meant hand sign/s for that. Anyway we were talking about amount of flux he uses and techniques but for some reason this is starting to be more and more other  members pecking each other.

Nobody did mention what flux he actually uses...  :-// ... other than someone being unhelpful expecting us to search through thousands of hours of video when he could have proffered a simple answer instead |O
 

Offline KL27x

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #151 on: November 29, 2015, 11:38:52 pm »
It looks like no-clean gel flux. Who cares?
 

Offline john_p_wi

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 83
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #152 on: November 30, 2015, 12:11:08 am »

Nobody did mention what flux he actually uses...  :-// ... other than someone being unhelpful expecting us to search through thousands of hours of video when he could have proffered a simple answer instead |O

Amtech Soldering Flux Paste NC-559-ASM-TPF(UV)
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #153 on: November 30, 2015, 12:18:43 am »

Nobody did mention what flux he actually uses...  :-// ... other than someone being unhelpful expecting us to search through thousands of hours of video when he could have proffered a simple answer instead |O

Amtech Soldering Flux Paste NC-559-ASM-TPF(UV)
Thanks  :-+ But KL27x thinks you are a fuckwit, why would you care to even waste your time responding with this? KL27x is a hard man and super intelligent and knows it all obviously. :palm:
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #154 on: November 30, 2015, 07:23:19 am »
Teams that don't do good due to the "greed to score" will be worse than the ones that are organized - and I know this from experience. In my home country (Brazil) kids play competitively handball, volleyball, basketball and, as you probably guessed, football (soccer) since we start walking.

"Competition, it makes everything better",  Veridian Dynamics.

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline fubar.gr

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 358
  • Country: gr
    • Fubar.gr
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #155 on: November 30, 2015, 02:49:24 pm »

For what it's worth, Rossmann is certainly no braggart regarding his skills; Indeed in many of the videos I watched, the chap rather robustly states how poor he is at soldering and such. There's even a video in which he shows how awful his school grades were.

In fact I quite admire his down to earth honesty. Kudos to him for building up a successful business in a difficult field. He certainly seems to get the job done, which I suppose, accounts for his success.


This^^^

After all, his ability to run a business in one of the most expensive areas of the US at the age 26 is quite admirable in itself.

How many of us can say that?
Not to mention that he has chosen (probably for economic reasons) to work on what must be almost the most repair unfriendly platform in existence.

Actually, if you want to get into the repair business, Apple stuff is the most logical option.

Apple products are expensive, so you can charge more for a repair.

Also Apple has a big market share (so lots of potential customers), but a limited product line, so you don't have to deal with hundreds of different models.

Yeah, they might be a bit secretive about their products, ie. no schematics available, custom and hard to find ICs etc. but I don't think other mfgs are much better in that respect.

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #156 on: November 30, 2015, 02:54:03 pm »
Along those lines - in many videos he pulls up a full schematic and PCB layout to look through - where the hell does he get those? :-//
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 200
  • Country: gb
  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #157 on: November 30, 2015, 03:08:50 pm »
Along those lines - in many videos he pulls up a full schematic and PCB layout to look through - where the hell does he get those? :-//

Here: http://laptop-schematics.com/  :)
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #158 on: November 30, 2015, 03:16:21 pm »
Along those lines - in many videos he pulls up a full schematic and PCB layout to look through - where the hell does he get those? :-//
usenet, also if you google the (weird) filename from the video you get some russian site(s) where they host these documents.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #159 on: December 12, 2015, 12:03:04 am »

Nobody did mention what flux he actually uses...  :-// ... other than someone being unhelpful expecting us to search through thousands of hours of video when he could have proffered a simple answer instead |O

Amtech Soldering Flux Paste NC-559-ASM-TPF(UV)

He is now selling it directly

Drain the swamp.
 

Online Howardlong

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4944
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #160 on: December 12, 2015, 12:25:04 am »
Managed a minute and then gave up, sorry.
 

Offline sleemanj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2561
  • Country: nz
  • Professional tightwad.
    • The electronics hobby components I sell.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #161 on: December 12, 2015, 01:04:02 am »
I happened across this old Patent for non-corrosive Flux the other day using Rosin, Stearic Acid and... Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly).

  http://www.google.com/patents/US2474863

Quote
The ingredients and their proportions according to this example are: 50 parts by weight of rosin, 15 parts by weight of stearic acid and 35 parts by weight of petroleum jelly (for example, Vaseline), preferably white petroleum jelly. All of the ingredients are placed together in a container or kettle, mixed and heated, at a temperature not exceeding 115 C., until solution of the rosin and stearic acid in the molten petroleum jelly has taken place completely. During the heating, the ingredients are stirred to assist solution of the stearic acid and rosin, and to bring about uniformity of distribution of the resin and stearic acid in the molten petroleum jelly. After the above described heating operation has been performed, the product is allowed to cool to room temperature. The cooled product is the finished flux according to this example.

The finished flux of this example at room temperature is a soft paste of a white to yellowish white color. It can be used very effectively in soldering tin, tin-plate, and copper with lead-tin alloy solders. The flux works very Well with a lead-tin alloy solder consisting of 50% lead and 50% tin. The flux is easily applied with a brush and the solder flows well when it is used. The flux does not cause corrosion of the soldered metal after soldering, even though its residue after soldering is not removed. Further, its residues after soldering can be readily and effectively removed by wiping with a cloth wet with ethyl alcohol or trichlorethylene.

Just an interesting aside.
~~~
EEVBlog Members - get yourself 10% discount off all my electronic components for sale just use the Buy Direct links and use Coupon Code "eevblog" during checkout.  Shipping from New Zealand, international orders welcome :-)
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #162 on: December 12, 2015, 03:57:31 pm »
He is now selling it directly
Thanks! That answers TS question and the topic can be closed  :-DD
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2411
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #163 on: December 12, 2015, 04:33:22 pm »
He is now selling it directly
Thanks! That answers TS question and the topic can be closed  :-DD

?
do you seriously think what I think you think?  :palm:
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #164 on: December 12, 2015, 06:56:58 pm »
He is now selling it directly
Thanks! That answers TS question and the topic can be closed  :-DD

Ha!

To be fair - he is a forum member and based on the date of this video (Dec 11), I'm almost certain it was in response to the question asked in this thread.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #165 on: December 12, 2015, 07:18:17 pm »
He is now selling it directly
Thanks! That answers TS question and the topic can be closed  :-DD

Hmm, you are too suspicious. Next you will say that Dave is doing product placement for Brymen.

;-)
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #166 on: December 13, 2015, 09:34:58 am »
Guys don,t be too serious if I post a  :-DD at the end of a post for me this means it is a fun comment.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #167 on: December 13, 2015, 09:53:41 am »
Hmm, you are too suspicious. Next you will say that Dave is doing product placement for Brymen.

Come end Janurary I'll be selling a Brymen meter. Flame away  :P
 

Offline sleemanj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2561
  • Country: nz
  • Professional tightwad.
    • The electronics hobby components I sell.
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #168 on: December 13, 2015, 10:40:12 am »
Come end Janurary I'll be selling a Brymen meter. Flame away  :P

Clearly this whole forum and indeed your youtube videos have just been a cynical yet elaborate ruse to drive sales of this meter.

~~~
EEVBlog Members - get yourself 10% discount off all my electronic components for sale just use the Buy Direct links and use Coupon Code "eevblog" during checkout.  Shipping from New Zealand, international orders welcome :-)
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15425
  • Country: za
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #169 on: December 13, 2015, 10:49:41 am »
Come end Janurary I'll be selling a Brymen meter. Flame away  :P

And there I was thinking it was an 830 clone without the transistor test socket, to cut the cost even further, and with no fuse, and CATXX ratings to 1MV as well.

 >:D

 

Online Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9099
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #170 on: December 13, 2015, 11:11:09 am »
Next he'll be selling us the $50 interface upgrade option for it! (An EEVblog branded 'DaveCAD' pen)
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #171 on: December 13, 2015, 03:06:29 pm »
Come end Janurary I'll be selling a Brymen meter. Flame away  :P

No flame.  :)

Will you keep reviewing DMMs from other vendors while selling Brymens?
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline Muxr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1346
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #172 on: January 29, 2016, 02:51:28 am »
I enjoy that guys videos personally, mainly from the teardown and troubleshooting perspective. I mean wouldn't we all go a little nuts if we had to repair abused laptops all day long, and deal with unrealistic customer demands and expectations. He can be funny too, and a lot of the stuff he says is spot on.
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #173 on: February 11, 2016, 06:22:17 am »
It's a bit deceiving under the microscope, what looks like a ton of flux may be the size of matchstick head. Of course if you haven't repaired anything before this all looks like rocket science.

But I personally can't stand nutjob banter in any form, I've met so many idiots talking BS before, now I just switch off when they open their mouth or start repeating themselves.

You should really, really watch is videos about why reballing and BGA rework in general is the evil himself..
And then proceeds to charge 350$ to repair boards with used components pulled from dead boards that he says he buys by the pallet at 20$ a piece, some of his soldering is a bit awfull, but its a good bed time rant to start sleeping.

One thing to keep in mind here is context. Over half of the components I replace are not available for purchase at any price on the open market. I either take it off a donor board, or I put a wire where a MOSFET used to be, and the latter isn't helping anyone long term.

The second is the end user. I used to work for a large facility debugging electronic devices that were used in everyday sessions. People opened a trouble ticket, I figured out what was wrong, I fixed it. This could take an hour.. a day, a month, six months. The key performance indicator here was not time to complete a repair. So long as I took a spare piece of gear from the gear room and put it in the control room, where the broken device used to sit, I was fine to take as long as I needed. I had the luxury of buying new replacement components, which were often very standardized tubes, resistors, and transistors. No one was "waiting" on me.

Where I work, we are dealing with devices that belong to an end user that wants to know when it will be done before they walk in the door. When they walk in the door, they want it to be done right then and there... as if nothing else were in the queue. They have no concept of the idea that there is advanced troubleshooting going into this process, and even when they do; they don't really care. It's Manhattan. These people are filmers, stockbrockers, business owners, accountants. They need it back. Now! as Jack bauer would say.

Practical reality dictates if I have to replace 30 components in an isolated area, I will spend 10x as much time looking up each component value, finding its spool, removing it from its spool, soldering it on, etc, then I will just grabbing 30 identical components from an identical donor board. If I were to do my job at the pace of a facility that can do things "by the book" on their own time, I would not have services to offer my target demographic. Heck, I wouldn't have a demographic, I'd have a cardboard box to sleep in; no one's waiting months and months for me to fix one board.

Now, for this system of using parts from donor boards to work, it comes down to two rules. The first rule is to know what is wrong with your donor boards! I cannot stress this enough. Buying liquid damaged donor boards to fix your boards is a BAD IDEA!!! Buying donor boards off of EBAY is a BAD IDEA!!! Anything could be damaged or destroyed on these boards, or semi-damaged and waiting to go out. Buy boards that are donors because they had a bad CPU, or bad PCH, or broken via inside from the manufacturing process. These boards will allow for good component selection.

The second rule is to consider when 100% new is the only thing that will do. If this were a graphics chip, a PCH, a CPU, no way would I install a used chip. That is akin to used underwear, and disgusting. They are terrible chips to begin with half the time, degrading by the minute in the high heat environment they are placed in, and  are lucky to make it to three years. A MOSFET or 10 ohm resistor here and there, particularly on low power lines, that is going to last 20-30 years. They will be just fine looooooooong after everything else in that POS is dead. I'd liken those used items to something like an extension cord... not new, but not something you would "ewww" at using as much as someone else's used underwear.

Warranty on all of these board repairs, if they do come back, is often because the liquid damaged primary problem caused a secondary problem somewhere down the line that wasn't anticipated. In many of these videos, I go over sequence and basic best practices for troubleshooting so repairs last long term. Not just fixing the primary problem, but a manner of thinking where you know what caused your primary problem and what other secondary problems are waiting for you a week down the line. Videos such as the newbies fixing vcore circuit or the many videos on BKL_EN go over these basic concepts. It really is up to the skill and discretion of the person doing the job whether or not the work done is going to last or fall apart in a week. You can usually easily tell whose stuff is lasting and whose is dying a month in. I don't anonymize the videos so viewers are free to look up my track record and see if they feel I'm worth taking advice from.

In terms of flux, it is a bad habit to use too much. Too much beats too little, though, and if you work on 10 layer PCBs that are designed to dissipate heat like these ones, it can be difficult to get a well flowed joint. I feel like a monster whenever I use the same setup on any standard PCB, like I'm going to set it on fire with one touch - so I always have to tone everything down when I work on "normal" product. Most of these boards make a final trip through the ultrasonic cleaner with distilled water and branson EC before they make their way back to customers to remove flux residues.

It's one thing to be frustrated with awful customers. It's another to air your dirty laundry on YouTube like that. Not that I think he's a bad person for it, but he sure as hell sounds like one and I find it exceedingly unpleasant to watch. After seeing this I'd never consider being one of his customers.

This also requires context. The video in question here is one of over five hundred, one of maybe four or five where I discuss deplorable practices in our field in the manner I did. Here, we arrive at the crux of the issue.

To you, I am insulting the customer - the technician who sent this device in for repair.

To me, the technician who represented himself as a qualified member of the electronics repair community, is insulting the customer. He butchered an otherwise perfectly fixable motherboard, shortening its lifespan and potentially destroying it for no good reason. The *REAL* customer is the end user of the device who decided to bring this to a repair store. That is who I have concern for. Not the foolish individual that decided to try to make a quick buck with no concern for the $1000 product he has no idea how to service. I spend about 25-30 hours a week additional on top of my work week to make this content available so people like him are armed with the knowledge, tools, and mindset to do this work properly. It's made available for free.

What if the customer can't afford to purchase a new one? What if this "technician's" actions caused irreversible damage to a device someone else cannot afford to replace? The customer - the real customer - is the person with whom my sympathy lies in this situation.

In the field I work in, there has been a persistent rumor ever since the NVIDIA 52xx days of 12 years ago that you heatgun the video chip when you have no video(or the MCP from the MCP6* days when there is no power/wifi) and that rumor is about as widespread and untrue as WMDs in Iraq. I am trying to hammer into the heads of a very specific niche audience to not do this. An audience that has been told that this is repair for over a decade! It is downright harmful to the gear. It hurts the reputation of everyone in our industry when people who claim to be experts do these terrible things. Customers come back with broken devices and they lose confidence in our craft. They see us as shysters and they create negative mental assocations for the word "refurbished."

iFixit themselves have videos showing you how to fix motherboards using a home depot paint stripper. WildPCS charges $1600 to teach a week-long course where they remove components from cellphones with a $25 wagner heatgun. I've spent seven years politely posting and attempting to educate people on how this makes things worse, and people still do it. Not only will the service center do this, but they'll send it here for repair AFTER they do that, and demand full warranty when something that they fried fails. They will fry this gear using tactics I have politely campaigned against for seven years, then have the gall to say yeah we found you from your blog/youtube/guides on XYZ forum, we love your content! This is where context is key. On year 7 of being ignored, I'll make a comment in a video about it.

It won't be a nice one, and there is reason for it. To the new viewer of my content, starting on this specific 1 of 500+ videos, it seems like an unwarranted bashing of an unsuspecting individual. To someone who has been following the last few years of videos, the years of blogging and forum posts prior to me posting a YouTube channel, it is completely different. My English teacher says "stop talking" differently the first time than he does the twentieth time in class; the same way I will say stop heatgunning the $50 PCH before you've checked for a short to ground on the primary power rail of the machine like I discussed in 57 videos prior differently the seventh year in.

The way I discuss things might detract people, but they're welcome to find another source to figure this out. Seven years ago I would have killed for someone on YT to have laid everything out before I bashed my brain against the wall to figure out whether VCCIO or vcore came first or to discuss the relationship between RTC clock and PM_SLP signals. I still can't find a place on the internet where people answer my  questions on sequence of signals for the series 9 PCH, and I'm willing to pay! Since starting the channel I've seen a huge uprise in people who send in devices they have completely butchered(ironically, ignoring all the advice and techniques I show in the videos). If I am shedding customers as a result of the comments, it's working.  :-+ I don't want that business to begin with.

I work in an industry filled with people that just one year ago, charged $250 to fix an iPhone 6 screen with a knockoff part, when Apple did the same job with original screen for $109. They were 100% against telling the customer they could pay half the price and get a better part by walking one block down the street. A lot of the people in this industry do indeed need to get slapped on the wrist when they do something stupid; and there is no shortage of that stupid in our business. The individual who drastically shortened the life of this motherboard did so for a customer of theirs that thought they were giving their $1000 device to a qualified individual. Technicians who avoid all resources and all logic before taking drastic, negligent, foolish action contribute to why the end consumer hates technology professionals and electronics repairers in general, while contributing nothing to the field. These issues are a big part of why we are not taken seriously by the companies that produce this hardware, and a big part of why we are unable to obtain support from the manufacturers. That s something I seek to change. This starts with weeding out a lot of the ignorance in our own ranks.

The point of this channel was to create a community of well informed technicians armed with techniques, methodologies, and mindsets that can make them a living; as well as allow them to be taken seriously by the professional community. This content was designed to speak to the me of 17 years ago. I want to be able to sit that guy down in front of this channel, have him watch every video, and avoid making a lot of mistakes in repairs, business, and life. I want the 30,000 people currently watching to have that benefit and to accelerate their own learning. That is my goal. They can hate me, what I stand for, how I present... I don't care. Coming off as a lovable character was never on the priorities list. If it dissuades the people watching from using paint strippers on $1000 devices, mission accomplished!

The chips until 2008 had significantly different underfill, and this can be seen with the naked eye(is much brighter). Beyond 2009 has changed underfill. Is it used chip puled from motherboard maded 2007? You do the math.
Time machine? :-DD

I'm not asking for a guide on identifying them.

Where do I buy these brand new chips from a reputable distributor?

When I find out I'll let you know.  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD The biggest problem in this business is that my box of boards with holes in them IS the "reputable distributor." :(

I did get to meet several assemblymen, assemblywomen, and senators last May while lobbying with some amazing folk for the Right to Repair bill in Albany. If this legislation goes forward, manufacturers would be forced to provide SOME level of support to third parties that want to do component level repair. I am very excited about this! With things like Error 53 in the news(which, btw, thousands of people had never even heard of until the video that was linked to on this class action lawsuit page), we are one step closer to reaching that goal.

Yes you are right. The point is that most are available, contrary to what Luis said.

Look at that supposedly "new" chip you got from SEEIC or ebest under a microscope and tell me if you think it's new.

When NVIDIA, AMD, Intersil, and Intel start selling chips to us that are guaranteed new, and binned properly - I'll buy it. Until then.... it's just a bunch of dumpster diving, finger crossing, and praying that anything is actually new. Good luck giving most of the "new" GPUs on the market to people who use their machine for video editing or anything graphics intensive.

For any type of large BGA rework, too much flux is indeed a bad thing. On any large chip BGA rework video I do, I actually apply flux only to the balls of the chip itself through the stencil. Too much flux under the chip will cause it to move around and become misaligned during soldering which is absolutely no good.

When customers receive back machines that last for 14 weeks, they lose confidence in what we do. We get labeled the low quality, "Caveat emptor" option, which I'd like to change. Encouraging people to really think about where these chips come from is a great part of that change.

it doesnt show, thats what ultrasonic bath is for. You can tell what part of the board was worked on only by non patinated solder joints/bodges around.
Did you read studies about electronic pcbs and ultrasonic baths? If you are not very carefull and restrict time and power you can do damage to the components solderconnections.

100% true if you use industrial glass cleaner at 100c(which one of my clients was doing for three years before sending boards to me), which, while we're on the topic here, resulted in this next arrogantly perceived video. :D After three years of telling other people how to do their job better so that they DON'T have to give me money, you might find yourself with the same attitude exhibited in this video. :)



If you follow some basic common sense and use cleaning agents that will not destroy the materials you are putting in them, ultrasonicing is a good thing to do. I like to keep it around 55c, 100 mL of branson EC for every gallon of distilled water, and about one minute per side. The only boards that come out dead are boards whose solder connections amounted to 1/4 or 1/8 of a pad after the rest was corroded. Yes, it did suck to have to spend 40 minutes tracking that down and fixing it properly but it sure beats having the customer come back when that 1/8 of a pad breaks off in the middle of a presentation they were giving to 200 people.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 03:33:31 am by vze1lryy »
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1982
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #174 on: February 11, 2016, 09:52:15 am »
Louis, you rock! Don't let the bastards grind you down.

I've learned so much from your videos that it isn't even funny. I'm "just" a hobbyist and part-time consultant, and usually work with through-hole parts, but I bought a hot-air station and have been doing some contract rework on SMD stuff that I wouldn't even have dared touch before, with 100 percent success (so far, knock on wood). And I really appreciate your business philosophy. Sure, your delivery can be a bit harsh sometimes, but we are all adults here, aren't we? So keep 'em coming and don't hold back.

 :-+
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #175 on: February 11, 2016, 09:54:23 am »
Will you keep reviewing DMMs from other vendors while selling Brymens?

You think I wouldn't?
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #176 on: February 11, 2016, 11:52:25 am »
Will you keep reviewing DMMs from other vendors while selling Brymens?

You think I wouldn't?

I assume that you will have a clear disclosure in each video but it will be awkward regardless, as if a Toyota dealer reviewing Honda cars. The conflict of interest will be hanging there.  It already affected the choice of DMMs that you now show on your bench, Brymens are more visible, and not just your own model.







Drain the swamp.
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #177 on: February 11, 2016, 10:27:57 pm »
I watched a few and it seemed the guy was scared like hell of all of the competition out there.
Just plain scared.

People who haven't watched the content or followed the story, make comments like this one above. That comment represents the exact opposite of my views, and the lowest common denominator of forum trolling; making things up. :(

Three years ago, I hired a technician. I fired him a month later. He did what any young entrepreneur who just lost his job does; opened a store that does exactly what mine does, three blocks away, with slightly lower prices on everything. :) Good on him!

He runs a good shop, but isn't as good at the component level repairs as I am. I have a long head start on him. :) He has a good mind for learning this stuff, but he lacks knowledge and experience when it comes to board repair. Here are just two sessions, on camera, where I sit with him in my spare time and tutor him on how to do better. I am showing him how to repair his own devices, for his own customers.



Here I am at a workshop last year, where I travel away from my business for a week to a room of 12 microscopes, 12 soldering stations, and 12 students of "competitors" to teach them how to compete with me.





Here you can see him and a friend working on their own devices, for their own customers, in my shop room's secondary table. They are using my tools, my electricity, my space, my solder, my parts, to work on their stuff. I encourage it. I enjoy being a member of that type of collaborative community.



Where this scared of competitors business comes from is beyond me. My competitors are not my enemies. In the repair business, your competitors are not your enemies. This has been my mantra for seven years. This is the only business within which people think it is “them or me” . No pizzeria thinks that if another pizzeria opens in a ten mile radius that it will directly cause their doom. It doesn't.. and I've been trying to get that across to repair shop owners who act insecure and defensive on the topic.

I tackle the same issue when it concerns employer/employee relations & side jobs in this video. I encourage employees to do whatever they can do to build their own revenue streams so long as it is done honestly.



I've probably invested more time into helping my competitors than my competitors have invested in themselves. Comments like Bud's that I quoted are just the kinda thing that make obvious who follows the story & who pull statements out of their Massey-Ferguson. ;)

I get it, a lot of people don't like the content I create, and that's cool. I had to take classes that were over 75 hours long with “teachers” who had a lot of attitude, who rambled on with unnecessary, boring, annoying personal stories. They belittled their own students. I took these classes to learn things that had nothing to do with my profession to obtain licenses that are as worthless as toilet paper just so my company would live up to regulations. It was mandatory for what we wanted to do at the time. It sucked.

The great part about component level laptop motherboard repair is that there are no required licensing courses and no required education.

If someone wishes to watch the videos and learn, that's great. If it's not the content for you, I totally respect that – hit X. Just don't put words in the content that aren't there, because that's bullshit. I put a lot of time and effort into presenting the concept of mutually beneficial & friendly competition so our industry stands a chance to be taken seriously. I want us to work together to solve the real issues facing us rather than throw spitballs at one another. Those comments just derail everything, and lack citation or purpose. Just hit X.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 03:07:18 am by vze1lryy »
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #178 on: February 11, 2016, 10:29:29 pm »
Will you keep reviewing DMMs from other vendors while selling Brymens?

You think I wouldn't?

I assume that you will have a clear disclosure in each video but it will be awkward regardless, as if a Toyota dealer reviewing Honda cars. The conflict of interest will be hanging there.  It already affected the choice of DMMs that you now show on your bench, Brymens are more visible, and not just your own model.

Dave is one of the few people with whom I believe there is no conflict of interest. I've only seen six of his videos at this point, but from what I've seen, he seems physically and mentally incapable of not calling something a piece of crap if he believes it is a piece of crap. If he thought it was crap, it'd stop getting sold. He will get in trouble with a vendor waaaaaaay before he will get in trouble with his audience. ;)
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #179 on: February 11, 2016, 11:05:34 pm »
My first experience of Louis was his rant on how reflowing and reballing GPU chips is bulls**t. My first impression was, wow what a scary and brash guy.

BUT, and it is a BIG BUT, I decided to watch more of the videos that Louis has produced. Having now watched many with great interest, I have learnt a great deal about this gentlemans work ethics and repair practices. My view now is that Louis is :

Personable
Ethical
Skilled diagnostic technician
Smart
Very clever business man

In short, he is a really nice guy once you get past the initial shock of some of his slightly brash videos.

With regard to the use of flux, as others have stated, the view we get in the videos is heavily magnified. Using a decent flux and plenty of it ensures that Louis gets the good result that he desires. Judge him by his results rather than exact technique. Louis has himself admitted that his soldering skills are not the greatest..... But they are good enough. The suff he works on is truly tiny and woukd scare many away from working on such PCBs.

I must say that I have really enjoyed watching Louis repairing motherboards in his videos, and also his commentary on the industry, including the bad practices that others are guilty of. I learnt a lot about ultrasonic cleaning from Louis. I do not work with fluid damaged PCBs, but I now know the techniques needed. I will continue to watch Louis's videos and feel sure I will continue to enjoy the content.

I am pleased to see that Louis is a member of this forum.

Louis, I salute you for getting the training you needed to do MB repairs yourself, instead of outsourcing the work to plonkers. I also salute your commitment to the industry by offering training and videos providing the correct diagnostic approaches and techniques.

Louis you are impressive :)

Fraser
(A retired Limey component level repair tech)
UK

 

Offline Cubdriver

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2946
  • Country: us
  • Nixie addict
    • Photos of electronic gear
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2016, 12:51:59 am »
Louis is going to cost me money, because I now want to buy a hot air rework station and an ultrasonic cleaner, purely for hobby use.   |O

His videos - and I've watched quite a few of them now - have made me inclined to try working on surface mount stuff.  Keep up the good work, man - your videos are both educational and entertaining.  People need to grow thicker skins - I see nothing wrong with any of your commentary.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #181 on: February 12, 2016, 01:40:15 am »
My only complaint is he does tend to drone on a bit. But I guess thats those New Yorkers for ya. Content is always great, and as a bench service engineer over 20 years ago before I got into IT, I can fully empathize with the customer expectations, etc.

I had to deal more with knuckle draggers buying TVs and VCRs on the "never never" vs the Manhattan set. Let's just say the customer service disagreements were a little more rambunctious than Louis probably deals with.  :-DD
 

Offline Radio Tech

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
  • KC4UMO Buddy
    • Hobby Forum
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #182 on: February 12, 2016, 01:53:05 am »
When I saw the first of Louis videos linked here I thought to myself "What the heck is this dude on?"
Then I watched more of them and reflected back on years of dealing with other techs and some customers. I owned a TV shop in the early 80's, worked for a TV shop and several land mobile radios companies. A lot of it was cleaning up after other techs.

I now finds his videos educational and entertaining. Although I do not work on the same type of stuff he does.

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #183 on: February 12, 2016, 01:56:50 am »
@ Cubdriver

Buy a decent hot air station. You will not regret it. I have not looked back since getting one. Just bought a hot air pencil for really delicate work as well.

You can also use your hot air station for heating heat shrink tubing and softening plastics for bending :) Really useful tool.

Fraser
 

Offline all_repair

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 654
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #184 on: February 12, 2016, 02:35:14 am »
I am not subscribed now.  Do not want to commend much on the channel either :-)  , the most useful video yo me is the walk through on his gears.  I bought a similar air cleaner (China brand) and it is worthty investment, and shall be getting another one soon.  But   I still cannot find a value-for-money sweep frequency ultrasound cleaner (already loaded with 4 30L fixed frequency ultrasonic cleaners).
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3581
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #185 on: February 12, 2016, 02:40:26 am »
My view now is that Louis is :

Personable
Ethical
Skilled diagnostic technician
Smart
Very clever business man

In short, he is a really nice guy once you get past the initial shock of some of his slightly brash videos.


 I agree. I've learned quite a bit from the few of his videos I've watched.  I see the brashness as just part of  the interesting persona necessary for any successful youtube content producer.

Good job Louis.
 

Offline Cubdriver

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2946
  • Country: us
  • Nixie addict
    • Photos of electronic gear
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #186 on: February 12, 2016, 03:05:15 am »
@ Cubdriver

Buy a decent hot air station. You will not regret it. I have not looked back since getting one. Just bought a hot air pencil for really delicate work as well.

You can also use your hot air station for heating heat shrink tubing and softening plastics for bending :) Really useful tool.

Fraser

Fraser -

I almost pulled the trigger on the Weller one he reviewed & seemed impressed by after watching the video a month or so ago.  It's up there on the list for when I have some extra cash burning a hole in my pocket.  My credit card does not like my taste in tools.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline djacobow

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1066
  • Country: us
  • takin' it apart since the 70's
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #187 on: February 12, 2016, 03:18:19 am »
you can never have too much flux

Falls into the same category as being too rich or too thin.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #188 on: February 12, 2016, 07:54:59 am »
I always thought in NY, time = money and that a 5 to 10 minute video would cover it instead of a one hour video i personally can not watch entirely to the end.
However his results are impressive and I salute him for that.

I do wonder if he could have a business if there was no grey circuit out there with schematics and components, i hate companies that keep those back. In the 80s 90s you could just buy all technical reference manuals no problem. Good old times.
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2016, 08:58:40 am »
This guy actually has some interesting rants. Cool dude - reminds me of my old friends.  He must be from Chicago or NY?  Blah!  :-+
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 09:00:39 am by george graves »
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #190 on: February 12, 2016, 10:42:50 am »
This guy actually has some interesting rants. Cool dude - reminds me of my old friends.  He must be from Chicago or NY?  Blah!  :-+

+1.  I am a subscriber and enjoy his from-the-trenches stories and general perspective on life. He has an episode about bullying if you want to better understand his background. Seems to me as a fine and realistic young man that found his way to independence in a tough and competitive market.

Plenty of F and S bombs though. Is it a New York thing or a personal trait?
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline JoeO

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 525
  • Country: us
  • I admit to being deplorable
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2016, 12:42:18 pm »
This guy actually has some interesting rants. Cool dude - reminds me of my old friends.  He must be from Chicago or NY?  Blah!  :-+

+1.  I am a subscriber and enjoy his from-the-trenches stories and general perspective on life. He has an episode about bullying if you want to better understand his background. Seems to me as a fine and realistic young man that found his way to independence in a tough and competitive market.

Plenty of F and S bombs though. Is it a New York thing or a personal trait?
I also enjoy his videos.

"Is it a New York thing or a personal trait?" - Actually both.
The day Al Gore was born there were 7,000 polar bears on Earth.
Today, only 26,000 remain.
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2016, 12:46:19 pm »
Same here. I found about Louis through this thread and really enjoy his rants... I haven't yet dived too much into the repair videos (been away from the bench due to life happening...) but I can appreciate the knowledge sharing.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #193 on: February 12, 2016, 01:08:19 pm »
With regard to the video run times, I believe Louis has explained this in at least one of his videos. He tends to record them as live streams, warts and all. Post capture editing and encoding can be a time consuming process as I feel sure Dave can attest. Louis is interested in getting his experiences onto YT as quickly as possible. He has a life to live after all.

It is very easy for a viewer to decide whether they want to follow every minute of a video so as not to miss anything, or to fast forwards through less interesting bits. That is what the fast forward facility is for after all.

I am impressed that Louis shares his real world experiences on YT. In such a competitive market, lesser persons would want to keep their knowledge and their processes firmly under wraps. Kudos to Louis for sharing.

And of course there will be people who do not like his techniques etc....... That is no bad thing as it stimulates discussion and the sharing of knowledge on great forums such as this.

It's all good in my book and I personally thank Louis for taking the time to upload his videos and share his life experiences.

As to the language content, I do avoid watching the videos with my wife present but as a real world tech, of 27 years service, such language is not uncommon in the workplace, and I take no offence what so ever. Having visited New York I know that slightly colourful language is not unusual at all.

Fraser

« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 01:13:05 pm by Fraser »
 
The following users thanked this post: wincyj

Offline bookaboo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 607
  • Country: ie
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2016, 05:15:57 pm »
Just posting to say I agree with all the various positive comments above, solid tech advice and entertaining rants.... keep it coming.
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #195 on: February 13, 2016, 08:13:13 am »
Because of this post - I went and watched/listened to some of his rants. This one is long winded, but good.



I know nothing about repairing mac books/ipads/iphones - but I get the feeling that you could start a business just from watching his videos.  That's crazy!  Seems like a lot of trial and error, and reflowing.  Oh and water damage on a complex board - that can't be fun.  Yuck.  I can't find that work attractive at all. 

« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 08:17:57 am by george graves »
 

Online Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9099
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #196 on: February 13, 2016, 08:36:28 am »
Here's the letter!
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #197 on: February 13, 2016, 02:00:42 pm »
Fluid damage appears to be quite a common issue with laptops. Louis has set himself up as a tech who can and will tackle the repair jobs that others either cannot, or do not want to repair. He even tackled a PCB that had been urinated on by a cat......... Yuk ! The corrosion was understandably extensive.

I have worked on water damaged CCTV cameras that 'drowned' in a tropical typhoon. I found that they were beyond economic repair because any component that was connected to the power rails had corroded away through electrolytic action. The cameras were submerged in water overnight but power remained on ! Repairing fluid damaged and corroded PCBs is no fun and not without the risk of repairs bouncing due to undiscovered further corrosion.

With regard to gaining the skills needed to mimic Louis through watching his videos....... Yes and no....... Louis created the videos and his training courses to enable others to do their own in house repairs rather than sending the boards out to repair centres who may, or may not, do a good job. Hence my comment about Louis being generous in sharing his knowledge. BUT, and it's a big BUT, anyone who wishes to emulate Louis and his fast repairs needs to understand basic electronics in order to interpret the symptoms and schematics. They also need to have a steady hand and adequate soldering skills. The size of the components on these PCBs is quite scary for those unused to working on such. Louis also has the advantage of experience and that is worth its weight in gold. He knows what fluid damage can do to a PCB and which components he can risk leaving in place, and those that must be replaced to prevent another failure soon after return to the customer. A classic case is his knowledge that you need a gentle ultrasonic clean to remove the fluid contamination from under BGA chips. Just washing in IPA is apparently not enough.

I have found the videos that Louis produces both informative and entertaining. I only equipped for SMT repair a few years ago and now wonder what I was so worried about. With the right tools and some skills, it is easier than through hole working.

As I said though...... Louis has chosen a niche market, namely Apple laptops that are fluid damaged, and as such he has a solid customer base as others cannot or will not repair such damage. Impressive.

It is also interesting to hear Louis talking about the change in the financial equation relating to the repair of iPhones, and how there is no longer a decent profit worth pursuing. He also states that life is getting harder with the laptops and, when it no longer makes business sense, he will apply his knowledge to a different repair service. With the revelations relating to the iPhone 6 Error 53, one has to wonder whether Apple are going to effectively booby trap their products to prevent people like Loius repairing the kit. One way to put third party repair centres out of business is to provide OEM repair at a lower price than small third party repair centres can afford. A classic example is iPhone 6 screen replacement. As Loius says, Apple have reduced their repair cost to $109 and you keep your warranty etc. This is less than half the price they used to charge. For a third party repair centre, buying the screen through respectable sources costs almost $100 ! There is simply no profit for them to extract from the repair. In fact they would make a loss.

Interesting times and I wish Louis well for the future.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 02:07:45 pm by Fraser »
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #198 on: February 13, 2016, 03:36:40 pm »
For those interested in iPad or iPhone repair there is another channel that may be of interest....

iPad Rehab

The lady presenting the channel is known to Louis and was a stay at home mom who decided she would learn how to repair Apple products. I make no comment on the quality of the Channel as I have yet to watch a few videos before forming an opinion.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 04:13:09 pm by Fraser »
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #199 on: February 14, 2016, 12:14:14 pm »
One thing I noticed in Louis's videos is that he doesn't use static control. No wrist strap, no anti static mat, etc.
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31905
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #200 on: February 14, 2016, 01:26:06 pm »
With regard to the video run times, I believe Louis has explained this in at least one of his videos. He tends to record them as live streams, warts and all. Post capture editing and encoding can be a time consuming process as I feel sure Dave can attest. Louis is interested in getting his experiences onto YT as quickly as possible. He has a life to live after all.

If I wanted to pump out several videos a day, or had other commitments etc, then I'd be doing the live stream stuff too.
In Louis's case it's exactly what you should do. Same for Chris Gammel's Contextual Electronics course.
But for most of the stuff I do I find recording many short clips and post editing a better method that of course ultimately produces a much better result.
Editing is not the huge amount of time as most people seem to assume.
Even a 1 hour video with hundreds of clips, doesn't take much longer than the video itself to edit. So maybe 90 minutes tops for 60 minutes worth of footage, a bit longer if I have to gather and insert screen captures etc.
I notice jump cuts in many of Louis's videos that seem to be post edited, they don't seem to be a recording pause button?


 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15425
  • Country: za
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #201 on: February 14, 2016, 02:42:14 pm »
One thing I noticed in Louis's videos is that he doesn't use static control. No wrist strap, no anti static mat, etc.

NYC is pretty humid, so natural static control. Note he uses a dehumidifier indoors for air control, and uses air filters to get dust and dirt out. Humid air is free static control.
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #202 on: February 14, 2016, 10:06:56 pm »
Humid air is free static control.
This is a joke right? Tell me you are not serious?
Ever heard that pure demineralised or condensated water does NOT conduct electricity?
Do you really think that moist in the air has impurities in it?  :palm:
Humid air conducts not a single electron and is useless for any static discharge prevention.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #203 on: February 14, 2016, 10:16:52 pm »
The conductivity of pure water is not zero; a few places I checked agree that the conductivity of pure water is about 6uS/m, which is quite significant for dissipating small amounts of charge. Couldn't find anything on the conductivity of humid air, but it'll certainly be higher than that of dry air with the quite conductive water added.

Also consider that it's not just the humid air that dissipates charge (in fact you may be correct about its contribution being negligible), it'll be the moisture that air adds to surfaces...

Anecdotally, static shocks around the house are way worse when the air is dry...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 10:18:46 pm by c4757p »
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Cubdriver

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2946
  • Country: us
  • Nixie addict
    • Photos of electronic gear
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #204 on: February 14, 2016, 10:19:04 pm »
Humid air is free static control.
This is a joke right? Tell me you are not serious?
Ever heard that pure demineralised or condensated water does NOT conduct electricity?
Do you really think that moist in the air has impurities in it?  :palm:
Humid air conducts not a single electron and is useless for any static discharge prevention.

And yet strangely, in the wintertime when the air is dry I can't seem to move without generating a static charge that results in a spark when I touch something grounded, and this never seems to occur in the summertime, when it's much more humid.  Simply an observation.  (Though I'd think it gets pretty dry in NYC this time of year too - I'm only 50 miles or so away)

-Pat

Edit - fix typo
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 11:49:46 pm by Cubdriver »
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Offline helius

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3059
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #205 on: February 14, 2016, 10:23:13 pm »
Conductivity is completely irrelevant. Humid air is full of floating particles that can carry charge: their electrostatic attraction and repulsion forces are what neutralize static charged surfaces, similar to an ion generator.
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #206 on: February 15, 2016, 04:17:29 am »
I notice jump cuts in many of Louis's videos that seem to be post edited, they don't seem to be a recording pause button?

I started this channel out of frustration with the lack of educational videos on YouTube for this subject matter. Most were promotional, watch me do something at 20x speed with techno music, or watch me do it with the camera in the corner of the room, and not explain anything. Then at the end they show something working. Those videos sucked! They were 2-5 minutes but  they sucked. I searched for information, I found the video, and I learned nothing. It was just noise.

I figured I would do the opposite. You can see the mistakes, the decisions I make in the troubleshooting process, the thought process that leads to that decision, what tools make things easier vs. harder. I went for the closest thing there was to interactive experience, so no editing. I get a lot of comments that YouTube is for short videos and that my channel will fail with long videos, but I log in and see that my average viewtime is ten minutes per video. So on average a viewer spends more time watching one of these than double the entire length of other videos. On the 1, 2, and 3 hour board debugging videos 24% to 33% of the viewers watch the entire thing from beginning to end, which shocks me... people actually get home at 7 at night and sit there until 10 watching me screw with some motherboard. What a world. :)

The edits are only when a customer walks in, I answer the phone, or have to go to the bathroom. For the most part it is all live, sans me cutting out myself taking a whiz. The wireless mic setup got me in trouble with that a couple of times.. talk about embarrassing reuploads!
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #207 on: February 15, 2016, 04:20:13 am »
In terms of static, since I have already been discredited as an engineer and technician ;)

I don't do much for ESD protection besides common sense. i sit next to something that is grounded, I regularly touch it. If it is one of those days where I feel static everytime I touch something, I make it a habit to touch that grounded item. I do not grab boards by the top/bottom, I grab by edges. I don't have a cat sitting on my shoulder nuzzling me while wearing outdoor jacket during the videos...

ESD is something. If I were at a processor fabrication plant, or doing data recovery on flash memory, I might care more. But at this level, just basic awareness of environment does it for me.

In terms of a wrist strap, if I had to attach and reattach something everytime I had to move I would probably find a new profession. I would fix nothing, and then the real damage to this equipment would occur, when all of it went to some Apple store where they throw $1000s into ewaste bin everytime a single TON resistor leading to a buck controller IC blows..
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #208 on: February 15, 2016, 04:46:26 am »
I would fix nothing, and then the real damage to this equipment would occur, when all of it went to some Apple store where they throw $1000s into ewaste bin everytime a single TON resistor leading to a buck controller IC blows..

:clap:

Okay, whatever I may have said about your videos... you get serious props from me for being one of the few people in the electronics industry who actively reduce waste instead of adding to it. :-+
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #209 on: February 15, 2016, 05:25:11 am »
Just watched another three of Louis's videos this evening. Once again I found them interesting and informative.

I have subscribed and must say that I am thoroughly enjoying all of the videos that I have watched.

Many thanks Louis for going to the trouble to produce these entertaining videos, and for spending your hard earned cash on decent AV equipment in order to make them.

Fraser
 

Offline lukaq

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Country: si
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #210 on: February 15, 2016, 09:37:05 am »
I have subscribed and must say that I am thoroughly enjoying all of the videos that I have watched.
Same here

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #211 on: February 15, 2016, 11:24:23 am »
The conductivity of pure water is not zero; a few places I checked agree that the conductivity of pure water is about 6uS/m, which is quite significant for dissipating small amounts of charge. Couldn't find anything on the conductivity of humid air, but it'll certainly be higher than that of dry air with the quite conductive water added.
Yes theoretically it might conduct badly. BUT would you seriously recommend something like that as a professional and viable solution to an ESD problem.
Would you advise using humid air in a ESD workplace risking thousands of $ on components?
You do know the ESD guideline is around 1M resistance between body and ground?
This kind of BS should be stopped as soon as possible or newbies and other people will make another myth of this that has to be busted.  :--
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #212 on: February 15, 2016, 12:51:32 pm »
The conductivity of pure water is not zero; a few places I checked agree that the conductivity of pure water is about 6uS/m, which is quite significant for dissipating small amounts of charge. Couldn't find anything on the conductivity of humid air, but it'll certainly be higher than that of dry air with the quite conductive water added.
Yes theoretically it might conduct badly. BUT would you seriously recommend something like that as a professional and viable solution to an ESD problem.
Would you advise using humid air in a ESD workplace risking thousands of $ on components?
You do know the ESD guideline is around 1M resistance between body and ground?
This kind of BS should be stopped as soon as possible or newbies and other people will make another myth of this that has to be busted.  :--
Despite elevated air humidity reduces the number of triboelectric discharges perceived by us, ICs can be damaged with a lot less voltage than the kV we can feel. On the other hand, humid air allows for a lot less static charge buildup on the surroundings. Therefore the idea is not entirely ludicrous but the key concern is having a reliable protection and how much it matters for your day-to-day activities.

In case of a repair shop, this may be a red herring or not, as such damages could potentially be covered under warranty (Fix --> Works --> Two-days-later: broken with no visible cause), unless the discharge causes damage that will manifest only after a very long time (where it becomes very hard to find the exact root cause). If you see yourself re-doing work all the time on devices that broken after a few days with no apparent reason, you may want to consider adopting additional ESD safety measurements as one more barrier against losing money (and reputation) in re-work.

In terms of a wrist strap, if I had to attach and reattach something everytime I had to move I would probably find a new profession. I would fix nothing, and then the real damage to this equipment would occur, when all of it went to some Apple store where they throw $1000s into ewaste bin everytime a single TON resistor leading to a buck controller IC blows..
Louis, in my experience you end up getting used to attach-retach the damn thing all the time, but it is a nuisance - in your particular setup an ESD ionizer is probably a lot more convenient, provided you keep the current grounding procedures you already do. These things are in the range of hundreds of dollars, but if you have the inclination and time you can always make one yourself for cheap (mine uses PC power supply case and generates about 6kV).
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline vinicius.jlantunes

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: br
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #213 on: February 15, 2016, 01:04:15 pm »
Why not use one of those wireless ESD wrist straps?  8)

(just kidding of course)

Online Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9099
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #214 on: February 15, 2016, 01:18:05 pm »
I would think ESD grounding straps on your shoes would be fairly effective, in conjunction with an ESD floor mat at the bench, as its rare to be sitting working at a bench without at least one foot on the floor.   Of course it doesn't offer the grounding integrity of a wrist-strap, but it would be far superior to the current situation.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #215 on: February 15, 2016, 02:00:26 pm »
For what it's worth, like Louis I've found "just using common sense" to be good protection against ESD. I made a conscious effort about a year or so ago to become more aware of ESD hazards in the lab, and since then I have not fried a single thing. None of this 'awareness' involved a grounding strap. I just pay attention to my likely potential with respect to a device I'm about to touch (am I heavily insulated from it, like by wearing thick shoes? have I done anything to pick up charge, like walking across carpet?), and make an effort to equalize my potential with the environment around the item before touching it.

If I carry an item to the workbench, I keep away from the item's conductors, and set it onto the ESD mat for safe discharge before grounding myself to a scope BNC or something.

If I carry an item away from the workbench, I make contact with its largest conductive/grounded bulk as I walk, so as to equalize charge with myself (next best thing to a slow discharge at destination, since the destination has no ESD mat this time). At the destination I discharge again while still holding it, so any ESD that does flow goes through me and then goes into the device's ground, which on anything with decent grounding is one of the least susceptible nodes. Probably helps as well that I'm almost never wearing shoes, so the isolation voltage between me and the area around me is relatively low ;D
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #216 on: February 15, 2016, 04:25:44 pm »
For what it's worth, like Louis I've found "just using common sense" to be good protection against ESD. I made a conscious effort about a year or so ago to become more aware of ESD hazards in the lab, and since then I have not fried a single thing. None of this 'awareness' involved a grounding strap. I just pay attention to my likely potential with respect to a device I'm about to touch (am I heavily insulated from it, like by wearing thick shoes? have I done anything to pick up charge, like walking across carpet?), and make an effort to equalize my potential with the environment around the item before touching it.

If I carry an item to the workbench, I keep away from the item's conductors, and set it onto the ESD mat for safe discharge before grounding myself to a scope BNC or something.

If I carry an item away from the workbench, I make contact with its largest conductive/grounded bulk as I walk, so as to equalize charge with myself (next best thing to a slow discharge at destination, since the destination has no ESD mat this time). At the destination I discharge again while still holding it, so any ESD that does flow goes through me and then goes into the device's ground, which on anything with decent grounding is one of the least susceptible nodes. Probably helps as well that I'm almost never wearing shoes, so the isolation voltage between me and the area around me is relatively low ;D
c4757p, if I haven't missed anything the procedure you are adopting seems ok for the most part. The main idea of ESD protective measures is to prevent these charges from building up as most as possible, as well as protecting the things against human error. Think of it as simply a more straightforward way to protect the equipment: for example, packing a board in a protective bag in the dissipative mat takes your mind away from not touching exposed copper - that and the typical Murphy's hazards (tripping, "ulnar nerve" syndrome, etc.)

Holding a board or IC by its insulated surroundings can still be a hazard if your body builds up charge (by wearing certain cloth materials or scratching your head, for example). The board or IC will have an induced charge, which is fine until by happenstance they "interact violently" with their surroundings. Again, it is just a matter of taking your mind off any potential hazards.

Other common things also buildup charge in a board or IC's surroundings: certain plastics, paper, etc. all can induce charge on nearby neutral boards and ICs. Having grounded dissipative mat or carts (to haul away test gear, for example) is another way to take your mind away from all this.

All that said, even in my workplace the vast majority of boards are cheapies that use modern ICs that have good protection on their inputs (at least when compared to their NMOS grandparents of yore). These factors make such protective measures an almost complete red herring, but the problem is that Murphy will bite you when handling the "one of a kind" or "ultra-expensive" board or gear.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline vze1lryy

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #217 on: February 16, 2016, 01:31:16 am »
Why not use one of those wireless ESD wrist straps?  8)

(just kidding of course)

I got that as a birthday gift almost ten years ago.
Louis Rossmann
Component level motherboard repair technician.
 

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 11972
  • Country: lv
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #218 on: February 16, 2016, 01:39:44 am »
Humid air is free static control.
This is a joke right? Tell me you are not serious?
Ever heard that pure demineralised or condensated water does NOT conduct electricity?
Do you really think that moist in the air has impurities in it?  :palm:
Humid air conducts not a single electron and is useless for any static discharge prevention.
Humid Air is the best thing to prevent static. Actually in ESD safe area you are not allowed to have air humidity below a certain level.
http://www.esdsystems.com/whitepapers/wp_humidity.html

 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5902
  • Country: nl
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #219 on: February 16, 2016, 06:29:31 am »
Ok then I was wrong and humid air does reduce the buildup of static charge.

Which does not mean it is enough to prevent ESD in electronic circuits or is enough in it self or should be preached as such.
Anyone serious about ESD is wearing straps and takes other known precautions.
 

Offline Muxr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1346
  • Country: us
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #220 on: February 16, 2016, 08:13:57 am »
Ok then I was wrong and humid air does reduce the buildup of static charge.

Which does not mean it is enough to prevent ESD in electronic circuits or is enough in it self or should be preached as such.
Anyone serious about ESD is wearing straps and takes other known precautions.
I used to live in a really dry climate, and now I live in humid climate. I used to always feel static discharge when I lived in dry climate. I have never felt static discharge here. Now I realise that doesn't mean I can't still damage components when handling them, but I think the chances are significantly reduced.

Shariar (The Signal Path) did a tour of the LeCroy factory and there is a particular shot of the mist being shot onto the factory floor to combat ESD. I didn't see many workers wearing straps either, one lady handling components did.

https://youtu.be/U3w_EWgGQuk?t=5427

Some of these are $1M scopes btw. I don't wear a strap, unless I am handling expensive/sensitive components.
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #221 on: February 16, 2016, 11:58:30 am »
Shariar (The Signal Path) did a tour of the LeCroy factory and there is a particular shot of the mist being shot onto the factory floor to combat ESD. I didn't see many workers wearing straps either, one lady handling components did.
In places where a person works standing or is in constant move, straps are not required BUT must be replaced by other measures to prevent static buildup (shoe straps, ionizers, dissipative mats, etc.). Also, the scenario is similar if the person is working close to moving machinery - the only difference is that straps cannot be used.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9762
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #222 on: February 16, 2016, 03:46:23 pm »
Wow this thread has turned into one of those ESD precautions debates. Always a risky topic, as people can be very passionate about it. It almost deserves its own thread ?

Play nice now :)

Fraser
 

Offline Macbeth

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2562
  • Country: gb
Re: Rossmann's repair videos. Using tons of liquid flux for no apparent reason?
« Reply #223 on: February 16, 2016, 11:43:24 pm »
Ok then I was wrong and humid air does reduce the buildup of static charge.

Which does not mean it is enough to prevent ESD in electronic circuits or is enough in it self or should be preached as such.
Anyone serious about ESD is wearing straps and takes other known precautions.
I totally agree. I also always throw salt over my shoulder and don't walk under ladders when I am serious.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf