Author Topic: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station  (Read 10330 times)

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Offline SuzyC

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Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« on: December 25, 2014, 03:11:57 am »
I know this a double post, posted under Project.., but my questions concerns both repair and a new project idea.

My questions is three questions. I like to build my own equipment to save money and I need a new soldering station or at least a handle. I don't like the $100-$150 price of a new Hakko station when I think I can use the old parts left over from my dying station to make my own if I buy a good handle. After 14-years, my old analog handle is falling apart, even though the first handle lasted for 7-years and the second tip in the replacement handle is still well-tinned and working fine.

Fact 1: I must build my own controller, the old iron used a thermistor instead of a thermocouple for temp sensing. I assume the Hakko models all use a thermocouple for sensing.

Question 1:
Does anyone know if what vendor of Hakko soldering handles selling for less than $10 on Ebay are the real thing?
Do they have silicone cables and Hakko ceramic elements. They look like the real thing.

Question 2:
Are Hakko soldering tips long-lasting and easy to buy?  Always a problem with soldering handles: the availability, life and price of replacement nibs. My old soldering handle tip has lasted 14-yrs even though I did tons of removing old parts from salvaged equipment and built all my many projects with it! Before that I had a Weller TCP station that would lose its tining quick, I used up a tip a month just because I left the iron on, not even using it most of the time, while I worked on my projects.

Question 3: How hard could it be to breadboard a temperature controller using the thermocouple output of the handle?
Should be easy to make my own soldering station with the transformer left over from my dying analog soldering station.

I think I can I think I can!

I need a Hakko schematic.

It seems all I need to do is breadboard a thermocouple amplifier, gain of two series op amps approx 500, even just using a LM358 amplifier and then feed the output to A2D input on my PIC 10-bit A2D MCU, and with a stable reference of the PIC A2D I should be able to adjust the on/off time based on low/above temperature of the iron tip thermocouple. I then shut off the PWM or phase control of the heating element, wait a few millisecs and get a reading every tenth of a sec.

 After all, soldering is a little like cooking, soldering does not need to keep the temperature precisely at the melting point, a few degrees above and dithering about should work, or so I think!

I have bouht a thermocouple type replacement generic analog handle(sans controller, I bought it because I just needed the handle parts to repair my old crumbled handle) and I see about 7mV of output voltage(just needs a little amplification before a2d'ing it) around the melting point of eutectic Pb-Sn solder, so what's the problem to get something to work with a simple pot to adjust the tip temperature?

What about this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FM2028-24V-70W-Soldering-Iron-Handle-for-Solder-Station-FX-951-Eesy-replace-/291335240078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d4eef98e

Or this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAKKO907-Soldering-Station-Iron-Handle-Soldering-TIPS-Welding-cleaning-sponge-/181571139172?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a467bb664
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 09:58:29 am by SuzyC »
 

Offline wiss

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2014, 11:16:53 am »
I bought a 907 for 5.82 + 1.99 € of ebay, looks like the real thing to me when I hold it, and it works in my 926 base.

Where can one get the conector? And what is the pinout for it?
 

Offline SuzyC

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2014, 02:41:50 pm »
Wiss, you can figure out the pinout easily with a DVM ohmeter.

The heating element is typically around 10-12 ohms and its resistance changes just a bit with temperature.
The temperature sensor is either a thermistor or a thermocouple, easy to tell the difference. The thermocouple has a resistance of less than an ohm, the thermistor, at room temperature will be many more ohms. If you heat the iron with a stovetop or a lighter, you can see the resistance change rapidly. Two wires for the thermocouple/thermistor, two for the heater, 1 connects to the shell and outside metal of the soldering tip. If you connect the thermocouple to the mV range of  your DVM  you can see a few mV and when the temperature increases, you see several millivolts at something near soldering temperature.

As far as getting the connector, the easiest way is to purchase the whole handle with the correct connector, otherwise  you will pay something too close to the cost of the soldering handle just to buy one connector with shipping costs and min. order charges from something like Mouser or Digikey etc. If you have the old soldering handle, transfer the connector, just figure out some way to solder the connections without having your soldering iron working!

Alternatively, Google Hakko schematic and you will see the pinout in several of the schematics.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 02:46:26 pm by SuzyC »
 

Offline Yago

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Offline SuzyC

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2014, 04:20:12 pm »
What I am  hoping is that someone might have bought one of these items and could relate their experience. Sometimes you get something good for cheap, buying wine is like that, and higher price doesn't always increase quality and economy items are sometimes a good choice.

Having heard from someone who has already experienced buying any of the above items could very much help to make the right decision, otherwise I am buying the pig in the poke.

I must make a decision today if I am to give myself a Xmas present:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LCD-Power-Comfort-Soldering-Station-Adjustable-New-Product-/381058706006?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item58b8de6a56

Hope it works!
 

Offline wiss

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2014, 06:48:34 pm »
I can post pictures of mine when I get back home, saturday or so.
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2014, 08:57:59 pm »
I must make a decision today if I am to give myself a Xmas present:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-LCD-Power-Comfort-Soldering-Station-Adjustable-New-Product-/381058706006?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item58b8de6a56

I do not recommend this station. It is obviously like the Velleman  vtssc40n. I have this one. It just breaks down after  2 years.
It seems that the  iron is out. I dismounted it, but you cannot change the heating element. It seems that you have to buy a full new iron, and they are much more expensive than the (fake) Hakko on ebay.
You can find a fake hakko 936 board on ebay  for very cheap, and you will use your transformer.
I also did that, but I prefer another board from ebay which  uses a computer power supply.
This one uses also Hakko soldering irons, but  heats much faster than the (fake) Hakko 936 , or the Velleman vtssc40n,
although it may depends on the voltage of your power supply.
The link is
http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Soldering-Station-Digital-DC-Controller-for-HAKKO-936-Compatible-907-Iron-Handle-/140728043102?_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
I could have bought a real Hakko soldering iron, but it was difficult to find them at decent price here in France.

Just a final world : Most probably, all the hakko tips sold on ebay are fake, even if they are engraved with the kakko brand, and with a hakko bag. I would trust a hakko tip only from a reputable reseller.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 09:00:30 pm by JacquesBBB »
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2014, 11:16:35 pm »
Does anyone know if what vendor of Hakko soldering handles selling for less than $10 on Ebay are the real thing?
Do they have silicone cables and Hakko ceramic elements. They look like the real thing.

I have to suggest that if it doesn't have a real Hakko price it won't be real Hakko item. How do you propose a genuine Hakko part could be purchased from Hakko and resold by a dealer for less than $10?
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline SuzyC

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2014, 11:28:04 pm »
Thanx for the hot tips!

I once had a chance to take a tour of a multi-billion dollar telecom firbe optic company that was sub-contracting injection molded devices for other world-class vendors, such as Agilent, for example. They had a few machines in a dedicated part of a warehouse that had been robotically programmed to perform all steps of the manufacturing progress, all the way from plastic pellets to final packaging. Robots placed raw materials and picked up the finished item and then placed in the domain of the next robot, all the way from the injection molding machine doing the shaping jobs for each piece, to the final robot that carefully packaged the finished goods, applied the appropriate labels and plastic bags and bar codes and then placed it shipping cartons ready for shipping.

It could be that it is possible that Hakko outsources the handle(plastic molding equipment is very expensive and robotically controlled injection molding is very cheap and efficient compared to human labor 'cause a robot works 24-7 for many days without any servicing) and other Hakko imitators would find the source very willing to have more business.  The worldwide market for hobby and even professional soldering stations in rather thin and competition is high. Most soldering is done by the whole PCB board, hand soldering is inefficient and costly for mfg's.

If I can get an imitation that smells like a Hakko, looks like a Hakko and probably works like a Hakko, then it is Hakko enough for me and  I can't help but try to handle a handle at $10 a shot.

It's only soldering, not life support. It's Hakko, not Gucci!

Even two years of use ain't bad for $10. Maybe someone got an imitation imitation.

I see a Hakko 8801 handle (used with 888D) for approx $15, another site sells them for only $115.  Fascinating, I can buy the whole station for less than that. I think I will order the $15 model when I am ready..hope I don't get burnt!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 12:17:34 am by SuzyC »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2014, 12:08:16 am »
"If I can get an imitation that smells like a Hakko, looks like a Hakko and probably works like a Hakko, then it is Hakko enough for me and  I can't help but try to handle a handle at $10 a shot."

It may look like a Hakko and smell like a Hakko but it certainly won't work like a Hakko, especially the tips.  'Hakko' tips for a dollar are junk.  I have a real 936 and paid the price for real tips-nothing bought on eBay.  I don't solder everyday, but I bought my tips 5 years ago and they still work just fine.  I do my due diligence in caring for them.  The handle's performance will not be as good, but you can compensate somewhat with real Hakko tips for real Hakko prices.  I understand the attempt at saving money, but good isn't cheap and cheap isn't good.  There is no way around it.
That which doesn't kill you still requires a co-pay.
 

Offline SuzyC

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2014, 12:13:00 am »
An urologist once told me that not all tips are the same, and a waitress that wanted to be a movie star later told me the same, but thanks for the good tips about bad tips anyway.

I understand that cheap is sometimes very good, and so there is, in fact, a way around it..but I agree it is not always the case.

As a mime friend once wrote to me, "There are good imitators and bad imitators, but I won't say a word about it!"
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 12:32:37 am by SuzyC »
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2014, 01:54:30 am »
Hakko products shipped from Chinese websites or from China on Ebay are not genuine, they aren't Hakko dealers.

If you want to buy a cheap station to start modding your own Hakko design then get a Yihua 936 from Hobby King ($14 or so), it's based on the analog interface Hakko 936 which preceded the Hakko FX-888 and Fx-888D.

You can buy genuine Hakko tips, elements (the parts that do the work) and upgrade the iron and station as you like. Such as a new enclosure with SMPS, multiple iron support, silicone leads. Or just after you purchase your favorite genuine tip be happy having spent only $20.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 01:56:17 am by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2014, 02:50:43 am »
Hakko products shipped from Chinese websites or from China on Ebay are not genuine, they aren't Hakko dealers.

I bought a grab bag of Hakko tips all in plastic baggies and laser scribed from eBay. Seems pretty genuine to me. You can see the sleeve lining and the finish is smooth with no pits.
 

Offline JacquesBBB

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2014, 03:13:57 am »
Just go back to the discussion on the comparison on fake and genuine hakko tips on eevblog
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/genuine-vs-fake-hakko-solder-tip/15/
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2014, 05:30:45 am »
Hakko products shipped from Chinese websites or from China on Ebay are not genuine, they aren't Hakko dealers.

I bought a grab bag of Hakko tips all in plastic baggies and laser scribed from eBay. Seems pretty genuine to me. You can see the sleeve lining and the finish is smooth with no pits.

The numbers tell me if you brought new tips at around $1 or cheaper you either were extremely lucky or brought good looking fakes. You can provide more details like when and who you brought them from, what price and shipping you paid and photos and measurements.

The genuine tips are around $5 US dollars a piece for the cheapest ones. So dealer price is certainly higher than $1, and probably under $3.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2014, 01:58:20 pm »
Shock is in the money, so to speak.  I recall paying about $6-7 USD each for my tips.  SuzyC, you seem set on getting the cheap tips.  Hope you aren't too disappointed.
That which doesn't kill you still requires a co-pay.
 

Offline wiss

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2014, 01:01:47 pm »
The 907 would be a fake?
Well, still not a rip-off for me (but for hakko).

Ebay-link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/251583276100?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I paid 5.82 + 1.99 €
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 01:03:21 pm by wiss »
 

Offline crystal

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2014, 01:23:58 pm »
I have a really good Hakko rip off handle but with a genuine hakko heater. It is not made from a cheap plastic, the screw on the heaeter side is made from bakelite and can't melt. You can find them on ebay, they are described as a hakko heater and costs about 25USD. They are two types or hakko iron handles rip-off, cheaper ones for 5USD and these good quality ones: http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-75W-Soldering-Iron-Blue-Handle-Hakko-heater-5pin-for-Yihua-Rework-Stations-/231412194188?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e13ddb8c

It came with a YIHUA 862D+ station and it has a samsung microcontoller for handle. It is 75W and heats up very quickly in about 10 seconds or less. Only prob is I can't find the genuine hakko tips anywhere, the one that came with the handle are really bad quality made of steel. I bought some cheap copper ones from ebay and they are average quality probably not clean copper.

See this link also, two types or handles exists: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yihua-939BD-75W-Soldering-Station-SMD-Lotstation-Lotkolben-Hakko-heater-/321606107462?pt=DE_Haus_Garten_Heimwerker_Elektrowerkzeuge&hash=item4ae137c146
« Last Edit: December 27, 2014, 01:25:50 pm by crystal »
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2014, 01:39:14 pm »
Wiss, it probably is, even at that price.  The Hakko 936 with the 907 seems to be the most copied of all.  The best way to get genuine Hakko is from an authorized distributor.  Authorized Hakko distributors tend not to sell on eBay IME.  I could be wrong on this and will cheerfully accept rebuttal.

"New: Other (See Description): New, unused item, without signs of wear. The original packaging may not available or open. Article is' 2. Choice, "B-stock or new, unused, but with minor defects. . For more details, eg exact description of any errors or omissions in the offer of the Seller."

The way I read it, if these are genuine Hakko, and I doubt it, they are basically factory seconds or rejects.  OR, they can be clones and the seller has put Hakko compatible prices on them to try to fool buyers.  I believe that came from an eBay seller in Germany, here is an authorized German Hakko dealer-- http://www.kullik.com/

My Hakko 936 and tips didn't come from eBay.  I paid the prices and am very satisfied.  The only way I will stop using it is if I upgrade to Metcal/THermaltronics/JBC.  I don't expect it to fail and require a replacement.
That which doesn't kill you still requires a co-pay.
 

Offline Alex Eisenhut

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2014, 02:10:00 pm »
Hakko products shipped from Chinese websites or from China on Ebay are not genuine, they aren't Hakko dealers.

I bought a grab bag of Hakko tips all in plastic baggies and laser scribed from eBay. Seems pretty genuine to me. You can see the sleeve lining and the finish is smooth with no pits.

The numbers tell me if you brought new tips at around $1 or cheaper you either were extremely lucky or brought good looking fakes. You can provide more details like when and who you brought them from, what price and shipping you paid and photos and measurements.

The genuine tips are around $5 US dollars a piece for the cheapest ones. So dealer price is certainly higher than $1, and probably under $3.

Sigh. I couldn't find the transaction on my account. eBay has been rearranging itself over the last few months. It must have been over two years ago and I don't recall the price. It was a bag of one of every Hakko tip. They're mostly still in their baggies and I tried just a few of them.

The few known real Hakko tips I have (from the original purchase of the two stations from the local disty) look exactly the same.

I should have weighed them I guess but they're both used now.
 

Offline wiss

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2014, 12:25:45 pm »
I ordered a few tips a while ago, the never showed here, here is the ebay-page:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/230900505801?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Now I request a full refund from the seller (mvrwin).
 

Offline iugamarian

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Re: Help Me Making a Hakko Soldering Station
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2017, 06:21:48 pm »
[...]
I do not recommend this station. It is obviously like the Velleman  vtssc40n. I have this one. It just breaks down after  2 years.
[...]

I fixed my Velleman  vtssc40n, processor AT89C2051 can't simulate ADC any more, has a fried port. Removed the board, transformer specification 0-12-24 but it's actually 0-12-26. Used 12 as median, on 0 which became 12V added Schottky diode Uf=0.525V, on 26 which became 14V added rectifier diode Uf=1.7V. Connected without filter capacitor directly to soldering iron heater, about 12V rectified instead of 24V. Works very well, temperature stays at 360 degrees Celsius. No temperature control required. Low cost repair.
 


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