Author Topic: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE  (Read 2085 times)

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Offline edy

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SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« on: July 17, 2016, 06:57:34 pm »
I have noticed once of the sterilization/washing equipment in an office is not drying things after the wash cycle. So I entered the diagnostics menus and tried individual component testing, and noted an awful noise from the dryer/heater unit. When I opened up the cabinet and checked again, it was obvious that the motor was seizing. See video below:




The service manual is here, see page 59:

http://www.scicancanada.ca/site/scican/assets/pdf/scican_hydrim_l110w_service_manual_na_en.pdf

I've also attached some photos. My question is, does this look like a motor issue or do you suspect something wrong with the actual driving electronic circuitry? I'm not sure what type of motor and dryer assembly is being used. My first choice is to just order the part #01-109142S (dryer assembly) and just swap it in and out. It is simply hooked up to the exhaust hose (orange hose) by a hose clamp. The 3 connectors just snap on/off. So changing it is easy. I just want to make sure it is definitely a motor issue and not a driving circuit problem.

The other thing, right now the machine is still in use. There is no fault detection when the dryer is seized up. It just sits there making a noise. I have reduced the dryer time in the settings to 1 minute (default is 10 minutes) to hopefully minimize damage. I could simply disconnect the leads to the dryer completely. Is the driver circuitry going to be damaged trying to turn a seized motor?

Note.... this motor is likely to have been functioning this way for months, nobody alerted me until recently when they noticed the drying was not doing well, and apparently nobody thought the noise was an issue either. The drying happens at the end of  an instrument washing cycle and nobody is paying attention because it is in a separate room.

Thoughts? I've ordered the dryer motor/heater assembly. It basically looks like a blow-dryer (a blower motor with heating coil on the exhaust). Can anyone explain the 3-wire configuration? It looks to be 240V, the 3 wires handle both motor and heater. Thanks.
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Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 07:16:01 pm »
I almost forgot.... If this is a motor issue, is this something I can physically fix in the motor? Why does it start up and then die? Any ideas? Is it a problem with the contactor suppressor? Is it a problem with the current being drawn from the motor controller or capacitor, overload protector? I'm at a loss to explain this.

Looking more at the failure modes of motors, I am wondering if there is a starting capacitor involved in this circuit. I don't see anything next to the actual motor, except for the suppression cap. Still, I wonder if it is responsible. If there is a starting cap, it may be all the way back on the motor controller board, but I did not see any issues physically. If not the starting cap, maybe the running cap. Until I figure out more about how this motor works and the specs, I won't know.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 08:21:04 pm by edy »
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Offline xygor

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2016, 09:38:23 pm »
Three wires: one is common neutral, one is motor power, one is heater power.  There is no starting capacitor.  I would guess that it is a brushed universal motor, because that's where a suppression capacitor is usually used.  I think that the control switch is a relay, so it should be ok.  It might be that the control logic is stopping the motor for some reason, but that should give an error code.  Sometimes motors will get get gummed up and start to turn and then freeze.  I think this might be due to a solenoid effect;  the armature gets pulled to a place where the bearing is sticky.
 

Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 02:22:51 am »
Thanks, I'll try the simple motor swap first and if it works I'll take apart the failed motor and see if I can clean it up. I can't seem to find a source for spec sheet for these, I need to look more for the supplier this company used. I'm sure they didn't manufacture the fan/heater unit themselves. I wonder if Grainger carries them.
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Offline AF6LJ

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 02:43:10 am »
Sounds like bad bearings to me.
Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 
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Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 01:10:20 am »
Help!   |O

I am extremely frustrated by how the industry operates.  :rant:  Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

SciCan, the manufacturer of this appliance, does not sell repair parts directly to end users. They will sell you the entire appliance through their small number of dental suppliers/distributors (K-Dental, Patterson and Sinclair). But if you ever want to repair it, you need to use those company's "technical/repair" departments, which they send out to your office and do the repair, so they can charge you labour and/or get you to sign up for service contracts.  :wtf:

Is this common practice? Seems in such a small and tightly controlled oligopoly, this is how it's done.

The only way I can get a part from SciCan is to buddy-buddy up with one of those 3 company's repair technicians (which fortunately I have) and have them purchase the part through their company as if they are doing a repair, ship it to me and let me install it myself and not charge me the labour.


So how can I source the OEM part?

I am certain that SciCan does not fabricate that dryer assembly. They may add the bracket, but the actual dryer motor/fan-blade and heating coil element seems to be an OEM part. The only problem is, it is completely unmarked and I have no idea what the specs are. I've looked around for it but can't find anything. Even if I did find it, I am not sure I could get it directly either... the OEM may not want to sell either to individuals.

 :box:

This just infuriates me! I like to repair my own equipment yet the manufacturer doesn't sell you the parts! They force you to go through a handful of their dealers/distributor companies which will only replace the part if they are the ones doing the actual repair-work themselves, greatly inflating the price of the repair. The only way around it is to befriend a tech who will buy it for you (until their company slaps them) or you try to find the OEM that originally made the part for the manufacturer in the first place (which may be impossible, or not even able to purchase from).

Argh!  :scared:

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Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2016, 08:19:36 pm »
OK, new dryer motor & heater unit delivered and swapped with old one. FIXED! Turns out it was the motor assembly. What could have gone wrong? Should I try to take it apart and is there anything that can be fixed here?



I've attached a photo of the only identifiable label, which is also wrapped under foil tape, but Google brings up nothing... ML2208G2.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 12:23:51 pm by edy »
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Offline inertg

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 05:44:54 am »
In my case, the dryer motor stopped working, 220V is found on the connectors from the relay when the component check, dryer motor + dryer heater are on.  Checking the connectors from the heater unit show open contact at both the heater and the motor.  Tracking down further, carbon brushes are worn down completely, which explains why the motor wires are open.  Because the blower no longer works, the thermal fuse blew, leading to open wires on the heater.
One would assume Home Depot would carry carbon brushes because they sell tools that use them, but no.  So I have to order online a pair of 5*6*15mm carbon brushes and a thermal fuse 170oC and have the mess laying around for about a month.
One would think that for such an expensive equipment, SciCan could have used a brushless fan, negating the need for the a graphite filter pouch around the motor and a longer lasting heater motor.  I am not sure how much power does the 24VDC from the SMPS would provide but if need be, another SMPS could be added to provide DC24V for a brushless fan. Looking at the way the whole thing is assembled, there was little provision to replace the carbon brushes compared to normal tools that use brushes.  Furthermore, the rate wear of carbon brushes is known, and they could have added in the maintenance manual that after a certain number of cycles, (5300 in our Hydrim Glass door) the brushes / or a new dryer unit should be ordered and replaced.
This is a typical example of obsolescence built-in.

Peeling motor
853938-0

Dust bag to retain graphite dust from the carbon brushes
853942-1

Parts are exposed, with dust bag inverted and washed
853946-2

How the Klixon thermal switch 026a5 is secured
853950-3

Close up of Klixon thermal switch 026a5
853954-4

Close up of carbon brushes
853958-5

Heater element
853966-6]

Thermal fuse close-up: 170C
853962-7
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 06:54:46 am by inertg »
 

Offline inertg

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 06:31:23 am »
Note that the motor has sleeve bushings instead of ball bearings, which is why it wore out and made a horrible noise for EDY.  A replacement blower motor can be bought on Ebay or on AliExpress easily since this motor is quite common.  Search for 240V Mini Vacuum Cleaner Motor (ML-G).  Now you know what ML2208G2 refers to.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-Manufacturer-100V-to-240V-Mini_60415898076.html.  How much did you pay for a new dryer unit, EDY???
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:59:58 am by inertg »
 

Offline inertg

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2019, 07:45:51 am »
Re.: Can anyone explain the 3-wire configuration? It looks to be 240V, the 3 wires handle both motor and heater. Thanks.
 

Offline inertg

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2019, 07:51:53 am »
Re.: How does the industry operate?
https://www.ada.org/en/publications/ada-news/2018-archive/september/dental-companies-reach-agreement-in-antitrust-suit
I would bet that they operate the same way in Canada, except there is nobody filing a complaint against them yet while Dental Colleges have no interest in it.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 07:56:09 am by inertg »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2019, 08:12:56 am »
Yes, cheap, as in here around $40 vacuum cleaner replacement motor, that they charge $200 for as a spare part. They are available as either ball bearing or sleeve bearing versions, though the ball bearing ones use cheap ball bearings, which are so poor in quality that they are the same short life as sleeve bearings. Not surprising, seeing as they are really designed to run for a total of 100 hours, or one hour a week for 2 years, which gets them well past warranty expiry, though I have abused those motors quite badly as vacuum pumps, which they do quite well, and there they do a thousand hours or so before failing, though the last hundred hours are really noisy.
 

Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2019, 04:00:15 pm »
Note that the motor has sleeve bushings instead of ball bearings, which is why it wore out and made a horrible noise for EDY.  A replacement blower motor can be bought on Ebay or on AliExpress easily since this motor is quite common.  Search for 240V Mini Vacuum Cleaner Motor (ML-G).  Now you know what ML2208G2 refers to.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-Manufacturer-100V-to-240V-Mini_60415898076.html.  How much did you pay for a new dryer unit, EDY???

I'm sure it was at least $200-300 with tax. Basically a drop-in replacement, so I unfastened the old one, put in the new one and connected the 3 electrical leads and done. At least I saved the labour but I know this was a complete rip off and I would never buy from them again. Remember they run a monopoly practically and these machines are operation critical in many cases. Canadian dental industry is a small market, we have an oligopoly of "distributors", namely KDental, Sinclair, Patterson and HenrySchein. However SciCan makes deals with one company to distribute so you can't buy from anyone else. A-DEC makes with another. Midmark with another. Hu-Friedy with another, and so on. Each gets exclusivity so they can screw over clients big time.

Now to be fair, because the market is so small we have no competition and these big 4 try to make as much profit off the backs of "rich dentists". What do you think happens? It gets passed on to patients. Thankfully now with Amazon and eBay and other options, dentists are finally able to get a bit of choice but the problem is because of health Canada regulations you need to be careful what can be used and what can't when it comes to the office. If you are ordering something that may directly impact or be used on a patient you are in a grey area and take a risk if something goes wrong.

Not much that can be done. I tend to order stuff from the USA but you can run into problems if it gets stopped at the border for being a "medical device". Most of the time nobody checks or cares, they don't ask if you are licensed, they will sell it to you. When it comes to replacement parts for machines you can find replacements but since these companies buy OEM and then scratch off all the numbers and/or get customized batches ordered for their equipment (like SciCan) you have a harder time finding drop-in easy replacements. So they get away with charging $200-300 for a $20 part. If you get the dental supplier monopolizing SciCan distribution then they tack on another $150-200 for their trouble.
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Offline edy

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Re: SciCan Hydrim L110w Dryer/Heater Assembly FAILURE
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2019, 05:00:53 pm »
To be fair, if you are a manufacturer of dental equipment or supplies, you are forced to make a "Deal with the Devil" (one of these 4 main distributors) if you want to bother with a small market like Canada. They provide logistics, sales reps, service people, marketing, client base, and some guarantee of sales volume. If a manufacturer had to go it independently, it would be expensive.... So these 4 (KDental, Sinclair, Henry Schein, Patterson) make a deal with a manufacturer, for exclusivity, and provide all the resources needed to market, sell, service and provide sundries.

Speaking of sundries, the Hydrim uses some proprietary "detergent" which costs more than GOLD per ounce and can only be purchased from SciCan and it's small number of distributors. The stuff is probably not that hard a formulation to make, but there is no generic option or alternative. It would be good to figure out what the heck is in their detergent and sell an alternative/generic. Again, a tiny market.... probably worth $1-2 million a year? Maybe more? Who knows... but it can't be that hard filling up plastic bags and boxes with a liquid that probably costs a fraction to make of what these guys sell it for. Then you have to pay a fortune to market it, get people to buy it, etc.... Not to mention it probably needs HEALTH CANADA approval so by the time you are done paying everybody off, it is not worth the risk!
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