Author Topic: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub  (Read 5566 times)

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Offline amyk

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2018, 11:39:49 am »
I am not interested to debate the human perceptible level of leakage current, neither.
Someone who deliberately ignores the facts is not worth arguing with.

Now would the OP please measure the leakage current and tell us...?
 
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Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2018, 09:19:23 pm »
OP has unsubscribed by now, scared of chaos caused by such an innocent question...
He's decided it was less painful getting zapped than trying to follow the answers to his post.
 

Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2018, 10:36:50 pm »
OP has unsubscribed by now, scared of chaos caused by such an innocent question...
He's decided it was less painful getting zapped than trying to follow the answers to his post.

 :-DD Sorry everyone, I worked 33 hours in the past 2 days and haven't had time to check in.. Looks like I sparked some interest with this post! I appreciate the replies and will get back soon with my results. Happy to open things up if anyone would like a better look. Cheers!
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2018, 11:17:06 pm »
Here we see the Armadillo c............

@Shock; That is the worse shameless rubbish I have seen to date, wrecking OP Posting with irrelevances.
I think you must be furious of being deprived the opportunity to self glorifies yourself with someone elses posting, yeah!.
if someone will to graffiti the silly picture with 2 soldering irons in the nose, you know that's an idiot rude lowdown!.. hahahahahaha LOL
I will take you on technically anytime..... other than that I won't be wasting anymore times on rubbish.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 11:21:24 pm by Armadillo »
 

Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2018, 05:34:54 am »
Some results..









I think it's safe to say this isn't *dangerous* but does it indicate a fault that would cause the sub to produce nearly no sound when turned all the way up?
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2018, 06:51:08 am »
That is definitely a dangerous faulty equipment @180mA leakage current. Not only painful shock, it could have been fatal if the shock persisted for over 1 sec.
You should send it back and demand for compensation on loss and expenses. But how do you exactly go about it, better seek some others views.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 07:53:25 am by Armadillo »
 

Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2018, 07:06:06 am »
Can you please confirm if I have my test equipment set properly? Supply to the device is DC, through a transformer. My results AC reading and testing to earth.
 

Offline Armadillo

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2018, 07:34:25 am »
Your test hookups are proper.
In my opinion, the metal case is supposed to be either doubly insulated Class II or connected to earth, otherwise it will fail the codes. It means you should not be measuring any voltage on the case. Stray Ghost voltage maybe.

There are few situation;

1. The DC power cord may be multi wires and one of them is earth wire which should be connected to the casing. The wire is broken. Or the earth is not true earth [earth broken somewhere else].
2. There is a short circuit in the internal circuit hence you have some problem with the amplifier. The shorts leak to case.
3. Cut exposed wire is touching the metal case.
4. [Append] Faulty power supply.

You should decide "finally" decide if your want to return it or troubleshoot yourself. If you do, I trust a lot of good members here could advise you how to resolve it and repair your amp.
The first thing is seek for any schematic of your amps, just to be sure.   ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 07:50:17 am by Armadillo »
 
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Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2018, 07:49:43 am »
Quote
That is definitely a dangerous faulty equipment @180mA leakage current. Not only painful shock, it could have been fatal if the shock persisted for over 1 sec. 

Got lost in a coma.... I read 180 micro amperes not mili amperes on that current measurement.



@zetsubou: Your measurements look good.
 
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Offline Armadillo

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2018, 07:52:45 am »
Quote
That is definitely a dangerous faulty equipment @180mA leakage current. Not only painful shock, it could have been fatal if the shock persisted for over 1 sec. 

Got lost in a coma.... I read 180 micro amperes not mili amperes on that current measurement.



@zetsubou: Your measurements look good.

Opps!. thanks for point out. Coma yes.
 

Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2018, 08:05:22 am »
Or the earth is not true earth [earth broken somewhere else].

I think this is the most likely issue as the fault shows on the speakers and sub even though they are powered independently..
 

Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2018, 09:34:04 am »
In my opinion you need to return it or at least get them to send out another SMPS, it's not really your job as a consumer to test it however.

Thanks Shock. Unfortunately the unit was purchased a little over 2 years ago. I was in contact with them immediately but ultimately let it go.
Since then, it's sat undisturbed until recently when I reorganised and discovered the issue. I'm afraid I 'own it' 100%  :(

You've given me an idea though - I'm going to test it on a new GPO. I know the wiring is good at least to the earth junction in the board.

Edit: Same result.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 09:53:10 am by zetsubou »
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #62 on: January 26, 2018, 10:21:23 am »
If you are not sure about the earth pin of your plug, you can poke one test lead to the chassis, and hold the other one with your hand.
This sounds stupid and crazy, but since you've been touching it from time to time, I wouldn't be too worry about it.
If you have a professional megaohm meter (aka insulation tester or Megger), you can test DC leakage at 1kV, should be in nA to tens of nA range. If so, you have nothing to worry about.
 

Online tooki

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2018, 10:59:42 am »
Read it, understand it, and if you are not satisfied, you can write to the board to query their intents.

Steady state 0.5mA may not feel a thing, but if you make contact at peak of AC, there will be a higher instantaneous current that gives you a zap, but if you hold it, you will not feel a thing until you let go of it and grab it again.

I consider the vibrating sensation normal as it happens at as low as a few tens of uA, and I'm totally fine with it.

You may have the rare anxiety disorder or maybe rare sensitivity ability?, but do check your doc.

It's not feeling current through my body. It doesn't feel a thing if I don't move my hand, but if I gently move my back of hands across such a surface, I can feel it's slightly vibrating.

Also, this only works on semi-insulation surface. A fully conductive surface won't work. You can try this on a powder coated microwave, find a dumpster unit with a lot of use (maybe smoke or something has seeped into it, increasing leakage by a bit), cut the ground wire, and measure leakage to ground. It should be in sub mA range, but if you put your back of hands on the powder coated case and swipe on it, you can feel something.

Another case you can try is to find a Macbook before USB-C, and power the charger from a non isolated 220V source without ground, and move the back of your hands on the anodized aluminum surface.
Yep, lots of people notice that on PowerBooks and MacBooks made from aluminum, or indeed even on plastic MacBooks when touching the screws. But indeed, only when using an ungrounded power cord or duck head. (Also, not only on 230V - I noticed it on 120V myself.)

Just as you said, some areas of the skin are much more sensitive, like the back of hands, or the top of your legs (how I first noticed it from screws on a plastic MacBook).
 

Online paulca

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #64 on: January 26, 2018, 08:27:34 pm »
Have you tried touching it with your tongue?

Might be just me, but I have a thing for testing voltages with my tongue.  I can give you a 1 significant figure estimate on a 9V batteries charge with my tongue.   Although this is mains voltage.... so I'd probably not try it.

It's mostly related to how long I feel comfortable with it on my tongue.  If I touch it and instantly recoil, with a lingering pain in the tongue, it's probably near fully charged.  If I can hold it for a second and it leaves a coppery taste but not real pain, it's on it's way out.  If I can hold it constantly, it's a goner.    If there are lots of expletives and spitting it was probably a 12V battery.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 08:32:24 pm by paulca »
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Offline zetsubou

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #65 on: January 27, 2018, 01:15:03 am »
Have you tried touching it with your tongue?

Hahaha I haven't tried this. If I leave it on my wrist for more than a few seconds, my finger tips start to twitch and start to curl up.
I'm going to move these out to the garage and get a new set.
 

Offline Bashstreet

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #66 on: January 27, 2018, 11:52:31 pm »
Have you tried touching it with your tongue?

Might be just me, but I have a thing for testing voltages with my tongue.  I can give you a 1 significant figure estimate on a 9V batteries charge with my tongue.   Although this is mains voltage.... so I'd probably not try it.

It's mostly related to how long I feel comfortable with it on my tongue.  If I touch it and instantly recoil, with a lingering pain in the tongue, it's probably near fully charged.  If I can hold it for a second and it leaves a coppery taste but not real pain, it's on it's way out.  If I can hold it constantly, it's a goner.    If there are lots of expletives and spitting it was probably a 12V battery.

Technically that is a fetish :-DD
 

Offline stevelup

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2018, 01:25:52 pm »
If I bought a metal cased device that didn't have an Earth I would point it out to trading standards.  As I understand it, it would not pass British safety standards for mains operated equipment.

Every single bit of kit in my AV rack is metal cased and not one of them is earthed (I'm in the UK too). The only requirement is that it needs to be double insulated.

Quote
if I got a mains zap off a metal cased product it would be returned to the vendor with a letter of complaint and a threat of containing trading standards

I think you've been very lucky to never feel this. Perhaps your skin is particularly high resistance... I've lost count of the number of times I've felt this when brushing against the ports on a laptop for example. Interestingly, never felt it on any Apple device.

Some satellite receivers are a nightmare for this with 80 odd volts DC on the LNB connections with reference to ground. It can be a really nasty surprise when you're up the top of a ladder and you touch the grounded dish with one hand and the F-connector with the other...
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2018, 02:33:24 pm »
Hahaha I haven't tried this. If I leave it on my wrist for more than a few seconds, my finger tips start to twitch and start to curl up.

You probably want to see a doctor. Since you've measured 180uA leakage, that amount of current should not cause muscle twitching. You must have a higher sensitivity to electricity, which means otherwise safe devices to other people may hurt you.
 

Offline Bashstreet

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Re: Getting zapped off 2.1 speakers and sub
« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2018, 05:22:36 pm »
Hahaha I haven't tried this. If I leave it on my wrist for more than a few seconds, my finger tips start to twitch and start to curl up.

You probably want to see a doctor. Since you've measured 180uA leakage, that amount of current should not cause muscle twitching. You must have a higher sensitivity to electricity, which means otherwise safe devices to other people may hurt you.

Ok please lets stop the bs and nonsense.

Although people perceive electrical current differently "symptoms" of current flowing through body (parts) have same physiological effects.

OP is not "different" or need doctor and my bet is there is higher current leak.

This topic has been full of nonsense stupid advise inaccuracies cock fighting trolling and all sorts.

 
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