Author Topic: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?  (Read 6838 times)

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Offline neslekkim

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Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« on: October 14, 2015, 10:56:30 am »
I have an Siwamat WXLM1451DN/16 washingmaschine that stops mid-cycle, if I stop the maschine, and start again, it most often completes the full cycle.

I have been googling around, but cannot find any schematics or info about this, I think, How hard could it be to fix this ;)

Anyone who knows if there is info out on the internet?
 

Offline Towger

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 12:08:11 pm »
Worn carbon brushes on the motor would be the main cause of stopping mid cycle.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 12:19:41 pm by Towger »
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 12:31:06 pm »
Worn carbon brushes on the motor would be the main cause of stopping mid cycle.

How?
the machine wash and comes to the spin cycle, and instead of spinning it stops.  (Always, have done this couple of months now)
When I turn the machine off, and then on, it completes everything.

I would think an sensor or actuator could be the problem, if it's the brushes, wouldn't it be problems the whole way?, atleast, the brushes should be an easy fix though.
The machine is 9 years old now, used once a week, so maybe brushes should be checked anyway.


I found some other tips earlier, if the machine would complete the cycle on cold wash, it could be the heating element, but the same things happens on cold was also.

One day the machine stopped everytime on the same point (There is an led showing where in the program it is, and instead of showing an steady light for the progrm, it blinks at the point where it stops), Anyway, after three retries, I observed that there was lot of water in the machine that haven't been pumped out, so I manualle selected pump, emptied the water, and started again, then it finished the cycle.

So wonder if there is something around there, sensor for knowing if the water is pumped out, or something that starts the pump..

If only the bathroom was bigger, I could have taken it apart a bit to check the obvious parts.

 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 01:10:12 pm »
Does it stop with water inside?

Check the pump and the pressure sensor that is used to measure the water height.


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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 03:04:52 pm »
Does it stop with water inside?

Check the pump and the pressure sensor that is used to measure the water height.

Aha!
The pump works, since I can manually select pump to remove the water.

but the pressure sensor, that can be something to check, I saw some videos about it, but didn't understand the meaning of it, will try to find some info on how to test it.

 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 03:59:51 pm »
You will find the pressure sensor lurking under the top. Round disc with wires coming out the top and a rubber hose from underneath. Disconnect power and gently remove the rubber hose, then blow through the hose to clear the blockage in it, either half way up or in the bottom section. Connect again and it should work well again. It gets a build up of sludge from the washing powder in it.

Take the machine afterwards, pour a gallon of white vinegar into the drum, with no clothing in it. Then select the hottest program and a full drum of water, and run through a cycle of the machine to clear all the sludge out of it.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 05:58:26 pm »
The pump works, since I can manually select pump to remove the water.

Yes, the pump can work (partly) but if it takes too long to empty that could be the problem, some machines check this.
Just open it and make sure there are no coins, buttons or hamsters in there  :P
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 09:02:44 pm »
The pump works, since I can manually select pump to remove the water.

Yes, the pump can work (partly) but if it takes too long to empty that could be the problem, some machines check this.
Just open it and make sure there are no coins, buttons or hamsters in there  :P

Yes, that part of the pump, in the front I have opened to check, but could of course check more of it.
I know there have been some items with the clothes a couple of times that should not be there.. like tissue paper ;), but newer found it in the pump, only on all of the clothes.

 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 09:03:53 pm »
You will find the pressure sensor lurking under the top. Round disc with wires coming out the top and a rubber hose from underneath. Disconnect power and gently remove the rubber hose, then blow through the hose to clear the blockage in it, either half way up or in the bottom section. Connect again and it should work well again. It gets a build up of sludge from the washing powder in it.

Take the machine afterwards, pour a gallon of white vinegar into the drum, with no clothing in it. Then select the hottest program and a full drum of water, and run through a cycle of the machine to clear all the sludge out of it.

Great tips!, will try this, just need an friend first to lift out the dryer, hope it's as easy as this.
 

Online Tomorokoshi

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 05:30:49 am »
I just replaced the brushed on an Asko washer. Been doing that about every 5 years.

The failure takes place over a couple months. It starts with the occasional failure, and then gets worse. Similar symptoms with stopping somewhere in the middle.

It seems that at higher speeds the brushes bounce on the commutator, which because the extension of the spring means there isn't as much force as there should be just when it needs it. This can make the motor do strange things.

A brush set is probably around $20.

http://www.nettoparts.dk/shop/motorkul-siemens-vaskemaskine-13522p.html

http://sparesonweb.co.uk/shop/carbon-brush-siemens-44680p.html

Interesting how both those web sites seem to use the same engine.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2015, 06:36:07 pm »
You will find the pressure sensor lurking under the top. Round disc with wires coming out the top and a rubber hose from underneath. Disconnect power and gently remove the rubber hose, then blow through the hose to clear the blockage in it, either half way up or in the bottom section. Connect again and it should work well again. It gets a build up of sludge from the washing powder in it.

Take the machine afterwards, pour a gallon of white vinegar into the drum, with no clothing in it. Then select the hottest program and a full drum of water, and run through a cycle of the machine to clear all the sludge out of it.

Finally I got some help, and got access to the machine.

opened the top, and took out the pressure sensor, it looks nice and clean, blowed into it and the switch inside clicked.
Also measured the connectors on it, it has four connections, and three of them seems to have an function, not sure what the fourth is.

On the picture, if the connections are 1, 2, 3 and 4, then when I blow, 1 and 2 are connected, and 2 and 3 are connected, cannot find any function with 4, if I suck, I cant find anything happening.

But I cannot find any information on how it should work, should it have function both ways?
The hose going up to the unit looks also whole and clean, doesnt look like any detergent coming up that way.




 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 06:42:42 pm »
opened the top, and took out the pressure sensor, it looks nice and clean, blowed into it and the switch inside clicked.
Also measured the connectors on it, it has four connections, and three of them seems to have an function, not sure what the fourth is.

On the picture, if the connections are 1, 2, 3 and 4, then when I blow, 1 and 2 are connected, and 2 and 3 are connected, cannot find any function with 4, if I suck, I cant find anything happening.


Sucking should not make anything happen, but there should be at least 2 stages when you blow into it, one for each water level.
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 06:53:07 pm »
oh.... should one need to blow hard?
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2015, 07:27:14 pm »
oh.... should one need to blow hard?

Oh dear... this thread is going weird  :P

The first point is a gentle breeze, the second one like when you start to blow a balloon - sort of...
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Offline Deathwish

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 07:28:21 pm »
opened the top, and took out the pressure sensor, it looks nice and clean, blowed into it and the switch inside clicked.
Also measured the connectors on it, it has four connections, and three of them seems to have an function, not sure what the fourth is.

On the picture, if the connections are 1, 2, 3 and 4, then when I blow, 1 and 2 are connected, and 2 and 3 are connected, cannot find any function with 4, if I suck, I cant find anything happening.


Sucking should not make anything happen, but there should be at least 2 stages when you blow into it, one for each water level.

I have had many machines where the pressure stat is the problem, as well as a build up of sludge and lime where the pipe from the drum connects to the stat, as PA0PBZ said if you blow into the stat you will hear it click as it ramps round and it will just release as you stop blowing, try blowing down the pipe into the drum too and see if there is any resistance, if so clean out the pipe connector to the drum where it enters the drum.
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2015, 07:37:01 pm »
I thought the two screws on the unit was to take it apart, to check if it was something in it..  I guess not..

I think maybe it was for adjusting it instead.. i *think* I screwed them back as they where, but probably not.. anyway, the machine is not washing full cycle, empty, but I wonder if it is too little water in it now, or not. hm..

I searched around, and an replacement cost €75 in Norway, but on ebay, It seems like they can be had for €8-€30, if I just can find the right one..

Or, how bad can it be that I "adjusted" it a bit? ;)

 

Offline Deathwish

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Electrons are typically male, always looking for any hole to get into.
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2015, 07:45:24 pm »
Or, how bad can it be that I "adjusted" it a bit? ;)

You will find out if you adjusted it to shut off just when the water is running out of the top of the machine....
Anyway, I did not look at the google link for adjusting yet, but you want 2 levels: 1 for ' normal'  wash and one higher for wool and stuff.
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2015, 07:48:57 pm »
Or, how bad can it be that I "adjusted" it a bit? ;)

You will find out if you adjusted it to shut off just when the water is running out of the top of the machine....
Anyway, I did not look at the google link for adjusting yet, but you want 2 levels: 1 for ' normal'  wash and one higher for wool and stuff.

crap, possibly a stupid idea to "adjust" I think ;)
I guess there is no easy way to adjust these correctly, since one need a given pressure at those two levels.

But since the machine now is doing the full cycle, it seems like this is the unit that gave some problems, so need to find another one to replace it then.

Btw, found an unused connector on the "computer" behind the frontpanel on the machine... very tempting to attach some wires there to see if I can get access to some serial interface or something.. hmmmm..

If only there existed some service docs for these things..



 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 11:35:12 am »
so, after calling siemens, they ALSO said that it had to be the brushes.. so, well, I bought new ones, and are now trying to change them.
I could reach the motor from the underside, the opening on the back is tiny, only to remove the belt, and unscrew the motor, but the motor seem to be stuck

Anyway, I took out one brush, and compared to the new one.. They must last longer than this?


Edit: And after changing the brushes, puting an new pressureswitch in, and the machine stops again at the same spot..
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 05:03:34 pm by neslekkim »
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 05:51:30 pm »
I have a feeling you may have more success finding a manual in German instead of English.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 06:25:58 pm »
I've found the white goods industry even worse than the Chinese T&M manufacturers and Apple at not releasing schematics/service information, even to proper third party service shops who are willing to pay. I would expect better from the likes of Siemens than, say, Beko, but I think they manufacture them all with deliberate engineered to fail parts that even if you do diagnose a replacement are priced outlandishly and close if not more than a brand new machine replacement.

The EU is doing all it can to impose carbon taxes, RoHS, etc. Both the USA and EU have forced the car manufacturers to release service information to third parties. They need to do the same with all large volume manufacturers of electronics goods. Bringing back a service industry is a bloody good way to stop the chuck it into landfill mentality our zero interest rate debt fueled economy encourages.  :rant:
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2015, 06:28:24 pm »
I have a feeling you may have more success finding a manual in German instead of English.

Yes, trying that also
The same machine seems to be sold as an Bosch also, with the same number wxlm1451dn16, same parts, I checked the lists.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2015, 08:32:02 pm »
I have a feeling you may have more success finding a manual in German instead of English.
Just go online and find a white goods repair forum. Lots of them with good information and detailed descriptions on how to take stuff apart. Besides that most machines aren't complex because they have to be assembled correctly by idiots.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: Service Manuals for Siemens washingmacines?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2015, 11:17:21 pm »
I have a feeling you may have more success finding a manual in German instead of English.
Just go online and find a white goods repair forum. Lots of them with good information and detailed descriptions on how to take stuff apart. Besides that most machines aren't complex because they have to be assembled correctly by idiots.
In the old days this was the case. When they switched from electro-mechanical timers to simple PLC based stuff it was the same. Now they have proprietary microcontroller code that will once registering a fault keep that fault condition on for example. Door lock failed to operate as intended? Replacement requires a factory re-program, etc. Of course this is probably justified by "Health & Safety", I mean a failed interlock is a major health hazard... But the reality is they just want to make sure that when the machine ever fails, then it FAILS. A new one needs to be purchased. Only if it is under the 12 month warranty does it make it cost effective for the manufacturer, and them alone, to flash the reset code after replacing a £2 part.
 


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