Siglent ssa3021x

[Eyecue]

Siglent gets 950 dollars for the rma. I have a near new one with no. Rx and no tg. Hw v. 3.  I have 10 mhz clock.  Where to start?

[Zenith]

It's hard to understand what this post is about, apart that it's something to do with a Siglent ssa3021x.

[Eyecue]

I posted that on my phone at 2 AM.  Needs work I guess.  I have the Siglent Spectrum analyzer listed.  It wont show any signal on the screen only noise floor.  The tracking generator shows no output on another spectrum analyzer.  I do show a 10 MHz reference signal on the output connection on the unit.  The  company wants 950 USD to repair it. Any ideas on what to look for?  The hardware version is listed at 3 and I have seen some radical design changes in these units.  Thanks

[tautech]

You really need brush up on making a decent post.
You say near new, within the 3 year warranty ?
What company is doing the repair ?

Is it a SSA3021X or SSA3021X Plus ?
What happened to it ?
Did you turn it on one day and it didn't work ?
Have you looked at a service manual ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/documents/?CateIdss=6

We are not mind readers, please give us enough to head you in the right direction.

[Zenith]

Thanks, that's a little more clear.

When did you acquire it?

Did you buy it new or second hand?

Has it ever worked?

If it worked, how did you notice it had stopped working? Was it OK one day and didn't work the next time you turned it on? Did it fail in the middle of using it?

Did anything happen which might have caused this? Has it been dropped? Have you used it to investigate things which could have damaged the TG output and the SA input, say valve circuitry? Did it come with the TG option enabled? Have you updated the firmware? Was a firmware update interrupted or did not complete? Have you installed a firmware hack?

Have you investigated the TG output with a scope? Have you tried with different, preferably known good, cables and adapters? The simple things can catch you out.

Have you tried updating it to the latest version of the firmware? You might also try updating to a different recent version.

Why isn't this being returned as a warranty repair? I haven't looked closely at the Siglent warranty T&C.

I'd expect the 10MHz output to be there as long as the oscillator circuit was powered properly.

It's a thing I'd be very reluctant to open up and attempt to repair, although I believe a few people on the forum have done hardware repairs.

[Eyecue]

I got this unit from a third party so I have no idea what happened to it.  The unit only has about 17 hours of use according to the service menu.  The reason I dont send it in  to Siglent is due to the cost.  They said they charge 950 USD to repair this item.  That is more than I paid for it. There is a noise floor but no signal from the input showing on the screen.  The tracking generator shows nothing on one of my other analyzers. My thoughts are that it was overdriven.  I just can not imagine over drive on the tracking generator.  Due to loss of both of these functions I am of the belief that it is a mixer that has failed but those are a long way from the front end.  If the mixer failed from over signal then I would expect to see the diodes, relays, attenuators toasted as well.  The unit shows no signs of physical damage.  I was just looking for other peoples opinions on it before I open it up and start probing.

[tautech]

I got this unit from a third party so I have no idea what happened to it.  The unit only has about 17 hours of use according to the service menu.  The reason I dont send it in  to Siglent is due to the cost.  They said they charge 950 USD to repair this item. 

Yes, they will replace the mainboard with a new and calibrated one so to be sure the instrument will meet advertised spec.

We could point you to threads where these have been repaired however as it seems you can't read and confirm the model you have we don't know which repair thread to find for you. 

So a Sys Info screenshot will help us positively identify the model and also see if the latest firmware is installed.

[Zenith]

Then you bought it for a low price, <950USD, and it might have been from the original owner, or it might have been a company dealing in insurance write-offs etc. It has very few running hours on it. You bought it blind or for spares/repairs. It's been in this state since you've had it.

The tracking generator shows nothing on one of my other analyzers. My thoughts are that it was overdriven.  I just can not imagine over drive on the tracking generator. 

The TG can be damaged by applying > 50V and almost all sig gens can be damaged by reverse power over a limit. The SA input can be damaged by > 50V DC or >30dB. Most of us who've spent money on these things, are very careful to see that doesn't happen.

This could have been owned by a complete idiot, who overloaded the inputs and outputs sufficient to cause limited damage. It could have been deliberately sabotaged, say by a disgruntled employee applying mains (line) voltage, and extensively damaged. It could just be this is a firmware update that failed, and it isn't much effort to reload the firmware. IMHO it would be unwise to overlook that possibility.

I guess that what Siglent would do is just replace all boards which seemed to be faulty, and set it up properly.

As tautech said, people would be in a better position to help with more complete information, such as from the Sys Info screen.

[Bicurico]

Best you can do is to sell it as is (broken) on eBay, before opening it up. If it has never been opened and the seals are intact, it will be worth more.

You hardly will be able to repair this device yourself, otherwise you would not be asking here for help.

[Zenith]

Best you can do is to sell it as is (broken) on eBay, before opening it up. If it has never been opened and the seals are intact, it will be worth more.

"Untested", which as we all know is ebay language for "Thoroughly tested in our well-equipped lab and found to be utterly incapable of being repaired".

You hardly will be able to repair this device yourself, otherwise you would not be asking here for help.

There are accounts of people on Youtube and on here, who've repaired damage to this SA involving changing fairly inexpensive components in the SA input. I wouldn't know whether this sort of work is beyond the OP. The TG is a separate unit and that is perhaps available from Siglent as a spare, or could be repaired.

However, your suggestion of getting rid of it on ebay - with an honest description of course, and seals unbroken - is worth considering.

[Eyecue]

What is the purpose of a forum like this if people cannot come here and ask questions?  It is very presumptuous of you to assume that I am not able to perform any repairs on this unit.  I am just asking for a starting point.  I would suspect if the front end was overdriven the diodes would be shot. The relays would be shot and they are quite a distance from the mixer. 

[Eyecue]

Topic says 3012X not 3012X Plus.
Service manual is mostly worthless for anything other than disassembly and recording specs.   

[Eyecue]

You are the only one on here that is attempting to offer any helpful advice.  I am taken aback by some of the posts on this subject.  What is the point of a forum like this if a person cannot come here and ask for help?  I dont have any output on the Siglent TG according to my HP SA.  Since I have no input reading and no output generator, I would suspect a mixer.  How would someone test the mixer?  I have upgraded the firmware and it did not help.  I posted the hardware version as being .3 .   Siglent just said that they would repair it for 950 dollars and it appears that from another post they are just going to swap boards.  It has a three year warranty but there is a clause about damage caused by user error and I would be at their mercy to say that it was or was not.  I am seeing a lot of people that are overloading the front end on spectrum analyzers trying to measure PWM on motor controllers.  So that maybe the case. If that was the case then why the TG quit is another matter unless it was such a bad overload that the power got all the way to the mixer.

[tautech]

Topic says 3012X not 3012X Plus.

Thanks for clearing this up as so many forget the Plus, which yours is not.

Let's start with some basic checks so we're all on the same page.
First look at System to see that Pwr On Preset is configured correctly and then apply Factory Reset and let the unit reboot.
First screenshot below is with Preset applied and menu open.
Second is with TG port connected directly to RF In and TG turned ON.

This unit is equivalent to a Plus model and menus may be slightly different to your unit.
Please post a screenshot of what you see with the above settings.....Preset/Factory Reset selected, Factory Reset then TG ON and connected to RF IN.

[Zenith]

You didn't get off to a flying start, then you were asked specific direct questions to which you didn't give direct answers. This I found somewhat frustrating. However, let us consign that to the past and move on.

I have had one of these for a couple of years. I've been careful not to overload the inputs and if it started behaving as yours does, it would be returned to Siglent's main agents in the UK with a warranty claim. I find it intriguing the initial purchaser didn't do that, especially with so few hours on it, unless they knew it had been wrecked by overloading the SA and TG output. Maybe something else happened such as it failed and the original owner died, or it belonged to a company which collapsed before a warranty claim could be made. If you were confident it was a rare mixer failure, not caused by severe overloading, then returning it to Siglent to deal with would be the right thing to do.

I suggest you do exactly what tautech suggests. You just might get it working without opening it up and anyway, we'll know where we are.

If that runs dry and you have to open it up, let's take it from there and I'll help as best I can.

I've done some limited SMD work, and I certainly wouldn't like to tackle a faulty SSA3021X. For all I know you may have a top end SMD rework station and be a dab hand.

[tautech]

You have to be damn negligent to blow one of these but it can happen if careless and it seems from the recent repair threads non contact EMI work can do it if you have the internal attenuation set too low.
Otherwise they have an audible and visual warning when you approach damage levels.
First one I had I quickly learnt to leave the cellphone in another room when working with low level signals.

[Eyecue]

Here are the shots that you asked for,  The TG is now acting differently.   Originally it would show a line at the 0 dBm level at the top of the screen and now it stair steps. 

[tautech]

Please confirm you have done a System Factory Reset ?
If so your screenshots should be in the ink saver white mode like those above.

[tautech]

The TSP teardown might be useful to help find any possible faulty areas and the RF reference stuff starts here and later progresses to the main RF PCB:
https://youtu.be/Fn7uaEVeOPk?t=570

[Eyecue]

Factory reset and delete user data completed. That was what the issue was!  I thank you sir for your knowledge.  Much obliged.

[tautech]

Factory reset and delete user data completed. That was what the issue was!  I thank you sir for your knowledge.  Much obliged.

Wow, I never imagined the TG could be so stuffed by some user setting. 
Ok so can you now confirm the TG default -20dB output sweeps near a -20dB level for a full sweep ?

I say near as without Normalisation the sweep won’t be flat and these older design X models use a process where you Normalise directly whereas X Plus you must first save the sweep as a Reference then Normalise it to a 0dB level that we can set that normalised Ref level anywhere on the vertical axis.

[tautech]

Eyecue
Can you do the test I asked to prove your SA/TG is working correctly please ?

Siglent have sent us an unreleased firmware for you that could help however we first need know if a TG sweep at default levels is correct.

[Eyecue]

This is power on,  TG to SA 

[tautech]

Great, that level seems okay but I no longer have my X model to check. Maybe another member can confirm default TG level is a little higher than -20dB.
Does it Normalise correctly to 0dB ?

[Eyecue]

When I normalize the signal it is a perfect flat line at 0 dBm