EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Electronics => Repair => Topic started by: DC1MC on November 27, 2017, 10:46:56 pm
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Hello everybody, I have this rather humble, but important issue for me: I'm repairing some radio equipment, including some variable air capacitors and for the life of me I'm not able to get a source of high quality small mechanical parts. I'm hindered by the fact that I either don't know the proper names for them, in English, German or in my native language, or I'm doing something very wrong.
What I'm unable to find for the life of me:
- Split washer-like push-on shaft retainer (not the star shaped ones, but the flat cut ring), especially M4 inner diameter. Yaesu uses such a thing to hold the perfectly smooth (no fastener groove) shaft of a very important air capacitor, and the original is gone :(.
- Any kind of thin (0.1 - 0.5 mm ) circular flat washers in M2-M5 to be used as friction helper.
- Hi quality M2-M5 screws, especiall non-magnetic (stainless steel) the fleabay offer is pathetic.
I had to send too many cool devices to an early demise due to lack small high quality mechanical parts, so if any of you could help with a source that ships to Germany I will be so grateful.
Many thanks for your help.
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Look for model engineering suppliers
http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/index2.htm (http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/index2.htm)
http://www.gwr-fasteners.co.uk/model-engineering-fittings-683-c.asp (http://www.gwr-fasteners.co.uk/model-engineering-fittings-683-c.asp)
https://www.ekpsupplies.com/ (https://www.ekpsupplies.com/)
Also watchmakers suppliers
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mcmaster-carr
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- Split washer-like push-on shaft retainer (not the star shaped ones, but the flat cut ring), especially M4 inner diameter. Yaesu uses such a thing to hold the perfectly smooth (no fastener groove) shaft of a very important air capacitor, and the original is gone :(.
Would that be a retaining ring? That might help your search. Sorry, I wouldn't know who would sell such parts in Germany, but they are not uncommon.
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Small Parts, Inc
But any decent hobby shop should have them... particularly those that specialize in RC planes and cars.
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I get my small stainless fasteners from Boltbase: http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Bolt-Base?_rdc=1 (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Bolt-Base?_rdc=1)
The 'split washers' you refer to may be circlips, starlock or perhaps E-clips? - try searching ebay using those terms and see if you can identify what you want.
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You can just search for the DIN norm for any kind of screw, washer or whatever.
http://www.inox-schrauben.de/epages/INOX.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/INOX/Categories/Scheiben__Federringe_EDELSTAHL/Unterlegscheiben/Scheiben_normal_DIN125 (http://www.inox-schrauben.de/epages/INOX.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/INOX/Categories/Scheiben__Federringe_EDELSTAHL/Unterlegscheiben/Scheiben_normal_DIN125)
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high quality small mechanical parts [...] Germany
https://de.misumi-ec.com/
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There is a suppler in the US. that has any type of hardware you may need,(not sure if they ship to your country)
https://www.mcmaster.com/# (https://www.mcmaster.com/#)
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I suggest to get a Bürklin print catalogue. They are well sorted and you will find the correct designations. Also, their assortment is very stable compared to other distributors.
Another invaluable source is to take stuff apart. Older copiers, printers and fax machines yield a lot of mechanical parts. Even the darn Fetap6xx-style telephones have their merits here. Answering machines, walkmen, CD-players. Whatever you can get. Limit time per unit to 15min. and do not procrastinate with sorting, and you will build a nice basic set of parts.
Also, local model shops.
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Also: http://www.microfasteners.com/ (http://www.microfasteners.com/)
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- The modeling supplies people are F...ING INSANE :scared:, I understand that keeping an inventory costs, but this inventory could snuggly fit in a shoe box and asking 0.15GPB for a part that costs a % of a cent is too much, I refuse to patronize these stores as a principle.
The cost of handling the part is way more than the parts cost for stuff like that. If you don't like it, go buy a box of 1000
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https://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=1agwj29 (https://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=1agwj29)
Find what you need here, I will purchase it and mail it to you.
pm me the part # and your mailing info.
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- The modeling supplies people are F...ING INSANE :scared:, I understand that keeping an inventory costs, but this inventory could snuggly fit in a shoe box and asking 0.15GPB for a part that costs a % of a cent is too much, I refuse to patronize these stores as a principle.
You refuse to pay people for the time required to sort your 12 screws, 4 washers, and 6 nuts of three different sizes neatly into labeled bags and ship them to you.
Okay.
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You refuse to pay people for the time required to sort your 12 screws, 4 washers, and 6 nuts of three different sizes neatly into labeled bags and ship them to you.
Okay.
Quite right. And also: Bürklin SELLS to private customers, there are Schiffer, Reichelt, and even Conrad (as long as you don't count the local walk-in shops, which are shitty). And, in Germany, even Element14 sells to private customers. Maybe you should read some posts from abroad about this and compare again!
The greater amount of surplus in the US is matched with a greater number of buyers too. A lot of Mil (or VG) grade stuff that was unavailable in old times, because Vebeg sold in bulk auctions only is now available on Ebay for reasonable prices. You should get aquainted with the shops of Z.Hoefler and Emsstrom! Also, shipping from UK is cheaper in the most cases than from Austria to D - and there is a lot to be had!
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I appreciate you're in Europe, but in case someone in New Zealand is wondering the same, Coastal Fasteners is pretty good:
https://www.coastalfasteners.co.nz/ (https://www.coastalfasteners.co.nz/)
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Er, what's wrong with eBay?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-A2-STAINLESS-STEEL-SOCKET-BUTTON-DOME-HEAD-ALLEN-SCREW-BOLTS/121440422568?hash=item1c4669caa8:m:mvjVjGvYlt4yXqsI2zS8sHg (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M3-M4-M5-M6-M8-A2-STAINLESS-STEEL-SOCKET-BUTTON-DOME-HEAD-ALLEN-SCREW-BOLTS/121440422568?hash=item1c4669caa8:m:mvjVjGvYlt4yXqsI2zS8sHg)
A2 stainless is 304 which is non-magnetic. If you really want serious stainless then go for A4.
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In the end, it seem that a simple 4mm shaft split retaining ring is not trendy anymore, it has been replaced by Circlips, Seegerrings and Starlocks, that are more suitable for automatic assembly, but my 4mm shaft is in a 6mm sleeve bearing and the retainer should not be larger than this, .............
Could you bush/shim the shaft so that the retainer, Starlock or whatever, is outside the bearing's 6mm size constraint ?
Maybe that will give you more fastener/retainer options ?
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Just a quick update, I've got some Circlips (or Seegerrings) form a vendor that takes into consideration both the handling issue and the actual cost of the parts, so for one piece the cost was 2.20, for 10 - 2.40 and for 20 - 2.80, IMHO this is how it should be done. The modeling supplies guys that I was complaining off were having the handling costs included fully EVERY TIME for EACH PART, so in the example from the friendly Monkeh, the whole thing would have reached something like 50GPB. But please Monkeh & Co, don't let this stop you climb on the high horse and then :horse:.
Now to come back to the issue at hand, the circlips could have the external "hooks" fine dremmeled to fit into the 6mm circumference, but sadly they have a BIG problem, because the shaft is smooth without groove and also has some kind of elastic pressure contact it gets pulled back even if I use two of them.
So I really need a retainer designed for a smooth shaft, and sadly, besides Starlocks that have almost 11mm diameter for 4mm shaft diameter I wasn't able to find a retainer split ring made for smooth shafts that I can buy.
Any help is now really appreciated as I kind of reached my search-fu limits and the flu and fever that tortures me in the last days didn't help either.
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Don't know if this helps, but 4mm is close to 5/32" or 0.15625" - maybe there a 5/32 star washer available to suit your requirements
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A long time ago, when I were a young lad, I learned a lot about electronics tearing stuff apart.
After tearing down a few TVs, cassette decks, VCRs, amps etc I had a box full of small nuts n bolts n fasteners.
Fast forward a few decades and the remnants of that are still useful.
Alas no more, just a few self-tappers and plastic all the way, booo :(
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Actually it does help a lot, searching for it brings the 97200A110 on https://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=1ahb1sl (https://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=1ahb1sl) that is pretty close of what I want, seeing that the old style split ring for grooveless shafts seem to be gone (curse you Yaesu for this choice of assembly, so much pain).
So, thanks a lot.
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I suggest to get a Bürklin print catalogue. They are well sorted and you will find the correct designations.
How? I can’t find any mention of a print catalog on their website, nor via a google search. :(
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I suggest to get a Bürklin print catalogue. They are well sorted and you will find the correct designations.
How? I can’t find any mention of a print catalog on their website, nor via a google search. :(
My last one is from 2010, I have to admit. Until then, you could order it for about 10.- or get it free with an order. Or pick it up in their store in Munich. Maybe they changed something. I'll ask.
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I suggest to get a Bürklin print catalogue. They are well sorted and you will find the correct designations.
How? I can’t find any mention of a print catalog on their website, nor via a google search. :(
My last one is from 2010, I have to admit. Until then, you could order it for about 10.- or get it free with an order. Or pick it up in their store in Munich. Maybe they changed something. I'll ask.
2010? Then I’m willing to wager they’ve followed in everyone’s footsteps and discontinued the paper catalog. :(
I am actually extremely surprised that Reichelt, for example, still has a print catalog. Digi-Key, Mouser, ELV, etc. don’t any more. Distrelec still does, but now reserves it only for B2B customers (though you can cheat and add it to your cart by finding its SKU even as a B2C customer). Farnell has a catalog, but not for every country, so I can’t get their English (UK or US) catalog because I’m in CH. |O
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Hey, I don't know. But after 8.1., I'll be contacting them anyway.
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Right, no more paper catalogue at Bürklin unfortunally. There was one available until 2016. But they are aware of the shortcomings of their web catalogue, as many customers have complained.
They will make available a PDF catalogue of a structure and layout close to the last paper catalogue.
This is expected to happen in the first quarte of the year.
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What a pity. I can't be the only person who finds a dead-tree catalog to be incredibly instructive. Browsing online catalogs sucks, especially since almost none concatenate the different variants of an item (e.g. values) into one line item, the way many paper catalogs did.
Thanks for checking, though!
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What a pity. I can't be the only person who finds a dead-tree catalog to be incredibly instructive. Browsing online catalogs sucks, especially since almost none concatenate the different variants of an item (e.g. values) into one line item, the way many paper catalogs did.
Thanks for checking, though!
Yes, but that is exactly what they say it will do (like their paper catalogue did)!
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What a pity. I can't be the only person who finds a dead-tree catalog to be incredibly instructive. Browsing online catalogs sucks, especially since almost none concatenate the different variants of an item (e.g. values) into one line item, the way many paper catalogs did.
Thanks for checking, though!
deadtree is great for anything mechanical like heatsinks, connectors, button etc. these day I often use googles image sarch
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... these day I often use googles image sarch
I have heard of image search but I have no idea how I would find the source of a small washer using an image search. Can you give me an example. Thanks
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What a pity. I can't be the only person who finds a dead-tree catalog to be incredibly instructive. Browsing online catalogs sucks, especially since almost none concatenate the different variants of an item (e.g. values) into one line item, the way many paper catalogs did.
Thanks for checking, though!
Yes, but that is exactly what they say it will do (like their paper catalogue did)!
I guess it helps, but browsing PDFs tends to suck, too... I far prefer browsing a dead-tree catalog.
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What a pity. I can't be the only person who finds a dead-tree catalog to be incredibly instructive. Browsing online catalogs sucks, especially since almost none concatenate the different variants of an item (e.g. values) into one line item, the way many paper catalogs did.
Thanks for checking, though!
Yes, but that is exactly what they say it will do (like their paper catalogue did)!
I guess it helps, but browsing PDFs tends to suck, too... I far prefer browsing a dead-tree catalog.
I understand completely. The 'wait - what's that - we could it do that way too' effect is severely lacking.
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... these day I often use googles image sarch
I have heard of image search but I have no idea how I would find the source of a small washer using an image search. Can you give me an example. Thanks
Maybe using something like 'precision washer' or 'retainer clip' and then looking at the images while watching your mouseover info, until you see something that's not alibabaschnullbull.
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Google image search for 'retaining ring'
https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1690&bih=943&ei=7ABbWs_XGYeYgAaq3KjwCQ&q=retaining+ring&oq=retaining+ring&gs_l=img.3..0l10.4777.10333.0.10703.14.10.0.4.4.0.67.524.10.10.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.14.557....0._YvgFiOWErQ (https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1690&bih=943&ei=7ABbWs_XGYeYgAaq3KjwCQ&q=retaining+ring&oq=retaining+ring&gs_l=img.3..0l10.4777.10333.0.10703.14.10.0.4.4.0.67.524.10.10.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.14.557....0._YvgFiOWErQ)
Lots of irrelevent stuff but maybe something useful as well.