SMIQ03B Errors after battery change

[Aleksandar]

Hi everyone,

Please advice. After replacing  RAM battery and entering the standard calibration procedure, I received an error report:
ERROR 180 CALIBRATE ALL failed; execution stopped;
ERROR 180 Calibration failed; Level Preset;
ERROR 183 Learning failed; ALC OFF MODE = TABLE;
Also, at the bottom I have the following messages for CALIB LEV PREST:
Error: IQCON no convergence
VIEW shows for all positions: +128.00
For CALIB -ALC TABLE- LEARN TABLE:
Error: CW: ALC_ON voltage oot;

The device was completely correct except for the indication that the RAM battery was empty.
Does anyone have any idea what I should look at first

Aleksandar

[perieanuo]

hi,
other people reported afted batt change and cal, is ok
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-project-rs-smiq03b/
so disconnect the new battery, wait for the memory to flush for some minutes, reconnect battery and recalibrate, maybe the RAM is not blank and gives you errors

[Aleksandar]

OK thank you.

I'll try that.

This is not the first time for me to replacement the battery. It was always all right after the calibration.
I have one more question. The user manual states that the battery life is 5 years.
For me, it takes several months. Original RENATA cr2477N.
When you measure the current on the jumper and standby mode, it is about 0.65 mA. And that's too much. where can it leak so much? Is the zener diode V9 / 5V.1 responsible for this? To conduct even though the voltage at the cathode is less than 5.1V, reverse leakage current?

[perieanuo]

you're right, current is way too high
you have some schematic? i don't suspect the zener, maybe some capacitor
edit: after downloading sm vol 1, 3 and 4 i still don't see the schematic includin ram + battery, only some reference in vol1 page 17, Vbat must be between 2.2 and 3.8V and page 27, test point 2300 V Ram battery >=2.1V....
without some partial schematic i can't figure suspects for current leak, if you got one share it please

[Aleksandar]

Yes , I attached.

[Aleksandar]

This is beter

[perieanuo]

i suspected C300 but you say it's when you put the jumper you got leakage, so cut in 2 removing R203 and measure again
maybe you got some leak coming from UBRESET line ...
btw i edited before my previous post

[eurgenca]

Hello.
Calibration is failed for this reason:
IQCON no convergence
Error: CW: ALC_ON voltage oot;
Check IQ converter module.
Regards, Sebastijan.

[Aleksandar]

Hi,
First answer for Perieanuo. I have some schematics I bought because I got a faulty SMIQ. Unfortunately, there are multiple versions of the same device. There is a C300 on the diagram, but it is not on the board.
The UBReset line goes in three places. One is a blank pin on the connector , and the other two can be seen on the  pictures in attachment. I don't think the current is going there. I will have to somehow measure where which current is going, but that is a big problem, because these components are under the plate.
I'm afraid they're not capacitors on RAM?

Question for Eurgenca?
Can you give me some more concrete advice on where to start with IQ module?

Thanks to both of you

[CrazyTiger]

Hi,
Looks like your IQ Converter is faulty maybe you have not run the internal adjustment prior, so the oot errors never showed all these while. However lets try this, a reset.

Hold to "preset"button and turn on the instrument. Release it after 10 second. When you release the button, you will hear the attenuator clicking and the SMIQ will boot, with all the error that pops when a data loss occur, I suggest you set your gpib address to any number except 28. The default is 28, so you can use this to check if the reset took place. This should clear up the RAM and back to factory setting. Then try running the internal adjustment again

[Aleksandar]

Thanks,

I'll try when I get back from work, tonight.

[perieanuo]

Hi,
First answer for Perieanuo. I have some schematics I bought because I got a faulty SMIQ. Unfortunately, there are multiple versions of the same device. There is a C300 on the diagram, but it is not on the board.
The UBReset line goes in three places. One is a blank pin on the connector , and the other two can be seen on the  pictures in attachment. I don't think the current is going there. I will have to somehow measure where which current is going, but that is a big problem, because these components are under the plate.
I'm afraid they're not capacitors on RAM?

Question for Eurgenca?
Can you give me some more concrete advice on where to start with IQ module?

Thanks to both of you

hi, I doubt V1 is shorted, maybe D15 leaks (I doubt this too)
but the current goes somewhere... eventually try to cut tracks to investigate, I don't think some reset will change battery current consumption

[Aleksandar]

Hi,
Of course, I also think that the reset will not change that, because the batteries run out quickly for several years, but the device worked completely correctly.
The reset suggestion refers to these ERROREs that appeared after replacing the battery, but which obviously already existed, but I did not use the device.
Search the leak current will be very hard work. Multilayer PCB will be  great help
One more note. In standby mode, the current is about 0.6 mA, but when the power is turned off, the current through the X 300 drops to zero or maybe a few /uA

[Aleksandar]

Good evening,

After "Hold to button and turn on the instrument", nothing happened.
Obviously I will have to dedicate myself to the IQ modulator. Point by point!

[Aleksandar]

This is how things stand when it comes to battery life.

I measured the voltage drop at R 203 (220Ohm) and it is exactly 280mV, which gives a current of 1.272mA. This current also passes through the jumper X 300, which shows that the current for UBRESET is negligible. For RAM HM 628512 to be in IDLE state, VCS(pin22) must be greater than Vbatt-0.2V Ubatt=3V-0.28V-0.3V(V14)=2.62V That's not the case, VCS is low.
Or this scheme I have does not match my version of SMIQ 03B. Although I visually checked the PCB, it seems to be right
Because I don't see how it can be achieved, when there is no + 5V over the mains supply?

[perieanuo]

can you post your pdf with schematics? I got different diagrams
seems you have one 5V rail missing

[Aleksandar]

All pages regarding battery power are attached

[perieanuo]

you marked missing +5v on D224 but CS RAm signal being 0, you have a pull-up R11, I guess something here is not right
the only explanation is D224 output is shorted to gnd, that can easily be verified with multimeter with power switch off
and missing +5V goes to other page
don't worry, nobody here tries to steals schematics from anyone, at least not me
if you want oppinions and have the whole schematic, i suggest attach all of it, splitted maybe, or we will ask page by page

[Aleksandar]

Hi,
I probably didn't know how to explain my interpretation of what I saw about battery power in the previous post.
So, in my opinion, the essence is that there is no CS voltage on the RAM memories.
Yes, it is true that CS is output from IC D 224 and there is a pull-up R 11 which has + 5V on the circuit, but it is a voltage that exists only when SG is switch on. So that part has no effect on battery life. The question is what does CS do on IC D 22?
D 22 exclusively selects RAM expansion. Why is CS introduced at the inpute to D 22? Why is the D 22 powered by a battery, if that IC is of no particular use in the standard SMIQ 03B variant? In my opinion, only if there is a pul-up resistor at the input of this IC, so it provides a high level, necessary for RAM to switch to 50 microWat mode?
Although there may be some other mechanism that I can not see?
Please PERIEANUO to contact me by e-mail

[perieanuo]

CS ic chip select (see HM628512 datasheet), so activating CS means memory bank 0 is selected for read or write operations
you marked D224 hasn't +5V on your photo posted before (Reply #14 Battery buckup.png)...so my conclusions were based on that
whole memory bank is battery-backuped maybe to kees some setings or parameters when you cut off the 220V supply, it's common practice for old equipment (manually-made NVRAM)
D22 just selects the needed RAM for operation, when the program (firmware) decide this, no need to ask why, it's buildt like this by the programmer.CS is D22 OUTPUT, no INPUT like you said (pind Ax-MEM are inputs for selection, CS-RAMX are outputs and pins 4, 5, 6 of D22 are just data enable, they decide when D22 selects the output decided by addresses AX-MEM).
I don't think D22 is backed-up by the battery, from you schematic pages I see D24 is backed-up see SMIQ_S1 5.pdf and SMIQ_S1 7.pdf.
D22 is powered by VCCD22 from your schematic
anyway, CS voltage may be a small pulse, you need a scope to see it, a multimeter won't be up to this task
I refer that we discuss here on this thresd, not directly by email, ori via pm's

[Aleksandar]

Hi,

Pin 4 to D22 is INPUT (ENABLE), see attached PDF, pages 4 and 5.
The battery power supply for D 22 can be seen on PDF SMIQ S1 5, positions 8C and 5F and that is battery power via P MOS FET V1, position 7C. Checked with a multimeter, it gives the battery voltage. I can't comment on the rest.