Soldering Iron Issues

[vidarr]

I'm not sure where to post this exactly, but I think here is OK. The tips of my soldering iron are experiencing rapid "decay". My latest tip lasted one week before it looked like someone cut into it 1mm with a hacksaw. I keep very good care of my tips. They are Always clean and tinned. I never leave them sitting on and not using for more than a couple minutes. These tips are very expensive where I am, so I take really good care always. I have two irons with two different kinds of tips that I use frequently. The tip that is on the iron (40W) where the tip slides into the barrel and a "cuff" slides down and screws onto the end of the barrel has no problems. The iron (60W) causing problems, the tip slides into the barrel and a set screw holds it in. This 60W iron has been through a couple "elements". I tried a 50W element too with the same problem happening.

My flux says it is ABNT-NBR-15345 and ASTM-B-813 conforming/compliant. I just read now my solder has lead - Pb. Looks like normal solder though.

What could be causing this, if not maintenance? Could this be some kind of chemical reaction? Or maybe an issue with my power supply? I know the mains power is all over the place. I can see it in the lights. We get brown outs here too (but not a lot). We get spikes and dips all the time. My important electronics I have surge protectors and some things I use "conditioners"(?) to smooth(?) out the power (I guess that's what it's called/described in English). 

Has anyone experienced this kind of problem?

Thanks.

[Edison]

a) defect of the tip material
b) failure of the soldering iron - on my Weller magnastat 80W there was a failure of the heater switching - overheated tip + mechanical abrasion + soldering chemistry = destruction of the tip

[wraper]

What is that soldering iron exactly? There were issues with some weller tips where outer iron layer was quickly penetrated by solder and underlying copper was quickly dissolved in solder.

[eKretz]

All kinds of possibilities here. First,  what brand of soldering iron? Factory tips or something off eBay from China? What are you using for flux? What temp is the iron set to? Is it even temperature controlled?

[Edison]

The tip that is on the iron (40W) where the tip slides into the barrel and a "cuff" slides down and screws onto the end of the barrel has no problems. The iron (60W) causing problems, the tip slides into the barrel and a set screw holds it in. This 60W iron has been through a couple "elements". I tried a 50W element too with the same problem happening.

Side arresting bolt - this is probably super quality 

[eKretz]

Yeah that sounds like one of the firestick models, with no temp control, just on full blast all the time.

[cdev]

I have one just like that that I sometimes use in the basement or garage when I need to solder something quickly. Do you have a file?

Try filing it into a (not too sharp) point (like the kind you might use with a short stubby pencil, anything sharper wont last) or wedge (might be better) to give it a usable tip and then see if it can be re-tinned. wet it with solder right away before it oxidizes.

Use lots of flux. You might even want to try the non-electronic kind of flux for this as it might allow you to successfully tin the thing while rosin might not work. You have to tin it quickly because as soon as it gets hot it starts to oxidize and gets harder to make the solder stick.

Get a different iron when you can, some kind of temperature control, at the least. Ive seen them for as little as $15. Also, a tip, once you have it tinned, when you are done soldering, put a big gob of solder on the tip before you turn it off, don't clean it off when you are done, leave it with a big blob of solder there.

Also, you should have both a wet sponge and a container with bronze solder cleaner pad so you can clean the gunk off without having to abrade it. It will last longer if you both keep it clean and coat it with solder when you're done for the day.

[floobydust]

My flux says it is ABNT-NBR-15345 and ASTM-B-813 conforming/compliant. 

Uh that's plumbing solder for copper pipes, so it probably has acid flux.

Be careful because anything you soldered with it will corrode and cause problems, if it is acid-core plumbing solder.
Check and see, this might be why your tips are having a short life.

[eKretz]

My flux says it is ABNT-NBR-15345 and ASTM-B-813 conforming/compliant. 

Uh that's plumbing solder for copper pipes, so it probably has acid flux.

Be careful because anything you soldered with it will corrode and cause problems, if it is acid-core plumbing solder.
Check and see, this might be why your tips are having a short life.

Good call,  just googled that myself.  It's definitely not what you want to be using for electronics work.

[vidarr]

Yeah, I think that solder might be it. I will have to find a new solder supply. Unfortunately, that is all they sell at the electronics store here.

[PKTKS]

My flux says it is ABNT-NBR-15345 and ASTM-B-813 conforming/compliant. 

Uh that's plumbing solder for copper pipes, so it probably has acid flux.

Be careful because anything you soldered with it will corrode and cause problems, if it is acid-core plumbing solder.
Check and see, this might be why your tips are having a short life.

EXACTLY. 

That is not the "FLUX" you want - that is another FLUX used in copper alloys

acid substance  which purpose is to eliminate the oxide surface formed or
embed on the target objects to solder


You have 2 very distinct ways:
- YOU ARE *NOT* required to have ESD e.g. pure electric components high thermal mass...
- YOU ARE **REQUIRED** to have ESD SAFE equipment

A)
First way you will have more cheap and easy irons - they are NOT GARBAGE.
Irons with no ESD protection are **NOT** suited to ESD sensitive components

They are used on HIGH THERMAL MASS parts which are very common
they also get easily corroded with high amounts of oxides deposits

Usually a 60W or just 40W device is fine - more than 150W sometimes

YOU **DONT** need RMA (ROSIN) FLUX
YOU DO NEED  "RA" (ROSIN) FLUX

Best case scenario you **WILL NEED** solder paste proper to remove surface oxides
http://www.soldabest.com.br/produtos_pasta_soldar.htm

This paste is  CORROSIVE VERY AGRESSIVE
BUT IS 100% SOLUBLE in IPA

Very easy to clean - perfect solder - 
REQUIRED TO BE REMOVED after each use...

B) ESD REQUIRED

You need a  proper ISOLATED ESD SAFE device
Most likely transformer isolated and TEMP controlled.
(aka  REWORWSTATION)

- YOU DO NEED a proper RMA (ROSIN) FLUX like KESTER LIQUID flux s

https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-682932535-fluxo-solda-951-no-clean-reflow-bga-xbox-ps3-wii-500-ml-_JM?quantity=1

https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-712961294-fluxo-kester-186-rma-lead-free-100-ml-_JM?quantity=1

- TACKY FLUX (requires proper cleaning..) like  AMTECH flux  s
https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-1141668576-kit-2-fluxo-de-solda-amtech-rma-223-10g-bga-smd-realengo-_JM


YOUR TIPS MUST BE CLEANED from ALL THESE FLUX(s) after use
** YOU NEVER USE a CORROSIVE FLUX ON THE TIP itself... ***

My tip of very good reliable material very good price NON ESD IRON
- these irons are remarkable strong and use proof material -

https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-729627028-ferro-de-soldar-hikari-profissional-plus-40-sc-40-_JM

PARTS are not expensive
https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-866140496-4-pontas-fenda-ferro-de-solda-hikari-plus-power-sc-40-34w-_JM


My tip of a ESD SAFE REWORKSTATION:  ** CHEAP but RELIABLE and affordable hobby gear **
https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-1159364605-estaco-de-solda-e-retrabalho-2-em-1-yaxun-878d110v-promo-_JM

cheap and affordable gear you will find here locally very easily

2 cents of opinion
** DONT PUT YOUR IRON MATERIAL INTO AGRESSIVE (corrosive) FLUXS **
the tips will not last 15 days...  you put that flux *ONLY* on the corroded joints...

Paul

[vidarr]

Thank you Paul. Thank you.

I am checking those links now. I am also going back to the centro today to check the store again. It is this S.O.S. place:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S.O.S+Eletr%C3%B4nica/@-12.9738711,-38.5106017,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1s47n7OF2Wy34AAAQJOLBkHQ!2e0!3e3!6s%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fproxy%2FgDOWp8lsSSNgSFHN34inaisczk-RxGQS-6Zhl8mHT_OHX2m9uMHTjQJUkv0al-dcj7HCDRJmEtLu2MVTcN6Y-Vy5D0Wwq2ZnVzgKWa9uTzKyJ9PsH-ZwZOuAfLffFCRUWkQYQKPMZiUk6WuCnAXMoNgygg%3Dw159-h120-k-no!7i2133!8i1600!4m5!3m4!1s0x71604e8a55b9e13:0x3730931ba1f475a6!8m2!3d-12.9738877!4d-38.510582

Some owner knew enough to make a decent store, but no one there knows anything. I am going to write down the products you mentioned.

[vidarr]

This is what they sell.

[PKTKS]

I have not tested this one myself ...

BUT THIS IS **NOT** the proper FLUX for regular use.

This  paste is:
- HIGHLY CORROSIVE
- HIGHLY CONDUCTIVE (just put a OHM meter in the paste you have a reading...)
- HIGHLY RESIDUAL prone

I have tested the other (BEST) SIMILAR - very similar.
THOSE PASTES ALSO CONTAINS AMONIA  - very TOXIC

I use these pastes **ONLY*
- very small amounts
- very SPOT based
- very fast - and clean ASAP
- HIGHLY CORRODED parts only.

In corroded parts they are magical - all the oxides vanish - perfect solder

YOU DON'T  USE THIS AS NORMAL FLUX - NEVER!
For regular use - normal  parts - non corroded shine and clean..

GO RMA FLUX - like those tips above -  KESTER or AMTECH

The KESTER 186 LIQUID FLUX is very affordable
like https://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-712961294-fluxo-kester-186-rma-lead-free-100-ml-_JM?quantity=4

AMTECH TACKY is required only in SMD and mostly BGA parts.
much more expensive - and time prone issues - require proper storage and use...

this (ORANGE COBIX/BEST) paste will CORRODE not only you iron (if not properly used)
but also you BOARD and components...

Nevertheless  when the parts are already corroded - the paste is magical
Nevertheless  THEY ARE SOLUBLE IN IPA...
Nevertheless  you will find this an invaluable helper sometimes...

Paul

[KL27x]

Plumber's flux is water soluble. So your PCB will probably last just fine if you scrub them in a toothbrush under hot tap water then dry with alcohol. But any steel or iron part is going to be contaminated and will rust until the contaminated surface is etched or ground away.

The cheap iron where you stick the tip in and tighten the screw, those things are generally not even iron plated. They have just a thin plating of nickel (electroless nickel plating) that is a few microns thick. Well, maybe as thin as a few in the low spots; maybe as thick as 10 or 20 microns. Even if you use electrical flux, the plating will wear through on these tips within minutes or hours of use, simply by abrasion where it rubs against the things you are soldering. In a high quality iron, there is the same electroless nickel layer, but then a hard iron plating up to maybe 100 times thicker is put on over that. There's also a chrome layer, several times as thick as the nickel layer, applied to parts of the tip to prevent solder from sticking there. Even this relatively thicker and much harder chrome layer wears through on some of my iron tips simply through abrasion. (My CF tips lose the chrome where the tip slides against IC pins after a few months of heavy use).

The most practical thing to do with these cheapo tips, once the plating wears thru, is to sand/file a big old flat spot on the side, at an angle, and keep a big blob of solder covering that spot at all times. It'll work kinda like a bevel tip. You'll still have to resurface it very frequently, but it will get the job done if you need the extra power of this iron. And if you use electrical flux, the nickel plating will hold up for awhile on the shaft of the tips, at least. The tip will wear away from the tip back, more or less. Then you replace it when it gets too short.

[PKTKS]

Plumber's flux is water soluble.

That specific COBIX/BEST and some others that are very common here...

Are indeed IPA souluble.
They are not 'the' regular plumber paste
They are formulated differently and stated as IPA soluble

They are actually used (don't ask me why) very frequently by
entry level techs to achieve better soldering results.

Several think they can use that instead of normal RMA flux
for TIN/LEAD alloys

I have tested at least 3 formulas and can assure that
- THEY REALLY DO MAGIC RESULTS IN CORRODED PARTS
- THEY ARE REALLY CRAPPY to use (toxic, residual, corrosive..)
- THEY ARE IPA SOLUBLE - you can clean all the mess easily

Worth the hassle?  YES - IF AND ONLY IF you have corrosion
Results are really worthy - all the hassle is minimized

being there and checked myself
Paul

[vidarr]

Thank you Paul and  KL27x.

[vidarr]

So, to clarify... I want to use this Fluxo Kester 186 Rma Lead Free 100 Ml as my everyday flux? And the Cobix for if I have corroded parts.

[PKTKS]

So, to clarify... I want to use this Fluxo Kester 186 Rma Lead Free 100 Ml as my everyday flux? And the Cobix for if I have corroded parts.

Yes.. I have posted 2 different  very distinct  situations but actually nowadays we have 3 or more ..

A) you have ELECTRIC (not electronic) joints mostly w/corrosion and HIGH THERMAL MASS
B) you have ELECTRONIC (THT or SMD) joints  (may be or may be not ESD)
C) you have ESD  sensitive devices
D) you have not only ESD but also a very peculiar THERMAL PROFILE (LEADED or LEAD-FREE)

In each case you have options to consider:

A)  a regular CHEAP (mains plug) SOLDER IRON at least 60W or may be required 150W
     with  a good RA FLUX *AND* that crappy solder paste will help a lot

B) for NON ESD devices a CHEAP 30/40W SOLDER IRON is ENOUGH
    there is no fun to take that 2KG BRICK transformer to solder a 12AWG wire in the CAR/BIKE/HOUSE
   but you may choose - THT and SMD devices require "RMA"  flux
   I hate LEAD FREE STUFF - is pasty, it cracks it sucks.
   I use LEADED for THT SMD with RMA flux (i don't care much about) the KESTER 186 is affordable
   The AMTECH is more expensive

C) for ESD **YOU MUST** use an ISOLATED IRON and a AIR GUN will help to PRE-HEAT the PCB
    for ESD  **YOU MUST NOT**  use that CRAPPY paste...
    the  temperature MUST BE OK as well
    ESD SMD  also requires a proper TEMP PROFILE in which the TACKY FLUX will help
     I HAVE AMTECH NC-559 (expensive) for that
     This particular formula works very nicely for hand soldering SMD it gives you enough time

D) ESD BGA and REFLOW.
    I USE  ReworkStation and PRE-HEAT with AMTECH NC-559   TACKY FLUX ONLY
    ULTRA SONIC cleaner  ONLY  as well


FOR CHASSI  AND anything  WIRE GAUGE >18AWG (read bigger)  i have a 150W power device

That  CRAPPY PASTE is magic in that cases...

There are other options... and choices
Paul

[vidarr]

I am mostly in the A & B category you have there. The most "important" thing I solder are the ESP32 boards and everything related to this (SIM boards, sensors, cameras, radar, etc). My soldering iron problem started to get really bad when I started soldering larger parts like MOSFTETs, switches and other larger through hole components. I started that AC Dimmer circuit project you helped me and that is when the soldering iron completely corroded through. This second tip is halfway corroded now (in one week). I knew this couldn't be right.

These things you suggested I will have to order online. I am going to try the centro one more time and see, but I have not been lucky finding the right products.

You can see in the pics the difference this solder/flux is making. One side of the board is using products I bought in the USA from an electronics store. The other side is with stuff I bought in Salvador from S.O.S. You can see the really grey corrosive look on the solder joints already. Everywhere that Cobix touched is corroding. I even washed it carefully with water on towel. I had to stop this project (and all my other ESP32 projects) because it was getting ruined.

I will have to go back and repair a lot of this work.

Thank you very much Paul. This has been invaluable learning. This should help a lot of other people searching online too.

[floobydust]

What do you use to clean your tip?

I find brass wool (i.e. Hakko) is hard on tip plating. I don't like it, techs at work throw that in the garbage and insist on using a damp sponge. Not flooded with water and don't make a steam bath. Just a quick wipe. Even cotton cloth works too.

Otherwise, you might have some cheap chinese tips that are not lasting.

[Ian.M]

If you cant get electronic grade flux locally, even natural pine rosin dissolved in 95% purity alcohol is better than that plumbers flux.  You want hard pale yellow rosin, not dark brown or sticky stuff.  That makes a classic Rosin (R) liquid flux without any activators that can corrode your board.   Pads and leads must be bright before soldering, but if used sparingly and not 'cooked to death' the residue can be left as 'no clean'.

[cdev]

Ive wanted to try that for the longest time. Where does one get a good example of it? (Wondering if its possible to find it in pine woods, for example)

If you cant get electronic grade flux locally, even natural pine rosin dissolved in 95% purity alcohol is better than that plumbers flux.  You want hard pale yellow rosin, not dark brown or sticky stuff.  That makes a classic Rosin (R) liquid flux without any activators that can corrode your board.   Pads and leads must be bright before soldering, but if used sparingly and not 'cooked to death' the residue can be left as 'no clean'.

[Armadillo]

This may not sound good but I am just sharing my experience..... save your time, that mix don't work. It may caused small explosion "Pub" and even fly your smd component you want to solder.

That stuff is sticky and does not help the flow of the solder in anyway.

I could become the bad one here.... but go ahead and try it if you want and just ignore my message. thanks.

If you cant get electronic grade flux locally, even natural pine rosin dissolved in 95% purity alcohol is better than that plumbers flux.  You want hard pale yellow rosin, not dark brown or sticky stuff.  That makes a classic Rosin (R) liquid flux without any activators that can corrode your board.   Pads and leads must be bright before soldering, but if used sparingly and not 'cooked to death' the residue can be left as 'no clean'.

[janoc]

Ive wanted to try that for the longest time. Where does one get a good example of it? (Wondering if its possible to find it in pine woods, for example)

I think violinists use it for their bows. Look in music supply stores.

You can get a block of the rosin you can break and then dissolve. Or just use it as-is if you are soldering wires and similar that you can actually bring to the rosin block. Just be careful if you get a block of rosin like this because they are very fragile and shatter easily - and the mess afterwards is not fun to clean up.

[cdev]

Pine 'rosin' (also called colophony) actually has a lot of interesting compounds in it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin

The reason it makes a good flux seems to be related to its antioxidant activity:

"In industry, rosin is a flux used in soldering. The lead-tin solder commonly used in electronics has 1 to 2% rosin by weight as a flux core, helping the molten metal flow and making a better connection by reducing the refractory solid oxide layer formed at the surface back to metal. It is frequently seen as a burnt or clear residue around new soldering."

Looks like the pine resin one sometimes finds coming out of pine trees may work!

https://hackaday.com/2012/09/19/diy-flux-comes-straight-from-the-tree/

[Ian.M]

If you are starting with natural pine resin straight from the tree, and you want the result to be 'no clean' you need to melt the resin in  shallow tray and keep it molten long enough to drive off the turpentine, so the rosin sets hard and brittle.   Cook it too much and it darkens, degrades and can become somewhat tar like.  Cook it too little and flux residue that hasn't been heated to soldering temperature wont fully harden and may be somewhat conductive due to residual sap.  Turpentine vapours are absolutely foul and highly flammable, so if you do go down the 'woodslot flux' road, you need to prepare it outside.

Musican's rosin is generally over-priced.  Anywhere with shops selling specialist musicians supplies is likely to be developed enough that you can mail order commercial flux, or if you must exeriment with DIY, buy a good grade of lump rosin from EBAY.

In less developed countries, its worth looking on spice stalls in large street markets, a it has a number of traditional uses in many cultures including use as a component of incense.  However verifying that is is rosin and not some sort of maybe water soluble vegetable gum is difficult if you aren't fluent in the local language.

If its popping and spitting on your circuit board when you try to solder, the alcohol was probably contaminated with excessive water and you didn''t let the mixed flux stand to stratify after the rosin was fully dissolved, so you could decant the good clear liquid flux off the top.   If you start with high quality pale brittle hard rosin and 95% alcohol, you can get away without letting it settle and decanting.

[Edison]

Rosin dissolved in alcohol  - They can also be used for tinning PCB grooves - painting PCB - finally washed with alcohol - continuously bonded, can trap dust. Due to the dampness of the dust, transient resistances on the board may occur.

[KL27x]

The reason it makes a good flux seems to be related to its antioxidant activity:

"In industry, rosin is a flux used in soldering. The lead-tin solder commonly used in electronics has 1 to 2% rosin by weight as a flux core, helping the molten metal flow and making a better connection by reducing the refractory solid oxide layer formed at the surface back to metal. It is frequently seen as a burnt or clear residue around new soldering."

This sounds a lot like marketing wank. Most of the oxides are going to be dissolved by acid. When it's heated up or dissolved in solution, rosin is acidic enough to dissolve the copper oxides into copper salts. Then there are carbon compounds in there that will preferentially oxidize as you heat the joint, so that new copper oxides don't form very much.

You read the same thing on the back of a bottle of car polish. Antioxidants, restoring the paint, blah bleh. Polish long enough and you'll go through the paint... because you can put all the antioxidants you want in there, but the polish works because of the abrasives!

Better half decided we had to have our marble floors "restored." She explained how this company had a process to rebuild the surface of the marble. Yeah, sure. Guy shows up and I ask him what abrasive they use, silicon carbide or diamond. He says diamond.

[cdev]

'Spices' prevented food spoilage, before we had refrigeration, reduced all sorts of different kinds of inflammation, killed bacteria, often saving peoples lives, and they also helped mankind join metals together, leading to the beginnings of the mechanical world we know today.

Here are two plant resins used in incense along with their Latin names. I don't know of any metallurgical uses for them personally. (They both have been used medically for a very long time).

But its kind of interesting that the practice of 'alchemy' (The quest to figure out how to 'transmute' 'base elements' into precious metals)
was I am pretty sure the beginning of modern chemistry, strange as that might sound today.

Frankincense = Boswellia resin

Myrrh = Commiphora molmol extract