Author Topic: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)  (Read 3877 times)

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Offline Koray

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2025, 06:49:08 am »
Circuit board on the lid needs to be removed first otherwise the flex will be torn off with uncontrolled pull. After the removal of springs the lid can be pulled off it seems.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2025, 01:00:24 pm »
Circuit board on the lid needs to be removed first otherwise the flex will be torn off with uncontrolled pull. After the removal of springs the lid can be pulled off it seems.

In the video you linked it shows a model where you can access the main board side flex connector from the outside, there's no need to remove the circuit board on the lid. The springs have no part in the retention of the lid and whether you remove them or not makes no difference to the issue with the hinge.
 

Offline Koray

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2025, 02:35:21 pm »
OK, how about this one:



 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2025, 05:01:32 pm »
OK, how about this one:



Does not show removal of the lid either.
 
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Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2025, 05:50:15 pm »
I'd love to just avoid this entire pointless lid removal procedure if possible. I thought there must be some kind of tool for this. These exist:



But at least from what I can find they are PH1 smallest, which seems pretty chunky.

Even if they were a PH00 version, not sure you could even wedge it in there:



They really took pride in designing this in the dumbest, most pointless way possible.

 |O |O |O

I'd also like to add there's zero flex in the lid to spread the hinge apart, even with the top display, buttons and cover removed. The rigidity comes from the rim, not anything in the center.
 

Offline thephil

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2025, 05:58:39 pm »
I'd love to just avoid this entire pointless lid removal procedure if possible. I thought there must be some kind of tool for this. These exist:

...

But at least from what I can find they are PH1 smallest, which seems pretty chunky.

Even if they were a PH00 version, not sure you could even wedge it in there:
You could make a custom tool: Heat the tip of a cheap Ph00 driver with a torch until red hot, bend it and quench in a little oil.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 06:25:44 pm by thephil »
It's never too late for a happy childhood!
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2025, 07:56:13 pm »
You could make a custom tool: Heat the tip of a cheap Ph00 driver with a torch until red hot, bend it and quench in a little oil.

Love that idea, but I have zero experience or equipment in metal working :/ I'd probably just melt the screwdriver with a blowtorch and set my house on fire :(

The recessed holes in the baseplate are PH0. They are perfectly accessible with that kind of chunky driver. The back right one can almost be removed with the 2.5cm bit that I've shown in the picture with the plyer, but the left one is totally inaccessible. The first angled tool I've shown is 1.4mm deep but PH1. There's another kind of angled driver that's available in PH0, but those are all 2cm deep :/ If there was a PH00 driver that's maybe 1cm deep this should be very doable, but I can only find those two types of angled drivers everywhere I looked.



« Last Edit: January 21, 2025, 07:59:18 pm by Rooster Cogburn »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2025, 08:47:52 pm »
I understand that you need to have the lid half-open to get the hinge off, that's what I tried. When it's closed you have no access to the hinge. Here are some more pictures, hope those are helpful.

https://ibb.co/album/Xj1nt4
The first one is a start. (I don't need any of the inside, we have plenty of those.) I suspect that with the lid closed or mostly closed, you can slip a thin screwdriver into that gap (visible in the first picture) and push the hinge arms sideways to clear the pin. Shine a flashlight into the gap; I bet you'll see something.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2025, 08:48:46 pm »
OK, how about this one:


You really don't understand the problem, do you?? Three videos you've posted so far, all of which fail to show the thing that is needed.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2025, 09:18:45 pm »
The first one is a start. (I don't need any of the inside, we have plenty of those.) I suspect that with the lid closed or mostly closed, you can slip a thin screwdriver into that gap (visible in the first picture) and push the hinge arms sideways to clear the pin. Shine a flashlight into the gap; I bet you'll see something.

Ah, Ok, so you really meant the backside, outside, closed, apologies! I investigated that pretty early on (with a flashlight!) and I don't see how. If you open the lid even a bit it pokes down and completely obstructs the gap, so closed it is. I don't see how you could get any tool in there without completely destroying the bottom case rim, at least. Even just poking in for the pictures put marks on the thin plastic. It's a small screw driver and I couldn't even turn it upright to slip between the hinge parts. Flex cable is also right there, easy to damage.





I would love to avoid separating the hinge. From a repair perspective there is no reason to ever do this. The only procedure I can think of would be swapping the lid for a cosmetically better one from a donor unit, but in that case just swap the lid and the plate together. It's such a ridiculous design for a PCDP and I can't even think of how painful it would be to re-attach the lid, let alone doing this repeatedly during troubleshooting or when problems emerge after re-assembly. It's just asinine. I guess I'm just not getting whatever the magic trick here is, but I can't get anywhere with plastic tools even with metal tools all I'm doing is destroying the player further. This is why I'm hope there is some kind of tool to defeat this design and just remove the screws while keeping the lid attached like on 99% of Sony players.
 

Offline Koray

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2025, 09:54:19 pm »
They all show what the hinge fingers of the lid looks like. In the last video there is a verbal description of how the lid was removed. I really don't get it. The OP has no intention to take risks on a $5 broken device and just complains. I am done with this thread.

Yank the lid off already for God's sake!

K.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2025, 12:56:45 am »
I am done with this thread.

Thank you.

You advice was to just 'jank it off' and a bunch of videos that showed nothing. The only one even addressing the issue simply said to wedge a flathead in there. I did that and the result was nothing but marred plastic, see pictures. I don't think removing the lid is a good idea because it has such a high chance of damage even it it works at all and will surely cause failure on repeat openings. It's not uncommon it my experience to have to reseat a flex cable or to have issues again 1-2 days later with a player. Removing the screws without removing the lid really seems like the only sensible thing, I just need to find or build a suitable tool for the most recessed screws so I can service this type of player in the future.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2025, 02:52:33 am »
There is this Facom PH0/PH1 angle screw driver with a depth of 18mm. Pretty sure 15mm depth would get the job done, this might be close. It seems like a bit chunky (>3mm? No spec!) for a PH0 driver, though, which might cause issues. Come on, all I need is like a <=3mm PH0 <=15mm depth angled screw driver and I can just open these players without any risk of damage and dealing with this hinge design :)

 

Offline drhex

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2025, 07:20:57 am »
Not sure why you‘re hostile towards someone trying to help.
Anyway, take a Ph00 bit and cut it in half so you can just grab it with pliers and take the screws out.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2025, 12:47:24 pm »
Not sure why you‘re hostile towards someone trying to help.

I don't think it's me who's hostile here... That guy had a meltdown because I didn't follow his advice to 'jank it off'...

Anyway, take a Ph00 bit and cut it in half so you can just grab it with pliers and take the screws out.

I was thinking the same, I noticed you can get bits with longer shafts that would be easier to cut off.
 

Offline BILLPOD

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2025, 08:03:13 pm »
Good Morning Rooster Cogburn, If'n it was mine, I would drill holes in the top....
directly above the countersunk screws.    :popcorn:
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2025, 11:11:05 pm »
I ordered some small bits I can cut off to size and will visit the local hardware store to acquire a metal saw and file :) I'm pretty confident this will get that one last screw out and then I can service these players without issues. Maybe I'll CA glue the chopped off bit to a little wrench, we'll see.

To be clear, there are just a small handful of discman (discmen?) that are designed this way, the vast majority have no screws around the hinge, have them angled to towards the opening or have a different hinge mechanism you can easily take apart without any force.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2025, 04:50:57 am »
Remember that the plastic did flex enough when it was assembled. The two halves weren't injection-molded together. In the two videos that have been posted showing disassembly, they both talk about prying it off. I suspect you just need a prying tool that's wide enough to spread the force over enough area to not gouge into the plastic but bend it instead.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2025, 08:01:45 am »
Remember that the plastic did flex enough when it was assembled. The two halves weren't injection-molded together. In the two videos that have been posted showing disassembly, they both talk about prying it off. I suspect you just need a prying tool that's wide enough to spread the force over enough area to not gouge into the plastic but bend it instead.
Exactly!

For all we know, Sony made a special tool for spreading the hinge arms, possibly with some service bulletin covering many models, which could explain why the service manuals are silent on this step.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2025, 08:11:40 am »
The first one is a start. (I don't need any of the inside, we have plenty of those.) I suspect that with the lid closed or mostly closed, you can slip a thin screwdriver into that gap (visible in the first picture) and push the hinge arms sideways to clear the pin. Shine a flashlight into the gap; I bet you'll see something.

Ah, Ok, so you really meant the backside, outside, closed, apologies!
First off, thank you for posting the images.

Well, yes. I thought my initial request (“Can you share some pictures of the outside of the hinge, in both open and closed positions?”) made this perfectly clear. Your initial reply to that request was basically to refuse because you can’t see anything from the outside, which the photos ultimately show is not the case.


I investigated that pretty early on (with a flashlight!) and I don't see how. If you open the lid even a bit it pokes down and completely obstructs the gap, so closed it is. I don't see how you could get any tool in there without completely destroying the bottom case rim, at least. Even just poking in for the pictures put marks on the thin plastic. It's a small screw driver and I couldn't even turn it upright to slip between the hinge parts. Flex cable is also right there, easy to damage.
For sure they didn’t make servicing easy! (Then again, Sony portable electronics are extremely reliable — we are looking at stuff that has survived far, far, far longer than their design lifespans.)

Anyhow, I suspect one has to come in at an angle from above so as to not damage the back rim, and probably go in with two tools (or one spreader tool of some sort) and spread the arms.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2025, 05:48:03 pm »
From what I understand this player (D-FJ401), the D-EJ361 and the D-EJ751 are the only ones that have this unique issue. At least those are the three I own so far and I haven't seen any other models with this design. Every other player has clips at the back instead of screws, moves the screws a little forwards, has a lid that opens 90 degrees, has the screws angled towards the opening or uses a hinge design that can be disassembled without force. So if you're looking for a discman repair project and don't won't to deal with this, just avoid these three :) They're not particularly unique or high-end models, so you're not missing out on that much.

I generally have a rather high opinion on Sony gear when it comes to reliability, good design and helpful service manuals, so this was a surprise to me! A rare miss, I'd say.

I ordered the smallest angled screw drivers I can get and some bits to cut too size, we'll see if that solves the issue or if I have to get more creative, but I'm pretty set on solving this by removing the screws, so I'll find a way to make an appropriate tool once I get the supplies.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2025, 01:15:12 pm »
I'm afraid I couldn't make any progress on this issue.

I received the Facom screwdriver:



The manufacturer lied about the dimensions, it's not 18mm high, useless, returned.

I received the angled driver from AliExpress:



The manufacturer lied about this being a PH0, it does not fit into PH0 screws like my actual PH0 bits. I tried unsuccessfully to slim the tip/wings etc. with a metal file, I just can't get it to fit properly. Not a metal worker.

If anybody can recommend a low-profile angled PH0 or smaller angled screwdriver, that would be fantastic.
 

Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2025, 10:28:14 pm »
So, some success. I received my long thin bits today and bending them in a vice gets results:



That's a PH00, easier to bend without breaking than the PH0 one. With this, these types of players can be reliably opened:



The second type of players still giving me grief are these:



Screws are even less accessible. Might not be able to unscrew them no matter what because of the tight space. With removing a tiny bit of interior plastic it should be possible, though. Here:




Interestingly, I got got one of those models with a cracked lid, making removal of the lid quite easy. They do not have an angled rim all around and bending the lid allows removal, but then the lid might crack.
 

Offline drhex

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2025, 03:19:37 pm »
Given they have the Sony "remove to open" arrow they need to come out. Still think the original analysis of half closed and spread is correct. If you have the lid off now you should be able to see how it is supposed to work?
 
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Offline Rooster CogburnTopic starter

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Re: Sony Discman D-FJ401 Repair (How do I open this thing?)
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2025, 06:10:05 pm »
Given they have the Sony "remove to open" arrow they need to come out.

Of course, you can't open either type of player without removing them. To be clear, I can now open the player this thread was about, works just fine with the bent bits. I'll get a blow torch and already ordered some more bits, maybe I can make them better when they're hot. Unfortunately all pre-existing angled screw drivers are crap, so DIY is the only option.

Still think the original analysis of half closed and spread is correct. If you have the lid off now you should be able to see how it is supposed to work?

It's pretty clear now how it's 'supposed' to work, having the lid off reveals no further insights. I can't make it work and would strongly recommend nobody tries to do it that way.

I've found a second model that has an even worse issue, see the second pair of players. I actually have a specimen with a repair attempt by a previous owner. Cracked the lid in half trying to remove it that way. Now it's really easy to get off and on ;D Just don't remove the lid. No reason to. Work around it.

I haven't had to open the second type of player yet for repair since all of mine work perfectly well and the one in need of repair was already open. I'm confident I can get it open one way or another without yanking the lid, but I won't try for now because I don't have to.

My conclusion is to simply never, ever remote the lid. And if you want to buy some cheap Discman for repair an don't want to deal with this crap, just avoid the 2 out of 100 models with this issues.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2025, 06:13:58 pm by Rooster Cogburn »
 


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