Author Topic: Tektronix TDS544A Repair  (Read 25634 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« on: April 13, 2013, 09:00:51 am »
Was browsing ebay last week and noticed a scope that took my interest, a semi-functional Tektronix TDS544A, 500MHz, 4 Channel, Colour CRT Oscilloscope. Won the auction and now await delivery. The seller listed the faults as "Very dim Screen - see photo", and "Scope not recognizing when probe is attached to any input". The first fault doesn't concern me too much as it has a VGA out so I can always connect the screen to an external monitor. The second is a bit more concerning. It would appear that channel one on the screen capture is sitting with a ~20V dc offset. I'm not very familiar with this scope and wonder if any sort of fancy probe detection is carried out. This fault would seem not to be related to recognition but  to be something failed in the analog input/capture stage. Any one have any thoughts or even schematics? I will post lots of nice pictures when the scope arrives. Looking forward to an interesting repair project. Hopefully this will be a nice upgrade in performance from the Rigol DS1052E (with the 100MHz upgrade)

Ebay Link:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/370790593983?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Simon
 

Online AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4298
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2013, 09:16:58 am »
The dim screen could be either a failing tube, a fault on the driver board, or a problem with the LCD shutter which sits in front of the CRT. There is a fairly easily accessible brightness pot inside the scope, accessible through a hole in the metalwork on the CRT side near the front. You just need to slide the outer cover back by a few inches to expose it.

As for the offset, this is more than likely a result of the leaky capacitor problem that this range suffers from. There are surface mount electrolytic caps on all the boards (acquisition, logic and front panel) which leak corrosive electrolyte onto the PCB. You'll need to remove them all, carefully to avoid lifting pads, then clean the board very thoroughly with a suitable solvent. If you're lucky, simply replacing all the caps with new ones will fix the problem. If not, you'll need to look around for components or PCB tracks & vias which have corroded, and perform whatever repairs are necessary.

The acquisition board is usually worst affected, since there are are more caps on this board than on the logic board, and they're closer to other components which can be damaged. Go round the whole of this board with a camera and photograph everything close-up before doing anything, you may well want to refer back to see which caps went where and what condition various parts are in.

The good news is that many of the components on this board are actually fairly generic op-amps and 74 series logic, which can be replaced as needed at minimal cost. Although there are some much bigger, unobtainable components too, they're generally located far enough away from the caps to avoid damage.

If you're lucky, you've got yourself a very good scope indeed at a bargain price. If not, I'm afraid it's a rather bulky paperweight - but still one which you might be able to break for parts and sell for spares once you've identified which bits are good and which are dead.

Offline ivan747

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2046
  • Country: us
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 12:16:25 pm »
If that is really the fault, then I'm really looking forward to this repair. I skip these kind of early DSO when browsing though eBay. There's too much that can go wrong. Failed EPROMs, dying CRT, damaged ASICs. Just look at Dave trying to fix that LeCroy oscilloscope.

Or sometimes you get lucky and just have to replace caps.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14060
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 12:23:58 pm »
If that is really the fault, then I'm really looking forward to this repair. I skip these kind of early DSO when browsing though eBay. There's too much that can go wrong. Failed EPROMs, dying CRT, damaged ASICs. Just look at Dave trying to fix that LeCroy oscilloscope.

Or sometimes you get lucky and just have to replace caps.
But the flipside is fixing it, having a 4ch 500MHz scope for peanuts & learning a lot on the way!
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28254
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 12:51:56 pm »
If that is really the fault, then I'm really looking forward to this repair. I skip these kind of early DSO when browsing though eBay. There's too much that can go wrong. Failed EPROMs, dying CRT, damaged ASICs. Just look at Dave trying to fix that LeCroy oscilloscope.

Or sometimes you get lucky and just have to replace caps.
On the Tektronix TDS500, 600 and 700 series you can't go wrong unless the display is bad. I have restored several. The problems with the leaking capacitors are well known and fixable. This scope doesn't seem to have a startup failure so chances are the capacitors didn't do any real damage yet. If you want to be safe its better to buy a scope from these series made after 1994.

There are 10uf and 33uf caps on the CPU, acquisition, front panel and I/O boards. What I do first is wash the board with a strong cleaner (like 'simple green' or 'st marc' paint cleaner. Look 'm up with Google and find something with the same ingredients) and a tooth-brush. Rinse with water and then clean with alcohol or ethanol. Then rinse with water and let it dry on a heater.

When removing the caps I mark the similar values first, remove the capacitors, place new ones and then do the same for the other value. Most capacitors are mounted in the same direction but some are reversed so look at the '+' signs on the boards.

While the boards are drying its a good time to clean the front panel, knobs, rubber key mats and housing. It will make you scope look like new. This is TDS544A I restored a couple of months ago (it had a bad CRT driver board and some problems caused by leaking capacitors but nothing that couldn't be fixed):

« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 01:09:53 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4298
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 01:18:33 pm »
Even if the display is terminal, there are LCD conversion kits available for these scopes. Generally I regard them as somewhat overpriced, but you might be able to develop your own for less if you're comfortable working with CPLDs.

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28254
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 01:44:06 pm »
I already did that:
https://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23147
Color is possible with about the same circuit:

There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7789
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 05:00:03 am »
An alternative to the LCD may be to to what Jose gavila did with a TDS524A.
The goo that holds the LCD "shutter" on the face of the tube had gone funny,& he successfully removed it &  refitted the shutter.
http://jvgavila.com/tds524a.htm
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28254
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 11:04:12 am »
Unless you have the 'aquarium with bubbles' effect you better leave the display as it is. If it ain't broken don't fix it.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7789
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 11:10:02 am »
To quote Jose'

"This was not visible without an strong front light, so I had not noticed it..."

If you just look at the screen without external illumination,you may miss it.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:12:32 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline Watermelon

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 11:26:23 am »
Don't power the scope up when you've got it, it could damage the scope because of all the bad caps in there. Replace ALL aluminum caps rated 10/33uF with new low-esr rated ones with voltage rating > 15V. The caps are on the aquisition board, logic cpu board and the front panel. None in the power supply. They use 10v rated caps on places were 15v is across the cap.  :palm:
When you've got the unit open, desolder and backup your NVRAM chip, it holds all the calibration data for 10 years minimum. I think it is a ds1250Y. Fit a chip socket in there and replace it with a new programmed NVRAM.
Like nctnico said: clean, clean and clean more. Then power it up.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:28:47 am by Watermelon »
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 08:28:28 am »
The Tek 544a turned up yesterday. I couldn't resist turning it on for a moment, and seeing for myself the error log. The Scope booted fine until the Diagnostic Log. Interestingly the screen seemed to be pretty much spot on, so that was nice surprise. Much nicer than the five year lcd at work. More concerning was that we had some diagnostic errors. In this case, Cal Initialization, Acq/Proc Interface, Acquisition, Attn/Acq Interface. The first I suspect is due to the Dallas DS1650Y failing, this is going to be a bit painful to fix I think. Any suggestions for a programmer/reader for this device would be very helpful.

Hopefully the other errors can be fixed with replacement of the electrolytic capacitors and corroded op-amps on the Acquisition board. Thankfully inspection of the PCB has shown that damage appears to be limited to fairly mainstream devices (read op-amps), with the acquisition ASICs looking fine.

The Scope appears to have been owned by the Department of Defence here in Australia, much like the equipment that Dave saw at the auction. It appears to be last Calibrated in 2003.

Digi-Key order for replacement op-amps, capacitors and Maxim 1250Y is on the way. Desoldering the DIP Dallas DS1650Y was pretty challenging without damaging anything, surface mount technology has made rework a lot easier.

Attached are a number of interesting photos.

(Edited to fix images)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 08:32:40 am by skennedy »
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 08:33:58 am »
More Images
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28254
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2013, 04:11:06 pm »
Don't bother with the Dallas NVRAM. First replace the capacitors! I'm afraid you will have to do some work on this scope (probably find broken vias and interrupted traces).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline vaualbus

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 381
  • Country: it
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 03:15:59 pm »
I've a TDS744D That don't show any waveform at all. It only show garbage wave on channel 2 & 4. What can cause that?
 

Offline techineer

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2014, 09:53:41 pm »
The dim screen could be either a failing tube, a fault on the driver board, or a problem with the LCD shutter which sits in front of the CRT. There is a fairly easily accessible brightness pot inside the scope, accessible through a hole in the metalwork on the CRT side near the front. You just need to slide the outer cover back by a few inches to expose it.

AndyC, you mention an LCD shutter.... can you provide more information on it?

I just received a TDS544A on an eBay auction.  The seller didn't indicate any problems with it, but it has an extremely dim display. 

When it arrived, there was a rattle inside, so I slid off the cover and found two loose screws inside.  Matched them up to a shield plate on the bottom.  Close inspection doesn't indicate any capacitor leakage, and no noticeable odor of fish or cat pee, so the caps _might_ be OK. 

Would like to figure out whether this is worth keeping or if I should send it back.

Thanks!

(Yes, I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but I think it's better to keep to a similar topic.
 

Offline nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28254
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2014, 10:48:15 pm »
The displays on these aren't bright because a lot of light is lost in the LCD shutter. You could try to increase the brightness like Andy suggests.

Here is more information on the LCD shutter technlogy:
http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Oscilloscope_makers_ride_the_color_bandwagon-article-OL3-apr1993-html.aspx
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4298
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2014, 06:35:31 am »
If the scope is working OK apart from the dim display, then you're in luck. It doesn't necessarily mean the caps are OK, though.

If they've been replaced in the past, then that's great. But if they haven't, then they will have leaked electrolyte onto the board, and it's just a matter of time before it does some damage.

If I were you I'd open up the scope and look for evidence that the caps have all been replaced. If they have, then enjoy your new scope - otherwise it's a job you need to do before the PCB gets damaged.

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7789
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2014, 10:45:21 am »
Have a look at posts 7 to 9 inclusive!
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 01:42:17 am »
I thought I should update progress on this repair as work and uni have got in the way for a fair while. After a lot of cleaning and replacing op-amps and shift registers the scope is looking a lot closer to being fixed. I purchased a Beiming USB to GPIB adapter which has helped a lot reading and, most importantly, clearing the error logs. I have identified that one of the P4C164-20JC CMOS 8K x 8 SRAM chips is dead. I can't easily locate these chips and wonder if an IDT-7164S20YG or IDT-7164S20YG8 which is at Mouser and Digi-Key would be a suitable replacement. They look almost identical in almost all of the specifications but have had some issues with RAM in the past

The remainder of the error log looks to be likely caused by the failed memory chip and default calibration settings in the new Dallas part.

:ERRLOG:FIRST "Sun 02-15-;5 16:30:34  ERROR: Cal meas clipped at max dig output,  DigD Imbalance cal"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:31:57  ERROR: Insufficient differential response, Preamp-Pipe gain characterization"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:31:57  ERROR: Insufficient differential response, Preamp-Pipe gain characterization"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:32:08  ERROR: Characterized values out of bounds, A/D biasing cal"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:32:08  ERROR: Characterized values out of bounds, Vertical"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:32:25  ERROR: 2260 Calibration failed, Triggers"
:ERRLOG:NEXT "Sun 02-15-;5 16:32:34  ERROR: 2260 Calibration failed, Repet Cal Failed"
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 01:43:52 am by skennedy »
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 06:23:40 am »
I have made some significant progress. Turns out the GPIB error log is invaluable to reading and clearing errors. A USB to GPIB dongle later I have fixed a lot.

I have fixed all of the ACQ/PROC Interface errors by replacing two of the P4C164 sram chips. I was able to find some from a US dealer for not too much.
I have also removed almost all of the signal path compensation errors to do with the acquisition system and believe that I have only one error left to do with the trigger system. Otherwise the scope is working as expected with four clean traces with pretty good accuracy even without being calibrated. Triggering is working fine for everything I have tested. I haven't been able to test above 15 MHz, where I am apparently going to see some issues, as I only have a 33120a to generate my signals.

This error is proving slightly more difficult to get fixed and seems to be quite cryptic. The error ERROR: diagnostic test failure, ctlConfidencDiag, ** 2.50e-9 <= exp <= 1.20e-8  actual= 0.00e-1 delay TI failed" looks like it is something to do with the Time Interpolators used for the equivalent time sampling mode (I hope this is what TI means). It seems that this has troubled a few people in the past and I have spent a couple of weeks trying to work it out.

Looking at the TDS520B service manual schematic I have worked out that components U16XX should be related to this. This area is very dense and entirely made up of LM311, TL072 and passives components. It was quite badly damaged by the electrolyte and I have spent a long time trying to repair it as best I can.

There is a thread from quite a long time ago on the TekScopes mailing list which suggests that I should have a 3.125MHz signal on U1050 and U1001 for a fraction of a second during startup. The trouble is that I have a 10Mhz signal and then a ~30kHz and I can't seem to work out what could be causing it or if the pin might be wrong.

Any one have any ideas? I really would like to have this scope conquered after all of this time and have enjoyed working out what everything does to work out if it needs reparing.
 

Offline Jwalling

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1517
  • Country: us
  • This is work?
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2015, 11:00:44 am »

Any one have any ideas? I really would like to have this scope conquered after all of this time and have enjoyed working out what everything does to work out if it needs reparing.

Did you clean all the boards and replace all the electrolytics? It is critical that this be done!

Jay
Jay

System error. Strike any user to continue.
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2015, 01:18:19 am »
I have cleaned everything heaps of times with simply green, IPA, de-ionized water and lot of scrubbing. All of the electrolytic caps have been replaced as have all of the TL074, TL072, 74HCT154 and LM311s as they are cheap enough just to replace.

Lifting chips and cleaning under them has yielded quite a lot of improvements particularly around the sample and hold circuitry. The residues picked up by the cleaning seems to have got stuck under chips causing issues. I have found a few damaged pads but so far the damage has been quite limited.

My major issue is that I'm not sure where I should be looking anymore for resolving this issue. Looking at the TDS520B service manual schematic I can see a basic overview of a possible Time Interpolation circuit. Equivalent time sampling seems to work ok on my scope so I am having issues working out what exactly I'm trying to fix.
 

Offline skennedyTopic starter

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 44
  • Country: au
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2015, 05:17:46 am »
I have fixed the ctlConfidencDiag error by fixing a damaged via under U1652 a TL072 opamp. The final error (hopefully) is looking at the output of a gamma comparator. I can't seem to find any information on this error anywhere. I am going to keep working through this error but if anyone has any experience it would be helpful. The location of the STRIGA testpoint would also be helpful. I am getting to the stage where lifting U1001 seems like a good option although this is going to be pretty complicated with so many pins.

The error code is:

ERROR: diagnostic test failure, logicTrigConfDiag, STRIGA must be HI when triggered, wasn't for gamma comparator"
 

Offline cncjerry

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Tektronix TDS544A Repair
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2015, 07:05:18 am »
once you have it working, you might be able to upgrade it all the way to a 784.  I was able to take my 744 up to a 784 adding option 1M along the way for free.  Remove a couple of zero ohm resistors, capacitors and make a ROM change is all you have to do.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf