Author Topic: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)  (Read 5619 times)

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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2018, 08:47:50 am »
Here's clipped front and back side (flipped horizontally). Opening these in two separate tabs and then switching between them should help with identifying the vias between both sides.
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2018, 03:29:04 pm »
OK, that was helpful. Q10 seems to track back to one leg of XFO1 via R40 and R41, its all taking us back up to that area with XFO1 and VR1, which all seem hooked up to that connector J_USB. It's starting to look like it looks for the USB connection before it pulls up that rail. so the next step is going to be hooking up the J_USB connector, and whatever is associated with it, and see if we get the rail powered. I suspect it looks for 5V from a USB connector, and if it doesn't see it, shuts off the rail. Whats the markings on that XFO1 component? I think we need to identify it too.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2018, 06:07:27 pm »
XFO1 is unmarked but it is some kind of mini-coil - both sides show windings.

I always connect both USB and 220v-to-PSU when powering up the board. Unless usb is connected the psu won't even switch on - it has some triac/opto switchboard inside. I probably should've told this earlier. :)
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2018, 11:08:45 pm »
 ;D It may have been helpful! still, I think we may have circled around the same components in the end.

I think I now need you to do some voltage readings with the power on - All round XFO1, R40 and R41, Q10 near the R100 resistor. And Q9 for the hell of it. I'm thinking one of them might be faulty. (Q9, Q10)
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2018, 06:48:37 am »
I updated the pic. All colors having voltage have it specified. Rest are dark.

 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2018, 12:03:54 am »
Is there anything around the motor driver IC at all? It's starting to look like it provides the powerline for the 3.3V rail converter, so now we need to figure out where it gets it's power from. Time to check that, and the 3 big components at the bottom of the board, TVS1 diode, the big resistor 472 printed on it (guessing it would be 4.7K), and the other component (Diode??)  I think these power the motor chip.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2018, 11:08:58 am »
Well, I'm afraid I'm kinda at the end of the road. I can't find the datasheet for VR31, I suspect it is an LDO,

>VR31 is "WR1 63".

PRTR5V0U2X USB protection and clamping, nothing to do with power

U4 (6 pin bno?U) pin 5 - where is it connected? does it have 26V?
and check c28 for short


at this point I would just remove U4 and inject 3.3v from external supply
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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2018, 08:25:53 pm »
Hi!

U4 pin5 goes to purple line.
No pin of U4 has meaningful voltage.
C28 is not shorted.

Resistor 472 is indeed 4.6K

I've updated the pic with voltages at several more locations.
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2018, 08:44:06 pm »
take that big component with 0.14V on one end off the board, then try and power up again. Make sure not to connect the motor. I'm thinking it might be a protection diode gone short.

Maybe even see if it gets hot with the power on, before you pull it.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2018, 08:51:36 pm »
It doesn't get hot. Btw I had it previously unsoldered on one end and it checked out ok - it was the X diode on that paper slip few posts back.

EDIT: just desoldered it and powered up the board - no noticeable change in behaviour.


I traced down one of the quiet electrolytic caps, see updated pic. Can't find the other one though. Found the other too - it is connected to the R100 (0ohm) resistor on the backside.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 09:30:51 pm by trez0r »
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2018, 10:34:18 pm »
ummm, next thing i'd try then is taking out the TVS1 diode. Something around there has got to be holding the power down. After that, I'd be thinking U3, the motor driver is faulty
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2018, 11:14:55 pm »
purple line means R45, "104" being 100k resistors, is shorted
measure U4 pin 5 resistance to ground
and find everything connected to this pin (purple) on the pcb, this is supply for 3.3 switching regulator, and its missing
I would even start with removing C28 (has a dark line across one joint, either dirt or crack)

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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2018, 01:20:34 pm »
Here's a new pic. :)
I've marked the pins on both U3 and U4. For U3 I used it's data sheet and for U4 I used this http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmr12010.pdf which seems close enough by the looks of it.
Dashed lines are connected through vias.

U4 pin5 to the ground is 200K - it can be observed that it has those 2x R104 on the way to gnd.
And those R104 are not shorted, the old pic was a bit misleading.
I repeat that C28 is not shorted as well.

TVS1 diode is fine - albeit the new pic shows 8v on both sides, in reality there was a voltage drop which I omitted.
I don't think driver chip U3 is a suspect yet. It gets supply of 25V and produces two nearly identical outputs of ~8v. It's vref is empty (this is the 3.3V lane) and it's inputs are also empty (because the main cpu is not powered, because the 3.3V lane is dead).


To be fair I fail to understand the logic of the board - how would U4 ever get any Vin unless there are some other connected points which I don't seem to be finding anywhere else on the board.
Q10 as soon as the USB 5V is connected, slashes the U3pin5 resistance-to-gnd in half - see green doted arrow in pic. Q9 - I fail to see the point of it at all - ground on the gate (when Q10 switches on), ground on the source too. What's the use? What do I not know? Oh, ok, it seems to disable U4 (by supplying gnd to EN), when the USB is not connected, so the 3.3V line stays dark.
Anyway it seems there really has to be another place from where the purple/U4 supply line gets voltage. Will try to find it again.
Any hints where to look at?
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 01:56:04 pm by trez0r »
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2018, 01:59:48 pm »
Can you do me a favour, and meter out C27, and C44. Is C44 cracked right across?? I cant tell if it's cracked or got debris on it. Same with C27, looks like it might be cracked top left corner, but it could just be a fibre laying on top.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2018, 02:15:17 pm »
I can only assure that they do not short. Visually under magnifying glass they look fine too. Sometimes I wish I had some better camera than just phone..
Also I went over both sides of the board and can't find anything else that connects to pin5 of U4..
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2018, 04:50:05 pm »
inject few volts into purple (with low current limit) and start going over everything with multimeter until you get a reading
or remove 4 elements connected to it and measure resistance to ground again, if zero then might be as weird as internal track broken

either way I wouldnt have this much patience, would just  solder $1 ebay 3.3V DC-DC converter  in place of U4 long time ago :)
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Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2018, 05:13:19 pm »
Right, I think I've almost got to grips with it. There's something wrong with the diode cluster underneath the board, and the resistor underneath should have 8V on either side of it. I think... Can you measure all the connection points of the diodes and resistor underneath? and also feel for heat? (might need to leave the power on a few mins). I suspect that resistor underneath will warm up, and possibly one of the diodes. D11??

If they do, I'd like to see the board with all the diodes underneath off. Do you have a pic of them from before you soldered them?
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2018, 07:21:00 pm »
Something strange is going on.
What previously on U3 was 24V and 8V now is 18V and 6V. And these keep oscillating slowly +/- few volts in a matter of several minutes. What is going on?
Anyways the resistor and diodes do not get warm even a bit.

Here's a pic of V measurements.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2018, 07:30:33 pm »
Rasz: How would you go about installing a separate dc-dc converter? Would cutting off trace from pin6 of U4 to inductor be enough to disregard it? Would you install the module before or after inductor? Would you take VIN from USB?
Would this one work?
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2018, 08:13:01 pm »
remove U4 with hotair, bodge regulator with flying wires, hotglue somewhere
one you linked is linear, but should be ok

but first check with lab supply, either remove U4 (or coil) and inject 3.3V, or if you are super double sure there is no voltage on purple and no short to ground then inject 5V there, either way set current limit to 100-200mA and go from there
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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2018, 08:34:20 pm »
If only I had lab supply.
The best I can do is 3.3V or 5V from a PC psu and use a 6-12ohm or 10-20ohm resistor to limit the current to 500-250mA.
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2018, 12:10:10 am »
ok, so that slow oscillating voltage goes somewhere we can't trace. it'll come out the Via's on the top side, middle top of U3, next to C27, and to an Isolated Via right under the R of R42, I can't see if it hops off anywhere. Anyway, it sent me wandering around the board for other clues - What's going on with R13, over near the crystal? Looks like the side nearest the Via isn't soldered too well. And the diagonally opposite side of the board near the power connector, see that Diode D5 I questioned way earlier? next to the 4 pin connector? Look close with a magnifier, one side isn't soldered, and it looks toasted. You need to replace that. And R5 needs the side nearest the 4 pin resoldered. I'd remove the plastic of the 4 pin again to do it, to save toasting it any more. Then we may move on to the diodes underneath. I need to figure out their job first, but they may be doing some voltage clamping of some sort.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2018, 04:13:29 pm »
If only I had lab supply.
The best I can do is 3.3V or 5V from a PC psu and use a 6-12ohm or 10-20ohm resistor to limit the current to 500-250mA.

injecting 3.3V should be mostly safe after lifting U4, injecting 5V might go bad without precautions, for example U4 can be bad, pass 5V to microcontroller and fry it
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Offline kabacis

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2018, 08:24:12 pm »
Decided to draw on whiteboard the part around DC-DC converter. It more or less matches what everyone wrote before.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2018, 11:52:22 am »
Sorry for getting back so late, had some priorities to attend to!

Kabacis is actually my work colleague and he conveniently had recently acquired a lab power supply..

We had some fun with it today and I think we done goofed now. :D

We injected voltage on "purple line" which is the U4 input and observed the voltage on the output after the coil which is the 3.3v line.
Around 10V the output came alive with around 1V on it.
Around 20V the output had ~1.5V which is close to the lower bound of lpc11u35f cpu operating voltage (1.8v-3.6v)
We decided to slowly approach the 25V which was probably the intended input voltage for the U4 to produce a working 3.3V line (1.8-3.6V really).
At around 24V the output was just under 2V and then something happened and the voltage was brought down while the amperes spiked to around 0.5A.
And that was it. Now the 3.3V line is short to the ground.
As a last resort we cut off the output trace of U4-to-coil and tried injecting some amperes to 3.3V line directly. All we got in return was CPU getting hotter the higher we went. Not sure why but it appears to be fried now.

Anyway thanks all for your time, It was fun (at least for me). :D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 11:56:33 am by trez0r »
 


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