Author Topic: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)  (Read 6082 times)

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Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2018, 04:03:54 pm »
 :( Sorry it turned out bad. To be fair, there was always the chance the micro-controller was already toasted, and that was why it wouldn't lift the powerline. And I hate the modern way that it's now technically junk, all because you can't get a new chip with the programming in it.

Anyway, it was a fun investigation at least.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2018, 07:19:09 pm »
I wholeheartedly agree.

Before I started hacking this piece I wrote several emails to TM support. The best they could do is paid RMA. That means sending the whole wheel set to France, paying for shipping there and back, paying for the work hours and parts. All in all an unattractive package which certainly does not make sense financially for a used wheel of this caliber.
They absolutely declined selling/sending only the motherboard, which is a shame because there are precedents in other forums where they have agreed on such move after a bugging them enough. And I really tried within staying polite..

Anyway, thank you again Les!
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2018, 12:17:43 am »
We injected voltage on "purple line" which is the U4 input and observed the voltage on the output after the coil which is the 3.3v line.
Around 10V the output came alive with around 1V on it.

as I said earlier: "if you are super double sure there is no voltage on purple and no short to ground then inject 5V there, either way set current limit to 100-200mA and go from there"
what made you inject >5 V??? "go from there" doesnt mean keep injecting more voltage :o, it means continue diagnosing. There is no situation possible where 3.3 DC-DC converter doesnt work at 5V, but starts working at 10V (other than it being faulty)

Around 20V the output

and you kept on going  |O

At around 24V the output was just under 2V and then something happened and the voltage was brought down while the amperes spiked to around 0.5A.
And that was it. Now the 3.3V line is short to the ground.

just as I wrote: "injecting 5V might go bad without precautions, for example U4 can be bad, pass 5V to microcontroller and fry it"

tldr either:
-you blew U4 and it passed 24V to the MCU
-or there was always short to ground on 3.3V rail

As a last resort we cut off the output trace of U4-to-coil and tried injecting some amperes to 3.3V line directly. All we got in return was CPU getting hotter the higher we went. Not sure why but it appears to be fried now.

That was supposed to be the _first_ thing to try :( At least it was a learning experience for you.
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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2018, 08:11:39 am »
Ok, yesterdays post may have been worded too lazy, sorry for that.
We weren't as reckless as it may have sounded from it.

There surely was not a short circuit on purple or 3V lines as it have been measured over and over again.
We started at 0V and near 0A. We incremented volts in small steps, and were especially careful around 3/5/25V bounds. Multimeter was attached to 3V line and constantly measuring the voltage as we were injecting on purple. 3V or 5V on purple didn't yield much on the output; We figured the U4 is most likely is a ~25/3V converter of sorts.
10V was were it crossed the 1V on output. At no point did the voltage on 3V line exceed 2V. We didn't touch amps at all, they were extremely low / not much more than maybe 10mA. At around 24V the voltage suddenly dropped to 0.5V and the amps went to 500mA.

I guess if we really did blow the U4 we wouldn't have noticed the voltage spike on output anyway. I will measure if input of U4 is shorted to output now.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 08:19:45 am by trez0r »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2018, 01:19:29 pm »
you wouldnt see the spike on multimeter due to slow update rate :(
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Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #55 on: May 31, 2018, 08:11:32 am »
I measured U4 and in/out on it is indeed now shorted. Rasz's guess of what went down was spot on it seems. :)
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2018, 06:22:37 am »
well shit, now I feel its my fault for even mentioning to you possibility of injecting anything before U4 :(
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Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2018, 09:24:17 am »
I wouldn't feel bad, It was a valid diagnostic move, there should have been voltage on that purple line.

1) It was faulty to begin with.
2) There's a good chance the Microcontroller was already toasted, and thats why it wouldn't lift the line.
3) It was at a point where it needed voltage injected to see what was going on.

I'd be interested to know the status of the diodes underneath the board. I wanted them removed, cos I had a suspicion they were pulling things down. My last suggestion was to remove them to see how the circuit was configured.

But what is done is done. We can't win them all, but we can learn things from it. The board might be toast, but we have gained knowledge. It's taken me a long time to get used to the idea that you can't fix everything. I think its in our DNA as repairers to try and rescue everything, but it just can't be done. So don't feel bad. Go rescue the next challenge.  :-+
 

Online james_s

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2018, 07:19:11 pm »
Keep an eye on ebay, maybe you can find a working unit in poor cosmetic condition from which you can salvage the PCB.
 

Offline trez0r

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2018, 06:32:03 pm »
Rasz, don't be silly, you were 100% spot on with your advice many posts earlier.

I can only blame myself (not that I do so much, as Les well put) for assuming that the u4 was a 10x step-down converter. To be fair it looked/measured much like it until it let out the magic smoke. :)

Some background. Turns out I'm a bit of a car-sim fan and wanted to upgrade from my old logitech driving force gt I've owned for some time. Meanwhile I thought I could save some money and also satisfy my cravings to tinker which I get from time to time. So I did some thrift shopping few months ago on ebay and in fact this wheel is just one out of three which I didn't manage to salvage. The other two were a step higher models - TM T300 with faulty pedals (a dirty pot which was just fine after cleaning) and TM TX with a much more sophisticated problem - the electric brushless motor magnetic core had come loose from the shaft and was messing up the calibration after a short while of usage. This sure was a bit harder to crack.

Anyway thanks everyone for input and opinion. I'll be back soon enough with the next problem to troubleshoot. ;)
 

Offline Czary

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2019, 06:12:07 am »
Hi, greetings from Poland.
Couple of days ago I've bought TM T150 wheel. Problem with mine is that it doesn't see any input (no wheel turn, no pedal input). The good point is, that it reports itself in Windows and I was able to do a succesful firmware upgrade.

I suspect faulty PSU- there is 4 pin DC output connector but I only got 25VDC on 2 pins while other 2 doesn't report any voltage. Is that correct ?

Best regards, Czarek.
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2019, 02:57:38 am »
Hi Czarek,

This was from a while ago, but if you look at the picture in the first post in this thread, you will see that trez0r helpfully marked voltages on the 4 pin connector. I believe you should have 25V and also 5V, the 5V possibly being derived from the USB connection, so you may have to test with it plugged into USB. I'd also check for a short on that 5V line, obviously with it unplugged and powered off. :)

Best of luck

Kind regards, Lesley
 

Offline Czary

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2019, 11:34:18 am »
Hi Lesley,
thank you very much for quick reply.
As trez0r posted earlier there is triac/opto switchboard inside the PSU. To switch the triac on we need 5VDC, but my PCB only generates 2.7-1.73VDC  :o

So far I've checked all FB's, voltages and ohms mentioned in the previous posts :

FB26: 2.7V
Q13: 2.7V(M), 5.05V(L), 2.7V(R)
D4: 5.05V(R)

C13,16,17,18: 24.6k
C21,22: 1k

Is that correct for Q13 ?
trez0r measurements was different for this component.

Also I've noticed that USB voltage always shows 5.05VDC while other points (FB26 or Q13(M)) showed 2.7VDC just to drop to 1.73VDC, after about one hour of PCB being powered by USB  :-//
 

Offline LateLesley

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Re: Thrustmaster T150 racing wheel pcb faulty (no voltage to cpu)
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2019, 03:15:29 am »
Hi Czarek,

To be honest I'm not sure, I dunno if it's maybe an in-line FET for a power rail, or something different. One check might be, does it get hot? If it does, it''s not necessarily dead, but something could be pulling the line down. I'd just try checking all the caps for shorts to start with, it is surprisingly common for them to fail. It took me ages to realise caps fail quite often.
 


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