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Hello all,
Even if this topic is a bit old, I'm posting here some news.
I found this blog and posts by chance, so I registered.
I'm one of the engineers who developped the Rom 5000/Rom 3000 devices. I don't take time to read all the posts, but perhaps I could help you on some topics, even if it's a very lod story. I don't have archives on the hardware parts, but I still have most of the sources of the software.
Should you be interested, let me know.
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Hello Papardelle !
Wow, thank you so much for stopping by, indeed !!
Information on these machines are so extremely rare that I will welcome absolutely ANYTHING you have up your sleeves !
You said you only have S/W left ? Were you a S/W engineer who developped said S/W ?
Or did you also work on the H/W and Firmware part of the project ?
Even if you did not, maybe you remember bits of information about the H/W, from discussions with your colleague at the coffee machine eh... so even though you don't have any HY/W related documents left, doesn't mean you are unable to help this the H/W side of things
How much data do you have related to this machine ? Could you upload it to some on-line storage facility ? A Google Drive or whatever people could access ?
this machine is very old so I doubt you will go to jail for sharing the information...
Maybe we could talk over the hone about this ?
It's more practical than typing long messages here maybe... less work at least.
I will send you a PM with my info...
BTW, in case you don't know, there is a French technical forum that also discusses the ROM 5000:
https://forum.system-cfg.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5743
It's 10 year old and only 8 pages long.
This was the only place on the web that I found, that talked about this machine.... it helped me start on my project, and I eventually realised that my 3000 was technically the same machine as the 5000, just headless. I introduced my ROM 3000 on page #5. It appears I am the only one who own a 3000 models, the other guys on that forum have 5000, lucky them !
Then I created my own page here on EEVBlog about my ROM 3000, to document and archive all my work on it. For now I am the reverse engineering phase... so any help you can provide will be helpful.
Don't worry I am not going to bombard you with questions...
For now, my main problem is to get a proper video display from the internal video output, as it appears to use a proprietary protocol. Using a CGA adapter I can get "something", but it's not 100% perfect : the display rolls over the top by a few lines, and I also thing that a couple lines from the bottom aprt of the screen , are missing... which is annoying as these are the lines that display boot error codes... so I need to get these lines back to help me fix this machine...
I have not worked on this machine for well over a year, judging by the time stamp of my latest message here... shame on me.
Thing is, I have so many other projects going on, electronics related or not....
But OK, I will try to prioritize this project and put it back on the bench !!!
Thanks again for lending a hand, much appreciated !
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I'd like to have a source code, if possible.
After some reading I could give some educated guesses for why and how.
Maybe also a new function or two would be possible.
E,
Link to 15kHz monitors
https://15khz.net/
Other possibility is to lift the status line.
Since we have access to source we can dig up the byte where vertical position of status line is selected.
You can always program new zeros to EPROM, so least significant 1 to 0 and status line goes higher.
That change is also so simple that it can be made on the field, so to speak.
Just connect all pins and finally do a single address programming.
Better make a backup first.
Maybe the previous become a bit moot at that point.
Origo is many times low left.
Can't remember for sure, but recollection is that this picture is text line based.
For graphical representation this zeroing may not work.
With source that is not a problem, but new ROM is a must, I can send if old image is somewhere, can't remember. -
That's unbelievable that some people around the world is interested by this old machine! That's electropaleontology...
Let me some time to find and gather the information I could have...
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"The bad news : it IS indeed French ! ". It is funny.
Yes, it's french!
You really did a huge job, I wonder if I have anything else to help you.
The ROM5000 is a device programmer, and we spent years to add more and more programmable devices to the library. In the last decades of the XXth century, there were so many new devices!
The ROM3000 is a version of the ROM5000, without screen and keyboard, as at the time many customers asked for a remote controlled programmer instead of a stand alone.
But both machine share the same remote control.
Some documentation is available at:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/chlg8mkwc6mq4fy08w54y/ROM5000.zip?rlkey=c6hp39l33jwonsr6ax70jg43a&st=fjmag1lf&dl=0
- Logiciel du ROM 5000: a short guide to new developpers working on this device programmer. It's written in french, let me know if you need a translation. It contains a memory map of the ROM 5000, you may find it of some interest.
- User Manual for ROM5000
- sources: source files for the ROM5000. 6502 assembler. That's a jungle. All comments in french. For video part, see VIDxxx. I doubt you find anything useful.
- map.zip : The 6502 have 64 Kb adressable, that's not enough. Addresses from 4000 to 7FFF are mapped, so depending on the device to be programmed, a 'map' is selected to adress the correct page. This allow to extend the adressable space.
Unfortunately, no hardware documentation.
The disks are not PC compatible, as far as I remember the size of the sector differs (256 vs 512), but I know there was an utility to read or write ROM 5000 disks on the PC.
About Micropross: I joined Micropross a few month after it has been created, I learned at the same university that the founder. Micropross was really a small company, and when the ROM 5000 has been designed (1985), the company should be 12 people or around. We never were more than 50 people.
About the video: Yes, there is a character generator, I remember I filled the PROM by myself, even designing my own characters (Micropross logo for example)!
Two UARTS: one is for remote control, the second one is to connect the development system which will send the data to be programmed.
"Littered with gigantic horrific spelling mistakes,": Indeed. One of the technician was unable to write correctly... except for 6502! He was probably our best programmer, so we don't worry about the mistakes.
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Wow, sorry for the late replay Papardelle !
Been very busy here the recent days... calming down now.
Thanks a lot for the documentation !
The user manual and programers' guide I already had, but the source code and very detailed maps on the system disk, I didn't have !You really did a huge job, I wonder if I have anything else to help you.
Maybe you do ! Who knows... please stick around, subscribe to this topic and watch my progress (hopefully there will be some
).
Maybe you can help here and there along the way...
I would hate for you to disappear now ! It's a miracle enough that you posted here to help me... let's make this miracle last as long as possibe... stay with me in this journey ! It's not like it will take you much time to 'handle" is it... a few messages here and there that's all.The ROM3000 is a version of the ROM5000, without screen and keyboard, as at the time many customers asked for a remote controlled programmer instead of a stand alone.
That's very interesting right there Papardelle !
I mean, I assumed the 300 was a cut down / cheaper version, hence I was afraid it would lack some features/ functionalities compared to the 5000, hence that the 500 user manual might not apply 100%.
But if the 3000 is nothing like that as you say, then I understand it offers 100% the same features as the 5000.... so far I was only HOPING it might be the case, when I saw that my 3000, with NO boot dist in the floppy drive, would display "ROM 5000" on the screen rather than ROM 3000...
But now looks like it's not a hope/supposition anymore, but rather a fact !
That's incredible news !
I can then rely on the 5000 user manual !But both machine share the same remote control.
Fantastic once again ! I can rely on the 5000 programming guide there too then !- Logiciel du ROM 5000: a short guide to new developpers working on this device programmer. It's written in french, let me know if you need a translation. It contains a memory map of the ROM 5000, you may find it of some interest.
No need for translation, I am French as my avatar suggests
- sources: source files for the ROM5000. 6502 assembler. That's a jungle. All comments in french. For video part, see VIDxxx. I doubt you find anything useful.
It's a GEM !
It's incredible to be abel to read the commented source code all you people wrote for this machine back in the day !
Reading through thoses source files feels like I was there 30 years ago next to you, watching type the code and chatting with you about it, so incredible !!
The in-line comments and also the comments in the change log at the top of the files, just crack me up, you guys had some sense iof humor, never a boring source file !!!
I particularly one file that implemented some memory chip. An entry in change log was like "Trying ti implement that new XX chip from XX Mfg, it's a pain in the ass I can't get it to work, I GIVE UP ! If you want to give it a try GOOD LUCK ! "
Something like that !The disks are not PC compatible, as far as I remember the size of the sector differs (256 vs 512), but I know there was an utility to read or write ROM 5000 disks on the PC.
Yes indeed that was it. I have a document Word called "Overlay" that talks about it, and explains how to map the last 4 maps into memory.
I also have the C source code for the utilities you describe.About Micropross: I joined Micropross a few month after it has been created, I learned at the same university that the founder. Micropross was really a small company, and when the ROM 5000 has been designed (1985), the company should be 12 people or around. We never were more than 50 people.
Wow, designing such a complex machine and with so much assembly code... I find it quite an achievement for such a small team !
You people must have been very motivated !!Two UARTS: one is for remote control, the second one is to connect the development system which will send the data to be programmed.
Thanks for that ! I was wondering what the second port was for.
All I could see was that the UART chip in the machine, according its datasheet, featured a SINGLE serial port... so I assumed the CPU had to multiplex the two ports, hence it could only use one or the other, but not both at the same time.
So to sum it up.. thank you so much Papardelle !
Please stay with me in the coming months as I resume work on this lovely machine.....now that I found you, I don't want to let you go away !
So, I will try to resume work onit real fast.
The first thing I need is to figure out a way to get a proper display, since my EGA/VGA arcade game adapter gives me "some" picture, but not 100% correct.
Oh, question about the source code : it looks like it's the code only for the system/boot disk right ? You don't have the code for the CPU itself, I mean the firmware inside the CPU' EPROM chip ?
Code Jungle ? Yes indeed, 404 files total !
However, I am not deterred... just yet.
I see that many files are duplicates : one is for French language, and then there is one for English language.
So I guess teh brings it down from 400 to 200+ files, much better eh ?!
Then I will try sort these 200 files further. I will open them up one by one.
I will find all those that correspond to programming specific chips, and set them aside.
That will bring the count down to maybe 50 files left... then those 50 I will try to understand what they do and further sort them.