| Electronics > Repair |
| Vintage chip Programmer : " Micropross ROM 3000U " |
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| Vince:
Wow, sorry for the late replay Papardelle ! :scared: Been very busy here the recent days... calming down now. Thanks a lot for the documentation ! :-+ The user manual and programers' guide I already had, but the source code and very detailed maps on the system disk, I didn't have ! :-+ --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---You really did a huge job, I wonder if I have anything else to help you. --- End quote --- Maybe you do ! Who knows... please stick around, subscribe to this topic and watch my progress (hopefully there will be some :-DD). Maybe you can help here and there along the way... I would hate for you to disappear now ! It's a miracle enough that you posted here to help me... let's make this miracle last as long as possibe... stay with me in this journey ! It's not like it will take you much time to 'handle" is it... a few messages here and there that's all. --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---The ROM3000 is a version of the ROM5000, without screen and keyboard, as at the time many customers asked for a remote controlled programmer instead of a stand alone. --- End quote --- That's very interesting right there Papardelle ! :-+ I mean, I assumed the 300 was a cut down / cheaper version, hence I was afraid it would lack some features/ functionalities compared to the 5000, hence that the 500 user manual might not apply 100%. But if the 3000 is nothing like that as you say, then I understand it offers 100% the same features as the 5000.... so far I was only HOPING it might be the case, when I saw that my 3000, with NO boot dist in the floppy drive, would display "ROM 5000" on the screen rather than ROM 3000... But now looks like it's not a hope/supposition anymore, but rather a fact ! :D That's incredible news ! :D I can then rely on the 5000 user manual ! 8) --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---But both machine share the same remote control. --- End quote --- Fantastic once again ! I can rely on the 5000 programming guide there too then ! :D --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---- Logiciel du ROM 5000: a short guide to new developpers working on this device programmer. It's written in french, let me know if you need a translation. It contains a memory map of the ROM 5000, you may find it of some interest. --- End quote --- No need for translation, I am French as my avatar suggests ;) --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---- sources: source files for the ROM5000. 6502 assembler. That's a jungle. All comments in french. For video part, see VIDxxx. I doubt you find anything useful. --- End quote --- It's a GEM ! :-+ It's incredible to be abel to read the commented source code all you people wrote for this machine back in the day ! Reading through thoses source files feels like I was there 30 years ago next to you, watching type the code and chatting with you about it, so incredible !! The in-line comments and also the comments in the change log at the top of the files, just crack me up, you guys had some sense iof humor, never a boring source file !!! I particularly one file that implemented some memory chip. An entry in change log was like "Trying ti implement that new XX chip from XX Mfg, it's a pain in the ass I can't get it to work, I GIVE UP ! If you want to give it a try GOOD LUCK ! " Something like that ! :-DD --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---The disks are not PC compatible, as far as I remember the size of the sector differs (256 vs 512), but I know there was an utility to read or write ROM 5000 disks on the PC. --- End quote --- Yes indeed that was it. I have a document Word called "Overlay" that talks about it, and explains how to map the last 4 maps into memory. I also have the C source code for the utilities you describe. --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---About Micropross: I joined Micropross a few month after it has been created, I learned at the same university that the founder. Micropross was really a small company, and when the ROM 5000 has been designed (1985), the company should be 12 people or around. We never were more than 50 people. --- End quote --- Wow, designing such a complex machine and with so much assembly code... I find it quite an achievement for such a small team ! You people must have been very motivated !! :-+ --- Quote from: papardelle on May 06, 2024, 02:32:13 pm ---Two UARTS: one is for remote control, the second one is to connect the development system which will send the data to be programmed. --- End quote --- Thanks for that ! I was wondering what the second port was for. All I could see was that the UART chip in the machine, according its datasheet, featured a SINGLE serial port... so I assumed the CPU had to multiplex the two ports, hence it could only use one or the other, but not both at the same time. So to sum it up.. thank you so much Papardelle ! :-+ Please stay with me in the coming months as I resume work on this lovely machine.....now that I found you, I don't want to let you go away ! ;D So, I will try to resume work onit real fast. The first thing I need is to figure out a way to get a proper display, since my EGA/VGA arcade game adapter gives me "some" picture, but not 100% correct. Oh, question about the source code : it looks like it's the code only for the system/boot disk right ? You don't have the code for the CPU itself, I mean the firmware inside the CPU' EPROM chip ? Code Jungle ? Yes indeed, 404 files total ! :o However, I am not deterred... just yet. I see that many files are duplicates : one is for French language, and then there is one for English language. So I guess teh brings it down from 400 to 200+ files, much better eh ?! :) Then I will try sort these 200 files further. I will open them up one by one. I will find all those that correspond to programming specific chips, and set them aside. That will bring the count down to maybe 50 files left... then those 50 I will try to understand what they do and further sort them. |
| papardelle:
Hi Vince & all, I'm sorry I don't visit this blog more often. Perhaps I could let you my email, if you have urgent requests. Is it safe to post it here? In your post #163, you see an emulator on the ROM5000. It is not an emulator. Let me tell the story. In the early eighties, Micropross developped a gang programmer very easy to use only two push buttons for all operations. Eight sockets, each of them can be a source or a target. You can copy one EPROM to 7 others, or a set of two to 3 set of two, or a set of four to another set of four. You can choose from 2516, 2716, 2532, 2732, 2764, 27128. That was the ROM2000, our first step in the programming devices world. Then we developped the ROM5000, which programmed not only EPROMs, but also bipolar PROMs, which all have different programming algorithms. The first version should support perhaps thirty to fifty different devices. The ROM 5000 had a small magnetic tape used as mass storage. More and more programmable devices coming on the market, so we developped the ROM 5000 D, the D stands for Disk, which replaced the magnetic tape. The programming module is now removable to accomodate SMD devices or exotic pinouts. EPROMS on DIP socket were not allowed in sensitive applications, like high-speed train or Airbus, the EPROM are soldered directly on the PCB. So to program the devices, you must use the signals available on the connector, that is in-situ programming. That is what you see on the picture in your post #163, the board on the module is a board embedded in the TGV, french high speed train. But in this case, the programming algorithm must accomodate the specific hardware of the board to be programmed. We invented a description of the board the user can use to develop its own programming algorithm (it has been accepted as a standard for avionics as ARINC 614 standard). This language was ULIS (Universal Language for In Situ) More and more demand for in-situ programming, thus we developped in-situ programmers, the PRECIS range: Precis B for boards, Precis M for modules (OBRM in avionics), Precis S for small boards, Precis Z for ... smart cards, with a new language inspired by the Basic, ULIS B! Indeed, smart cards manufacturers were looking for a programmer were they could define their own programming algorithm, for confidentiality reasons. More and more demand for smart cards programmers, thus we developped the STAR range, dedicated to contact smart cards. Then the smartcards became contactless, we developped the CLASS range to test and program contactless smart cards and micro-modules. More and more involved in the test of contact and contactless devices, Micropross developped the software around our hardware to test the interoperability of all contact and contactless cards and readers. Thus, this lead us to test also mobile phones and our products have been implemented at all major mobile phones manufacturers. That's all, folks! I found a box with some programmable devices, they may be blank, programmed, or destroyed. Are you interested? There are mainly EPROMS, from 2516 to 27C400, some EEPROMs, two one chip (87C51 and the famous 68705, which need a full story!), a few PALs (10L8, 20RA10, 22V10 etc) and PROMs (24S10, 74LS123, etc), also some SMD devices (MACH 210, EPM5032). Let me know if you need it. |
| m k:
I'm quite sure I can find a place for 14S10. |
| Vince:
Hi Papardelle, sorry again for the delay ! :-[ --- Quote from: papardelle on May 27, 2024, 02:36:25 pm ---I'm sorry I don't visit this blog more often. --- End quote --- Oh, what you can do is click on the little "Notify" button at the bottom of the page. This way you won't have to visit the forum all the time to check for nex messages here : instead you will receive a notification e-mail automatically whenever there is something new to read on this topic ! Zero overhead ! 8) --- Quote from: papardelle on May 27, 2024, 02:36:25 pm ---Perhaps I could let you my email, if you have urgent requests. Is it safe to post it here? --- End quote --- No don't post your e-mail here, anyone could read it, including Google bots, ChatGPT and the Russian bots, bad things could happen ! :-DD However private messages is fine : I will send you one in a minute as soon as I am done writing this message. We can then exchange e-mails this way. --- Quote from: papardelle on May 27, 2024, 02:36:25 pm ---In your post #163, you see an emulator on the ROM5000. It is not an emulator. Let me tell the story. --- End quote --- WOW ! Thanks for the memories and history of the company, that was fascinating !! :D See ? I knew you had much more to share than you originally thought ! ;) It's funny that your colleague who wrote that programmer's guide, used that TGV board to illustrate the cover page, rather than, say, the HP 64K system that was used to develop the system. --- Quote from: papardelle on May 27, 2024, 02:36:25 pm ---In the early eighties, Micropross developped a gang programmer [..] That was the ROM2000, our first step in the programming devices world. --- End quote --- OH ! That's interesting again ! On the other / French forum, system-cfg.com, on the ROM 5000 topic, there is a guy who said he bought a ROM2700 ! https://forum.system-cfg.com/viewtopic.php?p=220620#p220620 It looks really like a nice machine ! I just love the big keys, they don't make them like this anymore ! :( Looks like this ROM2700 is a more modern version/development of the ROM200 ? It's got an LCD display and a comprehensive keypad, and the owner says that the machine came with a CD-ROM containing the S/W to transfer data from a computer to the programmer. --- Quote from: papardelle on May 27, 2024, 02:36:25 pm ---I found a box with some programmable devices, they may be blank, programmed, or destroyed. Are you interested? There are mainly EPROMS, from 2516 to 27C400, some EEPROMs, two one chip (87C51 and the famous 68705, which need a full story!), a few PALs (10L8, 20RA10, 22V10 etc) and PROMs (24S10, 74LS123, etc), also some SMD devices (MACH 210, EPM5032). Let me know if you need it. --- End quote --- Oh wow yes, I sure want them ! I just love any and all programmable devices !!! :D It will be super cool to have a variety of devices to test on my ROM3000 once I get it to work ! 8) MK can have the 14S10 if he wants... if I ever need some he will just send some back my way ! ;D I don't even know what the 14S10 is.. Google can't find a (relevant) datasheet for it... but if MK wants them so bad, I guess it's some rare, unobtainium chip that must be used in some machine that people are still interested today ! An old arcade machine or vintage computer MK ?? |
| coromonadalix:
have you recovered the available files on this french forum ? I'm native french attached here |
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